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what do you think?
- Thread starter Bill- Brooklyn
- Start date
Montauklax
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
I think it's a gimmick that will sell to guys who can't accept that fishing is a blood sport. Barbless j hooks work just fine in my opinion.
That being said, fish get hooked, occasionally bleed, and sometimes fish die even when practicing responsible C&R.
That being said, fish get hooked, occasionally bleed, and sometimes fish die even when practicing responsible C&R.
trico mike
make mine wild
Snagging pure and simple. What if the fish bumps the fly but doesn't take it the trailer hook still gets it. These guys are idiots. What ever happened to the traditional way of catching fish. You could give me a glow bug and visible steelhead and I could hook one near the mouth every time but it is still SNAGGING. The Moffit system should JUST GO AWAY:finger:
Stimulan
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
read the fine print.DRY FLIES
Moffitt dry flies are in their final phase of testing but are currently not available for purchase. As soon as we are confident that the Moffitt dry flies comply with our rigid quality standards, they will be added to our product catalog.
Moffitt dry flies are in their final phase of testing but are currently not available for purchase. As soon as we are confident that the Moffitt dry flies comply with our rigid quality standards, they will be added to our product catalog.
atun_fish_on
Tight Lines
:down: Barbless hooks would do the same thing.
Broadheadscreek
Proud Member Of The 10% Club
May as well be fishing with beads the same way they do on the Salmon River exact same thing snagging. Snagging by any other name would still be well SNAGGING!If you are concerned with a badly hooked trout or steelhead cut the leader you can always replace the fly do it all the time and just tie on another fly.
coloradoguide
New member
Sorry guys gonna have to completely disagree on this one. Having used the alaska bead technique on lake erie tribs for years i can tell you that this method is very effective and is a must for multiple fly rigs which would otherwise include a glowbug or other egg pattern. The moffet deal is a little overkill and i wont change to it, but think about this:
The average "in the know" fly fisherman in steelhead alley runs a rig with a gloe bug or sucker spawn and some type of nymph or bugger behind it as a dropper. This equals two hooks. I run a bead knotted onto the tippet 2 inches from a single nymph. NO BARE HOOK, no multiple hooks. Now i have a killer, no comparison egg pattern in front of my nymph which is tied on a straight shank or octopus hook. I use indicators as my clients are not typically capable of sight fishing without pulling the trigger too early and fouling fish.
I have seen the number of foul hooked fish cut by at least 50%.
Most lodges in alaska REQUIRE this rigging method to eliminate foul hooked and deep hooked fish, especially catch and release lodges.
No fish is EVER hooked too deep using this method.
This tactic was built with catch and release in mind.
I am sure that this thread is going to start a battle, and i am not into that. I have seen this method work as it was envisioned and result in less fouled fish. Preventing foul hooking is not easy when your average target is 5-9 lbs and your client has never seen a fish that big in a river in his life.
If the fish eats the bead, or fly for that matter then how is it snagging?
The average "in the know" fly fisherman in steelhead alley runs a rig with a gloe bug or sucker spawn and some type of nymph or bugger behind it as a dropper. This equals two hooks. I run a bead knotted onto the tippet 2 inches from a single nymph. NO BARE HOOK, no multiple hooks. Now i have a killer, no comparison egg pattern in front of my nymph which is tied on a straight shank or octopus hook. I use indicators as my clients are not typically capable of sight fishing without pulling the trigger too early and fouling fish.
I have seen the number of foul hooked fish cut by at least 50%.
Most lodges in alaska REQUIRE this rigging method to eliminate foul hooked and deep hooked fish, especially catch and release lodges.
No fish is EVER hooked too deep using this method.
This tactic was built with catch and release in mind.
I am sure that this thread is going to start a battle, and i am not into that. I have seen this method work as it was envisioned and result in less fouled fish. Preventing foul hooking is not easy when your average target is 5-9 lbs and your client has never seen a fish that big in a river in his life.
If the fish eats the bead, or fly for that matter then how is it snagging?
Trout Nazi
And...Boom goes the dynamite.
Personally can't see how using a barbless would not achieve the same result. But more importantly to me, I like to tie, and this seems to take that away. Or require another capital expenditure into a whole other tying setup. I'll pass.
Broadheadscreek
Proud Member Of The 10% Club
I prefer to catch Steelhead on a fly not a plastic bead. If you fish a fly properly and the fish takes it 99% of the time it is hooked in a manner that the hook can be removed safely and if I see it won't come out with out harm I cut it off and retie. Besides that are we fly fishing or bead fishing?
trico mike
make mine wild
I also fish 2 fly rigs on erie tribs but the distance between the flies is about 12 inches. It's more to give the fish a choice and find out what they want not to catch ( snag ) the fish with the trailer hook. With the rig I use foul hooked fish are few and far between. I also only use this method in high or stained water. If the water is good I'd rather be swinging soft hackles.
I'm not planning to use it but I got no problem with it. To me it's not really snagging, it's fishing with a lure/fly but just a different presentation & hooking method. I've hooked fish with th trailing fly that refused the point fly using a traditional tandem rig so that argument against isn't too strong.
MoffittAngling
New member
Hey guys, it was recently brought to my attention this discussion regarding the Moffitt System. In the interest of full disclosure, I work for Moffitt Angling and have been using the system since it's development. This is a great website you have here, and it is nice to see a site where people are entitled to their opinions and express them in a civil manner. With that being said, I would like to clarify some points that certain posters made regarding this system.
1.It is a gimmick to sell to people who can't accept fishing as a blood sport: In certain respects, the notion that fishing is a blood sport is true. However with a commonly accepted mortality rate of 3-5% per catch event, and some locations (such as Yellowstone), where fish are caught upwards of 10 times per season, we are looking at nearly a 50% mortality rate per season on trout. A trout hooked in the tongue, through the roof of the mouth, the gill arch or the eye all have an elevated mortality rate. We understand that fish will die despite the best intentions of fishermen, this does not, however, mean we cannot work to make this number as small as possible. Through the use of a barbless circle hook, however, we have made it virtually impossible to hook fish in these vital areas, and have thousands of data points as our basis. The analysis of our data is available on our website.
2. The notion that it is snagging: The barb of a circle hook is at a 90 degree angle to the shank. A circle hook needs to hit an edge and roll in order to engage--the body of a fish simply does not provide an edge. The jaw, however, does. When a fish takes the fly, and angler sets the hook as they would using a traditional fly, allowing the hook to make contact with the outer jaw and roll into place. We have used this system with nymphs, dries and streamers--I would think most here would agree that snagging using a dry fly would be impossible.
It would be foolish to say we have never foul hooked a fish using our system--it happens when you nymph fish. We have, however, not noticed an increase in foul-hooked fishing using our system to fishing a single nymph and we have noticed a decrease from using multi-fly rigs.
3. It's the same as bead fishing: While there are similarities, there are also a number of differences. First, and most importantly, the Moffitt System utilizes a circle hook as opposed to a j-hook. A j-hook stabs the first point it comes into contact with, allowing it hook a fish anywhere, indiscriminately. As mentioned previously, a circle hook needs an 'edge' to engage, thus limiting where the fish can be hooked to the jaw. Additionally, we can tie any pattern you can tie on a hook on our fly cores--including dries and streamers--with bead fishing, you are limited to egg patterns. Finally, when bead fishing, you need to break the line to change your pattern. With our system you simply loop flies on and off which cuts down on the number of knots you need to tie.
4. Someone mentioned that they prefer to tie their own flies and we take that away: We feel that tying is an important element of fly fishing and would never want to take that away. We are currently running a BETA test with tyers of all skill levels. Depending on the success of this test, we will be have fly cores available for those who tie.
5.99% of fish are hooked in a manner that the hook can be removed: Just because a hook can be removed does not necessarily mean that that fish will survive. A tongue hooked fish has an 18% mortality rate, and while it will swim away, there is a fairly good chance that fish will die. If you spend enough time on heavily fished waters, you will see a fair share of dead fish. While some of this is due to rough handling, fish can still suffer fatal wounds from the hook placement. One of the biggest places we see this is on the South Branch of the Raritan--you don't know if your next cast will lead to a 5' wild brown or a 18" inch holdover--a small fish taking a large fly often has an adverse effect on that fish's survival. By separating the hook from fly, you can fish large flies with smaller hooks--eliminating small fish that have streamers down their throat, or the point of the hook through the roof of the mouth or the eye.
If anyone would like to discuss this further, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
1.It is a gimmick to sell to people who can't accept fishing as a blood sport: In certain respects, the notion that fishing is a blood sport is true. However with a commonly accepted mortality rate of 3-5% per catch event, and some locations (such as Yellowstone), where fish are caught upwards of 10 times per season, we are looking at nearly a 50% mortality rate per season on trout. A trout hooked in the tongue, through the roof of the mouth, the gill arch or the eye all have an elevated mortality rate. We understand that fish will die despite the best intentions of fishermen, this does not, however, mean we cannot work to make this number as small as possible. Through the use of a barbless circle hook, however, we have made it virtually impossible to hook fish in these vital areas, and have thousands of data points as our basis. The analysis of our data is available on our website.
2. The notion that it is snagging: The barb of a circle hook is at a 90 degree angle to the shank. A circle hook needs to hit an edge and roll in order to engage--the body of a fish simply does not provide an edge. The jaw, however, does. When a fish takes the fly, and angler sets the hook as they would using a traditional fly, allowing the hook to make contact with the outer jaw and roll into place. We have used this system with nymphs, dries and streamers--I would think most here would agree that snagging using a dry fly would be impossible.
It would be foolish to say we have never foul hooked a fish using our system--it happens when you nymph fish. We have, however, not noticed an increase in foul-hooked fishing using our system to fishing a single nymph and we have noticed a decrease from using multi-fly rigs.
3. It's the same as bead fishing: While there are similarities, there are also a number of differences. First, and most importantly, the Moffitt System utilizes a circle hook as opposed to a j-hook. A j-hook stabs the first point it comes into contact with, allowing it hook a fish anywhere, indiscriminately. As mentioned previously, a circle hook needs an 'edge' to engage, thus limiting where the fish can be hooked to the jaw. Additionally, we can tie any pattern you can tie on a hook on our fly cores--including dries and streamers--with bead fishing, you are limited to egg patterns. Finally, when bead fishing, you need to break the line to change your pattern. With our system you simply loop flies on and off which cuts down on the number of knots you need to tie.
4. Someone mentioned that they prefer to tie their own flies and we take that away: We feel that tying is an important element of fly fishing and would never want to take that away. We are currently running a BETA test with tyers of all skill levels. Depending on the success of this test, we will be have fly cores available for those who tie.
5.99% of fish are hooked in a manner that the hook can be removed: Just because a hook can be removed does not necessarily mean that that fish will survive. A tongue hooked fish has an 18% mortality rate, and while it will swim away, there is a fairly good chance that fish will die. If you spend enough time on heavily fished waters, you will see a fair share of dead fish. While some of this is due to rough handling, fish can still suffer fatal wounds from the hook placement. One of the biggest places we see this is on the South Branch of the Raritan--you don't know if your next cast will lead to a 5' wild brown or a 18" inch holdover--a small fish taking a large fly often has an adverse effect on that fish's survival. By separating the hook from fly, you can fish large flies with smaller hooks--eliminating small fish that have streamers down their throat, or the point of the hook through the roof of the mouth or the eye.
If anyone would like to discuss this further, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
I see those charlatans are back.
That is not fly fishing.
That is actually LINING.
FOR SALE Special design sponges.
Why spend time tying flies. They only cost big bucks, and when swallowed KILL harmless trout.
Coloured sponges specially designed to work with the Profit System.
Tested on The South Branch of the Delaware River it has been proven to reduce fish kill by 92.4% compared to the use of dynamite while fishing.
The special circle hook grabs the trout without it ever knowing what hit it. Thus rendering it harmless and docile making landing so much easier for the fish.
To revive the fish after a short quick painful extraction from the gill plates revives the trout to it normal fear of death behaviour of thrashing itself on the rocks.
The Profit System comes in many colours... the three most popular being blood red, death white, and guts pink.
So the next time that 24 inch Brown Trout refuses to even look at your Quill Gordon...
Hook on the Profit System.... slide that special sponge attachment right by that fussy trout... and then hold on.
Remember, with the Profit System.. keep that camera close by!
That is not fly fishing.
That is actually LINING.
FOR SALE Special design sponges.
Why spend time tying flies. They only cost big bucks, and when swallowed KILL harmless trout.
Coloured sponges specially designed to work with the Profit System.
Tested on The South Branch of the Delaware River it has been proven to reduce fish kill by 92.4% compared to the use of dynamite while fishing.
The special circle hook grabs the trout without it ever knowing what hit it. Thus rendering it harmless and docile making landing so much easier for the fish.
To revive the fish after a short quick painful extraction from the gill plates revives the trout to it normal fear of death behaviour of thrashing itself on the rocks.
The Profit System comes in many colours... the three most popular being blood red, death white, and guts pink.
So the next time that 24 inch Brown Trout refuses to even look at your Quill Gordon...
Hook on the Profit System.... slide that special sponge attachment right by that fussy trout... and then hold on.
Remember, with the Profit System.. keep that camera close by!
That's "EXACTLY" what it is AK, it's LINING.
And you (Moffit Angling) mean to tell people that this will work with Dry fly's, YEA RIGHT!
And core's are coming out soon also, the man say's, so you can tye your own rubber fly's
uking-smiley:.I'll stick to tying fly's on hooks Thank You.
As allway's not breaking with tradition.
Wow, you really are new here.:rofl:
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