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private water
- Thread starter springman
- Start date
mbwmn
“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Just a reminder for those who haven't seen a truly native brook trout lately. And by "native" I mean "Heritage" strain natives. Photo taken earlier today from electro-shocking a Musky trib. There are no more beautiful fish that swim than the char family in my book...
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Nobody that posted is against stocked trout, they have their place we were merely trying to educate you that there are many wild trout in NJ. Your posts can only lead any accomplished NJ trout angler to think you are pretty misguided to the streams and trout of NJ. Our posts were to inform you and make you knowledgable of the facts. The action begins to slow when the stocking is over for a multitude of reasons: 1) no more weekly delivieries of fresh, ready-to-catch stockies new to the stream. 2) Summer begins and the waters heat up and gets lower, making the fish less active and often spookier. 3) most wild trout have moved out of the heavily pressured, stocked areas 4) the holdover stocked fish have become more acclimated to the stream environment and those that are thriving have often moved well out of the pools they were stocked in.
Yeah most fish caught in the gorge are stocked, it's excellent holdover water. But there are a lot of wild trout there too, how many more do you think there would be if they stopped stocking the gorge? Stocking over wild trout has been proven to lower wild trout populations. Many of us aren't fishing the gorge because it has stocked trout but rather because it is gorgeous, classic trout water with public access. If they stopped stocking the gorge I and others would still fish it, probably even more than we do now. Some stocked breeders fight well, others are just like heavy logs for the most part, there is no hard fast rule. Personally, I would rather they raise and stock all trout at 5-8 inches (or even 6-9inches) on a put, grow, & take basis. The quality of those catches at legal length would be phenomenal.
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Wow, I wish I had read this crapola of a post before I responded previously. So you're admittedly ignorant AND lazy. Go to a pay-to-fish pond because that seems to be the experience that you're after. "I want to catch fish, not fish for them." Well we can't help you here because we actually enjoy fishing for trout, learning, and improving our skills continuously. You're another poster I'll be sure to ignore in the future.
Broadheadscreek
Proud Member Of The 10% Club
"I love the pursuit/nature aspect."
Does not sound like it to me as you do not like to go fishless it seems. Also the fact that you would rather go to a pay stream where they hand feed their pets for your enjoyment so you "know they are there".
"because people like to catch fish not spend the day trying to find the one that might be hiding under the log."
I like to catch fish as well and do so 95% of the time and I might add I fish public waters 99.9% of the time and fish nearly every day of the year, those that know me and have fished with me can vouch for that. Like I said if you do your home work and find a good piece of water which there is plenty and learn it you will catch fish . As I have seen here and many of my guest as well , I fish in areas that are fished to death as witnessed by the many full stringers and plastic bags going out on a daily basis. And me nore my guest usually have problems catching fish. This time of the year is more of an early morning and evening in to dark game unless it is overcast in which case you can fish all day long. When I do go fishless it isn't from the lack of seeing fish but rather picky fish I can not figure out that particular day or time out but that is what fishing is about and thats what keeps me returning.
"elitist"
Nope not an elitist just like the challange and persuit makes it all worth while when a trout comes to hand.
One thing I will agree on - sneaking into club waters and catching a 20" fish is a blast when you are 12. The tension about getting caught and the chance of catching a trout twice as big as anything you ever caught before are real exciting. I don't entirely trust someone who says they were so good when they were 12 that they could resist a little poaching now and again. If I see kids poaching I feel it is my duty to chase them as much to do my part in making their day exiting as to teach them proper etiquette. But hopefully you get over it and my attitude to adults poaching is a whole different matter.
I shouldn't be too hard on anyone trying to pull in a big trout. We all go through the steps - I know I have.
1. Figure out how to catch a trout
2. Catch a fish on a fly
3. Catch a trout on a fly you tied yourself
4. Catch a trout on a fly and/or a rod made by a friend or loved one.
5. Catch a bunch of trout
6. Catch a giant trout
7. Learn to catch tough trout
8. Catch a trout on antique tackle
9. Catch a trout every month of the year/every week of the year/every day of the year
10. Teach others to catch trout
It's not a linear process and the urge to do any of these things can hit me at any time. Also not all people hit all steps, or even very many of them. That is why I can fly fish my whole life.
I shouldn't be too hard on anyone trying to pull in a big trout. We all go through the steps - I know I have.
1. Figure out how to catch a trout
2. Catch a fish on a fly
3. Catch a trout on a fly you tied yourself
4. Catch a trout on a fly and/or a rod made by a friend or loved one.
5. Catch a bunch of trout
6. Catch a giant trout
7. Learn to catch tough trout
8. Catch a trout on antique tackle
9. Catch a trout every month of the year/every week of the year/every day of the year
10. Teach others to catch trout
It's not a linear process and the urge to do any of these things can hit me at any time. Also not all people hit all steps, or even very many of them. That is why I can fly fish my whole life.
Jeffk you're the best. i qualify for 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 & 10.
I have no beef with anyone here but for that guy to say i'm ignorant is silly. i probably have caught more trout that many of you this year and partly is because i started the year with bait and we all know or should know powerbait works like a charm on opening day and into the stocking season. many times it's better than flys.
If you went back to my posts a year ago when i asked for advice you would see that the reason i only flyfish for trout now the vast majority of the time is that it was way too easy to catch stocked fish on powerbait and i was facinated the more i got into the whole food chain aspect and started to more keenly observe what was going on in the stream around me. plus all trout have insects in their stomachs. why not use what works? you are flyfishing because it works. if it didn't you'd all be using bait or you wouldn't be fisherman at all. think about it.
I have also been many times to Oak Orchard and other rivers up there which will remain secret fishing for huge natural lake run brown trout so even before i fly fished for lesser quarry in NJ i was catching huge browns off stoneflys, egg flys and so on both on fly rod and spinning. So there's clearly no issue with my knowledge of how to catch a trout on a fly because if you can fool a fish who is looking right at you, you can fool anything that can't see you twice as easily. and...to me as least it's not that hard to fool natural trout as you make it seem. they eat the same food a stockie does and when are hungry can be caught on just about anything sometimes just like a stockie. I've caught plenty of natural trout in vermont and other remote places off powerbait and especially worms. sure we can employ stealth for small natural trout that spook easily in the northern regions of NJ but that's totally different than going to the gorge. they may be smart but they aren't as spooked in the south branch or musky. I found a hole as you guy suggest last year that had me face to face with natural trout and they bit better than any stocked gorge trout. heck when you're hungry you eat. to top it all off i had no idea how to even fly fish at the time yet nailed them of flies and know they would not have taken powerbait. Any of you who fish the south branch are no different than me. if you only just enjoyed the nature aspect of going fishing you'd be a hiker or a walker like the many we see at the gorge. You would not carry around a fishing rod and make an attempt because that attempt make you a fisherman and there's no fisherman i know that's happy about being skunked. Get real. Be honest with youself.
I have no beef with anyone here but for that guy to say i'm ignorant is silly. i probably have caught more trout that many of you this year and partly is because i started the year with bait and we all know or should know powerbait works like a charm on opening day and into the stocking season. many times it's better than flys.
If you went back to my posts a year ago when i asked for advice you would see that the reason i only flyfish for trout now the vast majority of the time is that it was way too easy to catch stocked fish on powerbait and i was facinated the more i got into the whole food chain aspect and started to more keenly observe what was going on in the stream around me. plus all trout have insects in their stomachs. why not use what works? you are flyfishing because it works. if it didn't you'd all be using bait or you wouldn't be fisherman at all. think about it.
I have also been many times to Oak Orchard and other rivers up there which will remain secret fishing for huge natural lake run brown trout so even before i fly fished for lesser quarry in NJ i was catching huge browns off stoneflys, egg flys and so on both on fly rod and spinning. So there's clearly no issue with my knowledge of how to catch a trout on a fly because if you can fool a fish who is looking right at you, you can fool anything that can't see you twice as easily. and...to me as least it's not that hard to fool natural trout as you make it seem. they eat the same food a stockie does and when are hungry can be caught on just about anything sometimes just like a stockie. I've caught plenty of natural trout in vermont and other remote places off powerbait and especially worms. sure we can employ stealth for small natural trout that spook easily in the northern regions of NJ but that's totally different than going to the gorge. they may be smart but they aren't as spooked in the south branch or musky. I found a hole as you guy suggest last year that had me face to face with natural trout and they bit better than any stocked gorge trout. heck when you're hungry you eat. to top it all off i had no idea how to even fly fish at the time yet nailed them of flies and know they would not have taken powerbait. Any of you who fish the south branch are no different than me. if you only just enjoyed the nature aspect of going fishing you'd be a hiker or a walker like the many we see at the gorge. You would not carry around a fishing rod and make an attempt because that attempt make you a fisherman and there's no fisherman i know that's happy about being skunked. Get real. Be honest with youself.
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SleepsWithFishes
New member
when are you all gonna realize , and how long are you all gonna allow your selfs to be jerked off by this~~~:crap:
Drossi
If they can't take joke .....'em
Springboy Wants to:
1) join a club with exclusive water
2) routinely catch 20"+ easy, peasy stockies
3) spend most time catching
Springboy doesn't want to:
1) fish the ample public water with the rest of the plebs
2) catch dinky 10" stockies
3) search under every log or rock for that matter.....fyi - that's called reading the water and learning where fish lie (it makes the search easier)
4) "waste time" casting without catching fish
5) bother looking for good, less crowded public water
6) LEARN TO FLY FISH
Pop Quiz
Springboy:
1) should listen to the advice he has gotten on the board so far
2) should take up golf
3) is a closet elitist
4) has a small.......(insert with your selection)
Codicile:
Springboy you haven't gotten "it" yet, maybe you never will. Fishing isn't just about catching, never is. Even kids get that. Save the instant gratification for your internet surfing.
1) join a club with exclusive water
2) routinely catch 20"+ easy, peasy stockies
3) spend most time catching
Springboy doesn't want to:
1) fish the ample public water with the rest of the plebs
2) catch dinky 10" stockies
3) search under every log or rock for that matter.....fyi - that's called reading the water and learning where fish lie (it makes the search easier)
4) "waste time" casting without catching fish
5) bother looking for good, less crowded public water
6) LEARN TO FLY FISH
Pop Quiz
Springboy:
1) should listen to the advice he has gotten on the board so far
2) should take up golf
3) is a closet elitist
4) has a small.......(insert with your selection)
Codicile:
Springboy you haven't gotten "it" yet, maybe you never will. Fishing isn't just about catching, never is. Even kids get that. Save the instant gratification for your internet surfing.
i'm staring to hope i never meet some of you because it totally seem like you're such an elitist that you stink of expensive cologne. wtf are you even talking about? if you just read my long post it said i fly fish for the challenge. I've had one of you in a hole next to me hooting and hollering at how great you are at catching fish and i know it's someone here so i don't want to hear it's not important to catch them. If my end result is catching them then would the means to accomplishing that goal be to
1. find where they are
2. figure out what they might be feeding on and
3. try to fool them with a fly??????????????
how can any of you berate me? it's like the old argument you'd only use dry flies because it's too easy to catch them on nymphs. wtf is that all about? 90% of a trout's diet it underwater yet you'd go out and fish only with dries and the fish that actually falls for it in the middle of no hatch is the dumbest one in the run? you're being silly.
the thread was all about how to find out about these clubs and someone said it's about me wanting to only catch big one's? you are the one's who started going off on why you should be able to only fish public water. perhaps i want to join the club so i don't have to fish near you and hear how special it is to try and find them and get skunked. I go fishing to catch fish and just because it's a privte club and maybe they can afford bigger fish or more of them doesn't make those fish any dumber than the one's you are all fishing for every day in the public areas.
1. find where they are
2. figure out what they might be feeding on and
3. try to fool them with a fly??????????????
how can any of you berate me? it's like the old argument you'd only use dry flies because it's too easy to catch them on nymphs. wtf is that all about? 90% of a trout's diet it underwater yet you'd go out and fish only with dries and the fish that actually falls for it in the middle of no hatch is the dumbest one in the run? you're being silly.
the thread was all about how to find out about these clubs and someone said it's about me wanting to only catch big one's? you are the one's who started going off on why you should be able to only fish public water. perhaps i want to join the club so i don't have to fish near you and hear how special it is to try and find them and get skunked. I go fishing to catch fish and just because it's a privte club and maybe they can afford bigger fish or more of them doesn't make those fish any dumber than the one's you are all fishing for every day in the public areas.
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i do golf. is there something wrong with combining golf with fishing? are you that much of a hick?
and what's wrong with joining a club. i see you are a tu member. is that now not a club? nobody told me they were shutting down.
and lastly, i actually go fishing, find them and then catch them so perhaps i'm way better than you are since you can only accomplish 2 of the three.
but just to piss you off, i'll be at the gorge tomorrow with dynamite. can you please give me directions to shannon's so i can hand in the tag.
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Rusty Spinner
Active member
Not a club but a coldwater conservation organization. Sure, most of our members fish, and most of them that do fly fish, but we are a conservation organization and not a fishing club. There is actually often a big difference.
i have zero problem throwing them back but am very sad when they get off.
i think it's extremely responsible to conserve for the future and love TU and other organizations and/or clubs that are like minded.
I have no beef with anyone here. what started as a little joking turned into something much more and it's fun but it wasn't the point.
i am simply curious as to what the private clubs are all about and yes a little jealous they can have such nice water to themselves and i have zero chance of stubling upon it. face it...at the gorge it's a lot about getting to the right spot first since the next good spot will probably have somone in it when it's time to move. there is no question active members here can fish so i would highly doubt you'd leave me many biters in the hole you just vacated. of course i realize it's about the pursuit. i see none of you at my other hot spots so we all have them and all of us know how to seek out trout. it's not that difficult.
Hey Einstein,
Some of us never fish the gorge and we also don't belong to any club. We find more than enough great trout water in NJ. Some of us have even fished club water, it's nice, but it sure isn't the best water available, mostly because it gets hammered and many of the fish are pellet fed freaks. Sure they can be fun to catch, but it isn't nirvana. There are 100's of spots on NJ rivers that are nicer than club water. That said, for some, clubs fit their needs/wants, and that fine.
The gorge is fished heavily, but its still too nice for someone with such a narrow minded approach to the sport.
Effort = reward.
Mel
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
Does this mean I can take photos of fish on wet wood? Or do I have to electro shock them first to avoid killing them by scraping off their slime coat?
That one pic might just turn the worlds of pompous indignant c & r ers upside down!
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SleepsWithFishes
New member
a true NJ heritage brookie that gave me wood,..
Rusty Spinner
Active member
??? I seriously hope you understand that that fish was released completely unharmed and are just busting chops. So were the hundred or so others we shocked. Measuring them and taking a fin clipping is all part of the science of fisheries management. All fish are handled with rubber gloves, quickly cataloged, fin clipped and released unharmed in a very short time frame. Not only is the wooden measuring board wet, but it is coated (urethane?) to prevent the fish from ever touching dry wood.
eddavidson9
how's that for a slice of fried gold
"Now, he could as easily have said: 'I am King Sh!t of F^ck Mountain! WHY WOULD YOU F^CK WITH ME?!'"
CreekAddict
Pure and Simple
He obviously can't fish.
Drossi
If they can't take joke .....'em
i do golf. That explains alot.is there something wrong with combining golf with fishing? Isn't it awfully hard to cast with golf club? are you that much of a hick?Damn, about a month ago someone else on the board called me an elitist. Shit which is it. I'm having an identity crisis.
and what's wrong with joining a club. i see you are a tu member.and what would make you think that is that now not a club? conservation organizationnobody told me they were shutting down.
and lastly, i actually go fishing, find them and then catch them so perhaps i'm way better than you are since you can only accomplish 2 of the three.you're right, you outed me. "I do the things I want to do, I don't have a thing to prove to you"
but just to piss you off just to piss you off, I could care less.
Please somebody direct the boy to a club that has an opening and get him off the public waters so he doesn't run into me and my one tooth slobering tobacco juice all over myself. The damn hick I am.
One other question golf boy, when you "fish" do you carry around a scorecard?
Agust
Resident TU Rat Bastard
As a member of one of these private clubs, who has been known to have a pinch between m cheek and gum, I can assure you that he will not be protected from that by membership.
I'm not on the membership committee, but if his self professed attitude is any indication of what he is like in real life, we won't have to be subject to him either. Last trespasser that we caught got fined the equivalent of several years worth of membership fees, plus whatever he had to pay his lawyer. Of course that cash did not go to us, but still it was worthwhile.
Drossi, if you ever want to come as a guest send me a PM, if you can tolerate fishing with a low life rat bastard like me....
YO -
Did I ever tell you (my NEW best friend and) BUDDY that I AK Skim love to fish private club waters?
As one of fly fishing top elitist and I must say I am a huge fan of top snobbery... and love being so.
Only two things, I do not fish with an ascot on, or a Cowboy hat.
Other than that I am a walking ORVIS catalog on two feet.
I always fit right in.
I'll have my appointment secretary contact you on my available dates.
As always, Upper Crust of Fly Fishing Society I is.
AK Skim
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
Of course I am.
But you've seen the wrath that has swirled on this board when someone takes a photo of a trout (even on wet vegetation or pebbles). You should be honored that you are of such a standing on this site that NOBODY jumped on you for placing one of God's Great Creatures on a plank...
(and NOW we know that you mutilated it's fin also) For the love of all that's good....
Mark S.
Fly & Spin Fisherman
quick glance had me thinking 13" trophy but a closer look showed 13cm. nice try! ;-)
i've heard of the fin clipping before and its common practice but does seem a bit harsh BUT when you think about it, most wild adult trout damage their fins during spawning to the point of bleeding and survive so i guess a "clean" snip is okay.
Back in the day when my buddies at NCSU were doing Southern Appalachian brookie studies you needed to put a whole trout in a "homogenizer" (a fancy word for a lab blender) to do the DNA sample. In the previous NJ brookie DNA work Pat had to draw blood for a sample (tough on a tiny trout). I'm sure the trout appreciate just needing to donate a piece of fin for the cause.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Pat and I were talking about that while batting away hordes of mosquitos. The last time she electro fished this trib was for her master's degree and she had to remove heart blood from only the larger fish which made it tough because this stream has mostly tiny, YOY fish in it. Now they can take a small fin clip which will grow back quickly and they can later determine genetics. We shocked about 100 fish in a 150 meter distance in a stream sometimes no wider than 12 inches...and all descended from the Wisconsin Glacier's receeding waters.
I will again apologize and say since i'm not as good as most of you yet i have no need to carry a scorecard. it's pretty easy to keep track of my catch most of the time. I was also kidding when i said i catch fish everytime and I do thoroughly enjoy the chase almost as much as the reward when i get lucky. i actually feel blessed when i get one but find no need to keep count even when having a good day. the advice on this board is great and everyone i've met at the gorge which might be some of you has been more than generous with advice on what flies to use, etc. so thanks. If it wasn't for reading this board before i switched to flyfishing i'd probably still be frustrated trying to figure it out.
I never meant to offend anyone and admit it got out of hand. i just wanted to know about the clubs and most importantly how can anyone take over a public stream just because they own some land along the water? that was answered since apparently they own the streambed as well. doesn't really make sense since a stream is ever changing. It just seems strange that someone can take over a stream and possibly make nice holes/structure which will attract and hold many of the fish stocked and intended for public fishing. I am more annoyed than interested in joining.
Again i apologize and i'm sorry if i offended anyone.
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Don't you ever worry about keeping a score card.
That is MY JOB.
... and I have MY EYE on you....
Watch it BUSTER.
