Just recently had a vendor at work, who I see sporadically, come in proclaiming a "great" day fishing the South Branch. He tells me all fish were at least 16". He even took two home for his dinner. Knowing him as I do I find everything he tells me to be true. He wrapped up his story by inviting me to join him on his next excursion and he'll show me all the "holes". Sounds enticing except for one thing-you may have guessed it, he fishes with nightcrawlers. Being strictly a fly fisher this leads me to wonder "do bait fishers have an advantage over fly fishermen or is all depending on conditions,etc.?" Just curious to see how confident everyone is when taking on the "enemy" known as the bait fisher.
Give us a try!
Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!
Us vs Them
- Thread starter sonny
- Start date
It is not even a close game.
Bait fisherman have it over us.
Even centre pinners have it over fly fisherman
Spin casters chucking plastic have it over fly fisherman......
As far as true enjoyment... we have it over all three of them.
... and NEFF has it all over GIRL SCOUT TROUT.
Fly vs. Bate and spin casters!
Bait fisherman have it over us.
Even centre pinners have it over fly fisherman
Spin casters chucking plastic have it over fly fisherman......
As far as true enjoyment... we have it over all three of them.
... and NEFF has it all over GIRL SCOUT TROUT.
Fly vs. Bate and spin casters!
Rusty Spinner
Active member
I agree with AK. Most of us graduated from worms to spinners to flies because catching fish was not the only reason we were/are out there fishing.
Perhaps during a heavy hatch when trout are totally keyed in to a certain bug in a certain stage of that bug's life cycle do we fly fishermen have the advantage, but if I had to catch trout because my life depended on it, give me some gobs of worms on a hook any day! Add a split shot and I'll clean out the entire river.
Perhaps during a heavy hatch when trout are totally keyed in to a certain bug in a certain stage of that bug's life cycle do we fly fishermen have the advantage, but if I had to catch trout because my life depended on it, give me some gobs of worms on a hook any day! Add a split shot and I'll clean out the entire river.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Guess you've never fished the Flatbrook where some fly anglers are notorious for fishing with worms on their fly rods (really!)
So what is that "I've got worms" doing under your name?
Unless you are trying to get SCAT BOY all excited...
HooliganTroutBum
Lasciate ogni speranza voi che entrate
That's funny, since you seem to be the only one pulling that never ending tape worm out of your own ass, along with whatever or whoever is still residing in it.
Missed you at the Altmar Hotel last weekend, fruitcake.
YouTube- Mike Richards DESTROYS David Booth HD Multiangle
Get DC to bring out the stretcher and haul your carcass off of the ice.
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HooliganTroutBum
Lasciate ogni speranza voi che entrate
Awwwww how sweet!!! Cabarle give you a set of new pom-poms for St. Nicholas Day, today??
AK , clearly
rofl gets his head rattled, again. YouTube- Dan Cleary Levels Dion Phaneuf
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NJpatbee
Can be found on NJ/NY/PA waters!
I agree that catching a trout with a worm is easier than with a fly, and that's why most people, many of them casual fishermen, go the bait route.
However, a person that is proficient in the many fly-fishing techniques including midges, weighted nymphs, streamers, and wet flies, IMO has the advantage over the experienced bait fisherman over the course of a season - which for me is about 9 months. The variety of offerings is almost endless (including worms, crayfish, leeches, scuds, etc.), and during most of a normal season, water levels are accomodating to fly tackle.
Achieving a high level of proficiency is one of the many aspects of that makes fly fishing so interesting and a challenge. Take a newbie trout fishing for the first time and he will catch more trout with worms than the fly. But take an avid fly fisherman with years to work on his craft and he should be able to catch more trout over the course of the season. I know for myself I was pretty deadly as a kid and teen with worms, but I never had the success that I now have with 35+ years of fly-fishing experience.
Disclaimer: Keep in mind I am talking about fishing a trout stream, and not a deep lake or reservoir.
However, a person that is proficient in the many fly-fishing techniques including midges, weighted nymphs, streamers, and wet flies, IMO has the advantage over the experienced bait fisherman over the course of a season - which for me is about 9 months. The variety of offerings is almost endless (including worms, crayfish, leeches, scuds, etc.), and during most of a normal season, water levels are accomodating to fly tackle.
Achieving a high level of proficiency is one of the many aspects of that makes fly fishing so interesting and a challenge. Take a newbie trout fishing for the first time and he will catch more trout with worms than the fly. But take an avid fly fisherman with years to work on his craft and he should be able to catch more trout over the course of the season. I know for myself I was pretty deadly as a kid and teen with worms, but I never had the success that I now have with 35+ years of fly-fishing experience.
Disclaimer: Keep in mind I am talking about fishing a trout stream, and not a deep lake or reservoir.
charlieincambridge
New member
NJPB, well said. I would add even in the winter, on some rivers, a flyfisherman adept at fishing low and slow with the right flies can come pretty close. It's allways a challenge to keep getting better and better.
Charlie
Charlie
just want to say i took up fly fishing because it was very easy to catch fresh stocked trout on worms and powerbait. my first trip during this fall stocking was to a hot hole with bait and that was effective on a few large one's. but this year, i have caught more large stocked trout fly fishing after the fish dispersed than on bait. as for lures they are not as effective as bait in my opinion but sometimes work. I saw a guy at the gorge catch a 22" 5 lber on a spinner (not bubba) last weekend.
However...when i switched to focusing on fly fishing this spring in the same holes i was used to bait fishing (not the gorge of course), i had more sucess most of the time especially when the water lowered and cleared. you could literally see fish nymphing and flies far outcaught bait. many times they were sitting in riffles that you just would not be able to worm fish effectively enough. one day i was pulling them out one after the other on flies and this was all when i had very little experience. my friend went back to get his fly rod because of my results.
for trout in the most challenging places flies can easily outfish bait. and even in places when bait is working good. if your buddy takes you to those holes that are holding up fish you'll catch them on flies or streamers or something just as he will on bait i bet. i can guarantee you that they're eating many more flies than worms these days. up north (oak orchard, salmon river) we've tried worms and powerbait just to see what would happen and while this ocassionally works there is no question fly fishing is much more effective up there also.
However...when i switched to focusing on fly fishing this spring in the same holes i was used to bait fishing (not the gorge of course), i had more sucess most of the time especially when the water lowered and cleared. you could literally see fish nymphing and flies far outcaught bait. many times they were sitting in riffles that you just would not be able to worm fish effectively enough. one day i was pulling them out one after the other on flies and this was all when i had very little experience. my friend went back to get his fly rod because of my results.
for trout in the most challenging places flies can easily outfish bait. and even in places when bait is working good. if your buddy takes you to those holes that are holding up fish you'll catch them on flies or streamers or something just as he will on bait i bet. i can guarantee you that they're eating many more flies than worms these days. up north (oak orchard, salmon river) we've tried worms and powerbait just to see what would happen and while this ocassionally works there is no question fly fishing is much more effective up there also.
PRomano
Fishizzle, I never use worms!
True! That's why spin and bait fishing is booooooooooooring!:beingsick:
mbwmn
“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”
the 20+ spinning rods w/reels and 3 tackle bags i have (untouched in my basement for 4+yrs) would tend to 'offset' your theory...
but the 10 flyrods and 16 reels/spools i have accumulated in less than a year would help confirm part of it...
I'm convinced it's a disease; whether spin or fly makes little difference to some of us.
but the 10 flyrods and 16 reels/spools i have accumulated in less than a year would help confirm part of it...
I'm convinced it's a disease; whether spin or fly makes little difference to some of us.
PRomano
Fishizzle, I never use worms!
10 fly rods in a year? LOL! I'd say you're addicted. Good for you. If you enjoy it; then go for it.
Getting back to the subject of this post. I personally think that a well experienced Fly Fisherman can out fish a bait guy 90% of the time. I'm talking trout here not other species.
Getting back to the subject of this post. I personally think that a well experienced Fly Fisherman can out fish a bait guy 90% of the time. I'm talking trout here not other species.
draku007
New member
"Fly Fishing Basics" by Dave Hughes opening chapter:
"We think about fly fishing in terms of difficulty, but the truth is that once you learn to fish with flies, which is not nearly as difficult as it's often thought to be, you can commonly catch more fish by fly fishing than you can by any other method".
"We think about fly fishing in terms of difficulty, but the truth is that once you learn to fish with flies, which is not nearly as difficult as it's often thought to be, you can commonly catch more fish by fly fishing than you can by any other method".
mbwmn
“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”
I think the fact that most (all?) of our TCA's are limited to "artificials only", and that we (fly fisherman) complain to no end about all the bait containers we find in them is very telling.
I have no doubt that during a hatch the right (size and color) fly will easily out fish a worm, even if presented poorly. It frustrated me to no end when I was spin fishing.
I have no doubt that most (if not all) on this board can easily outfish me, even if we were to use the exact same fly.
BUT, between now and the first few few weeks of the season opener, when there are no hatches and very little underwater bug activity any skilled spin fisherman would easily outfish the best fly fisherman using a red wiggler or baby nightcrawler on a sz 16 hook w/ 2lbfluoro and some properly adjusted shot.
Think about a well-tied san juan worm and a wiggling baby crawler going past a fish at the same time...let's not even go to whether or not fish "smell". Presentation is everything. Presenting a bait that is live w/ motion, and one that is found naturally after every rain vs. a pipe cleaner w/ a hook...well...
I have no doubt that during a hatch the right (size and color) fly will easily out fish a worm, even if presented poorly. It frustrated me to no end when I was spin fishing.
I have no doubt that most (if not all) on this board can easily outfish me, even if we were to use the exact same fly.
BUT, between now and the first few few weeks of the season opener, when there are no hatches and very little underwater bug activity any skilled spin fisherman would easily outfish the best fly fisherman using a red wiggler or baby nightcrawler on a sz 16 hook w/ 2lbfluoro and some properly adjusted shot.
Think about a well-tied san juan worm and a wiggling baby crawler going past a fish at the same time...let's not even go to whether or not fish "smell". Presentation is everything. Presenting a bait that is live w/ motion, and one that is found naturally after every rain vs. a pipe cleaner w/ a hook...well...
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In the night crawler vs san juan example you give, I think there shouldn't be much difference in getting the fish to take. Particularly in fast water, the fish have a very small window of opportunity to grab the lure (fly or bait). The difference is that the fly will be rejected quickly, while a fish will hang onto the real worm. If you're a jedi nymph fisherman and can detect every take, I think you're on a fairly even playing field. For us mere mortals, we're at a disadvantage.
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