Give us a try!
Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!
private water
- Thread starter springman
- Start date
kindanewbie77
the sad old dog with no friends
yup....go fish their water, without an invite( kind of like some people on here do).....you'll find out all you want!!!!!!
Broadheadscreek
Proud Member Of The 10% Club
Thats what I've heard, I think I saw it on troutpredator.com anyways you can check it out for yourself butt... you may have to become a Rock Star to do that!!
kindanewbie77
the sad old dog with no friends
rockstars go get some!
Thanks JH. What i want to know is how you can gain access (legally) to these? i have no problem paying to join a club if it's worth it but there is little to no info available.
Now, if you tell me it's a just a bunch or rich a-holes who don't let people in then i will definitely raid their water just to piss them off because i think it's ridiculous the state even allows private clubs to block what I think is public water. I'm sure a bunch of our NJ stocked trout find refuge in these lesser fished areas and these guys don't pay us for that.
Now, if you tell me it's a just a bunch or rich a-holes who don't let people in then i will definitely raid their water just to piss them off because i think it's ridiculous the state even allows private clubs to block what I think is public water. I'm sure a bunch of our NJ stocked trout find refuge in these lesser fished areas and these guys don't pay us for that.
Pete
Trout Hunter
Based on the information on the "Shannon's" and the "Raritan Inn" websites, I suspect Jim could get you in legally....
I didn't waste a lot of time browsing their websites, but I didn't find the prices.
If you want to do more searching than I did ...
http://www.raritaninn.com/
http://www.shannonsflytackle.com/services_raritan_inn.htm
Or just ask him via Private Message.
I didn't waste a lot of time browsing their websites, but I didn't find the prices.
If you want to do more searching than I did ...
http://www.raritaninn.com/
http://www.shannonsflytackle.com/services_raritan_inn.htm
Or just ask him via Private Message.
Generally on legal matters what you think has little bearing on things - what the judge thinks usually wins the day. NJ law recognizes that the property owner owns the bottom of the stream and that owners of private property can keep people off their property. How rich or poor or friendly or nasty the owner is has no bearing on that. If you want to determine who comes and goes on your property it is best to respect the property rights of others.
I think most of the private water is in the hands of clubs with limited membership, so you better start making friends and get on the waiting list. Jim can probably get you in as a guest where the Classic Rod Festival was held and maybe other spots. That was a great time to fish private water for free. I enjoyed it (thank's again Jim!). For 80% of the stretch there seemed to be the same wild browns and brookies there are elsewhere in the upper SBR. Two pools had numbers of stocked trophy fish. I caught one 19" brown just to tangle with a larger trout and then left the rest alone - didn't want to go overboard on free access, someone else paid for that fish. Except for the stocked trophies, the private club water seems pretty much like the nearby public water. And you are right in that some state stocked trout wander into the private water, but, some of those pellet fed lunkers also manage to find their way to public sections. It's silly to give out details, but there are a few spots on public water that draw fish from the nearby club water.
And the actual water is public much like the air we breathe is public. That drop of water that passes over private land will eventually get to public land where you can enjoy it.
I think most of the private water is in the hands of clubs with limited membership, so you better start making friends and get on the waiting list. Jim can probably get you in as a guest where the Classic Rod Festival was held and maybe other spots. That was a great time to fish private water for free. I enjoyed it (thank's again Jim!). For 80% of the stretch there seemed to be the same wild browns and brookies there are elsewhere in the upper SBR. Two pools had numbers of stocked trophy fish. I caught one 19" brown just to tangle with a larger trout and then left the rest alone - didn't want to go overboard on free access, someone else paid for that fish. Except for the stocked trophies, the private club water seems pretty much like the nearby public water. And you are right in that some state stocked trout wander into the private water, but, some of those pellet fed lunkers also manage to find their way to public sections. It's silly to give out details, but there are a few spots on public water that draw fish from the nearby club water.
And the actual water is public much like the air we breathe is public. That drop of water that passes over private land will eventually get to public land where you can enjoy it.
ROLLCAST86
New member
ROLLCAST86
New member
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
ok, ok i was joking about sneaking in on purpose. However if i drove by a spot and looked over and saw trophies i would want to wrangle with them if nobody was looking. i wouldn't keep them though.
JeffK had the best answer but somehow I doubt they are the same as public water or else what would be the point of joining? I snuck in a place in pa when i was a kid where every fish was a 3 plus pounder. Now that's what I want to join.
Don't we all want to save gas and not have to run up to Oak Orchard or the Salmon River to catch a big one? i say stock 200,000 large one's in the state instead of 500,000 10 inchers. I'll take my chances.
JeffK had the best answer but somehow I doubt they are the same as public water or else what would be the point of joining? I snuck in a place in pa when i was a kid where every fish was a 3 plus pounder. Now that's what I want to join.
Don't we all want to save gas and not have to run up to Oak Orchard or the Salmon River to catch a big one? i say stock 200,000 large one's in the state instead of 500,000 10 inchers. I'll take my chances.
There are places with private water that you mite be able to get into.All depends on how much dough your willing to cough up
uking-smiley: Myself, I'm not into clubs or being a member on private waters. I'd rather spend that kind of money on gear and trips to blue ribbon streams.Thing is as far as big fish go, they are there but it's up to you to find them. Jeff's right about the river at the Inn, it does hold a good number of wilds.
I'd rather fish for them than the pellet stockies if I had my choice and have caught a few large Wilds allready this year, on open water.
And as far as comparing Great Lake Salmonoid's to fat NJ Stokies.........THERE'S NO COMPARISON.
Broadheadscreek
Proud Member Of The 10% Club
I for one and I know many on here feel the same way, Like catching big wild trout there is something to be said for doing your home work and locating one and then fooling him. As apposed to marching right up to a pool full of pelletized brutes that you know are there not much fun. The thrill of the hunt and the pure exhileration of catching a big stream born wiley trout is far more exciting than a lunker pool fish any day. Use your hard earned money for a good GPS locate some likely water and create some memories that will last you a life time. Just my 2 cents.
NJAngler
Daily trifecta - brookies, browns and rainbows.
Keep in mind Springman, a few here - and on other sites - , although they openly express disdain for private/club water, are the same people who get permission either through a friend or by knocking on doors or just by knowing the right person/business to fish posted water. most times its not even club water, just a short stretch of stream that nobody else really fishes. this translates into easily caught wild trout and photo-worthy fish. so if you want, follow their lead and just ask before dropping down $1000 a year to catch pellet fish. research online by finding parcel/tax maps, find out who owns a stretch of stream your dying to fish and simply write them. most streams have dozens of owners making "knocking on doors" useless since they only own 200 feet of stream but there is the occasional farmer with 400 acres who might be kind enough to say yes to access to a mile of nice water.
Last edited:
Rusty Spinner
Active member
I always find the private water debate interesting in New Jersey where case law is not in question. Just this past Sunday one of our members asked the state council at our quarterly meeting what NJTU's position was and whether or not the council would "get involved in the river access business". I think that person was surprised to learn that access in NJ was long ago tested and is a known entity in a court of law. We practice old English Commonlaw which simply means that the landowner owns to the middle of the channel if he owns one bank and the entire river bottom if he owns both banks. Therefore, that property owner is within his rights to keep the public out of the river. He does not own the fish that swim in the river, those belong to the state (us), nor does he own the water, but the land is his and he can keep others off of it.
As for private fishing clubs on the SBR and Musky, I beleive there are three each on these two rivers. Most, if not all, require a waiting list and a reference/recommendation from an existing member to get in. Most have at least a few good holes where their bigger fish will stay because most clubs have done at least some habitat improvements to keep fish around better than the public water. Also, most clubs practice either 100% C&R or a much higher proportion of C&R than open waters so their fish tend to hold over more years (and grow larger) and they have more of them than most state waters.
I'm a huge proponent of catching wild fish, but there is nothing wrong with catching stocked fish, especially large holdover ones that put on a good showing for themselves.
As for private fishing clubs on the SBR and Musky, I beleive there are three each on these two rivers. Most, if not all, require a waiting list and a reference/recommendation from an existing member to get in. Most have at least a few good holes where their bigger fish will stay because most clubs have done at least some habitat improvements to keep fish around better than the public water. Also, most clubs practice either 100% C&R or a much higher proportion of C&R than open waters so their fish tend to hold over more years (and grow larger) and they have more of them than most state waters.
I'm a huge proponent of catching wild fish, but there is nothing wrong with catching stocked fish, especially large holdover ones that put on a good showing for themselves.
This advise has been really, really good. thank you all.
However, you guys keep talking about wild fish and clearly we'd all rather have the challenge and satisfaction but I cannot see how wild fish even come into play in NJ. The same streams are stocked with hatchery trout as well and I really don't think trout were here in NJ when the settlers came so there really is no wild fish in NJ if you think about it. i would think they all originated from a hatchery. Even where I go in upstate Vermont every year, they stock and there's no doubt they reproduce up there. At what point does a stocked fish become a native?
I still say the bigger, the better. There is nothing like hooking a monster on a 4 weight or an ultralight rod and knowing that it's 50/50 at best to get it in. I was lucky enough to hook 3 breeders this year and could not manage to get them in because I am not the best with a fly rod yet and am not used to catching the large one's. i probably caught well over 100 trout this season yet very few were over 12". I would rather catch 25 20" and have the limit be 3 fish per day. For those that keep them it's the same amount of meat.
Our state seems to have this figured out for the fall but why do they think we want numbers not quality in the spring? Especially if most don't holdover.
However, you guys keep talking about wild fish and clearly we'd all rather have the challenge and satisfaction but I cannot see how wild fish even come into play in NJ. The same streams are stocked with hatchery trout as well and I really don't think trout were here in NJ when the settlers came so there really is no wild fish in NJ if you think about it. i would think they all originated from a hatchery. Even where I go in upstate Vermont every year, they stock and there's no doubt they reproduce up there. At what point does a stocked fish become a native?
I still say the bigger, the better. There is nothing like hooking a monster on a 4 weight or an ultralight rod and knowing that it's 50/50 at best to get it in. I was lucky enough to hook 3 breeders this year and could not manage to get them in because I am not the best with a fly rod yet and am not used to catching the large one's. i probably caught well over 100 trout this season yet very few were over 12". I would rather catch 25 20" and have the limit be 3 fish per day. For those that keep them it's the same amount of meat.
Our state seems to have this figured out for the fall but why do they think we want numbers not quality in the spring? Especially if most don't holdover.
Last edited:
CreekAddict
Pure and Simple
There are native brook trout streams in NJ that have been here long before the settlers. There are a few streams in the state with big wild browns too.(yes those came from a hatchery at one point)
If all you want is big stockers, go to the pequest. To me, big stocked fish are only good for pictures. They don't fight worth a shit. I'd rather catch a 12 inch wild brown than a 20 inch stocked rainbow any day.
If all you want is big stockers, go to the pequest. To me, big stocked fish are only good for pictures. They don't fight worth a shit. I'd rather catch a 12 inch wild brown than a 20 inch stocked rainbow any day.
Broadheadscreek
Proud Member Of The 10% Club
I know where there is a lunker hole tough cast though as the big ones hang under the foot bridge, Cabelas need directions 78 west to Hamburg exit pull in parking lot go in front door straight to the back behind the mountain.Good fly's to take pellet fly size 14-16 , Penny copper emergers size 12-14 and the Gum Wrapper dry size 12 in juicy fruit seems to work the best here..Presentation is not paramount here just plop your fly on the water and hold on.. You may want to ask permission before casting however. Good luck!! Oh and write us a report complete with pics!!
There were wild trout in NJ prior to settlers and there continues to be, just because you haven't caught one doesn't mean they "dont come into play." Obviously, keep practicing. Stocked fish are neither wild or native but if they reproduce successfully their offspring would be wild. The only trout "native" to NJ is the brookie. What they call "heritage-strain" brookies are the "genetically unique" wild brookies that originally inhabitated our trout streams. However many current wild populations of trout originated from or bred with stocked fish generations ago.
Raising large fish costs much more money and takes up a lot of hatchery space, no way the state could afford to raise all of their fish to 2yr old status. Not enough money or space in the hatchery. Many spring fish do holdover, at least in the true trout streams. Often the 10-12 inchers have a better chance than a 20" breeder that was recently released. It's a myth of the ignorant that they don't, the state might not properly acknowledge that fact but it's true. I grew up fishing the Pohat and Roaring Rock almost everyday (both were within a stones throw of my house) and caught many trout all summer long, never did see Division personel down there observing it though.
Last edited:
Hllywd76
Get hooked on fly.. just debarb first!!!!
Unless the guys fishing private water in NJ have no license they have paid for the fish NJ stocks. They still need a NJ license and Trout stamp to fish NJ waters for trout.
As Ryan said the fish that are born in the river are wild. Not Native but Wild.
I would rather catch wild fish anyday and enjoy when I do.
Hllywd
strike proof
my presentation promotes trout safety
Broadheadscreek: First time I have seen this edge to you. Seriously funny, and completely accurate point.
NJpatbee
Can be found on NJ/NY/PA waters!
If anyone believes that there are no wild or native trout in NJ, they are fishing the wrong places. 90% of the NJ trout that I have caught this year have been wild. As for stocking extra large trout such as in the NJ Fall stocking, go ahead in Trout Maintenance areas but keep them away from TP waters.
For myself personally, I do not get any more satisfaction from catching a 20" stockie fresh from Pequest than a 10" stockie. (a 14" holdover that started out as a 10" stockie is a different story). When I fish over fresh stockies I am typically fishing the stream and not too concerned over the size of the stockie that I may hook. The BFB has one of the better Quill Gordon hatches in NJ, and that will attract me to the stream much more so than the idea of catching an 18" fresh stockie.
Wild trout are in a separate class and combine the challenge of approaching and deceiving a wiley stream-bred fish, while at the same time enjoying what the stream has to offer. I would prefer catching an 10" wild NJ trout more than any freshly stocked trout, but that's just me. Fortunately for me, most anglers do not hold my opinion and I can find some soltude on the waters I fish.
Please note that I used the term "freshly stocked trout" to differentiate from stocked trout that have been in the water for several months or longer. These seasoned holdovers provide an excellent challenge, and are a good reason for releasing trout in quality waters.
For myself personally, I do not get any more satisfaction from catching a 20" stockie fresh from Pequest than a 10" stockie. (a 14" holdover that started out as a 10" stockie is a different story). When I fish over fresh stockies I am typically fishing the stream and not too concerned over the size of the stockie that I may hook. The BFB has one of the better Quill Gordon hatches in NJ, and that will attract me to the stream much more so than the idea of catching an 18" fresh stockie.
Wild trout are in a separate class and combine the challenge of approaching and deceiving a wiley stream-bred fish, while at the same time enjoying what the stream has to offer. I would prefer catching an 10" wild NJ trout more than any freshly stocked trout, but that's just me. Fortunately for me, most anglers do not hold my opinion and I can find some soltude on the waters I fish.
Please note that I used the term "freshly stocked trout" to differentiate from stocked trout that have been in the water for several months or longer. These seasoned holdovers provide an excellent challenge, and are a good reason for releasing trout in quality waters.
Broadheadscreek
Proud Member Of The 10% Club
Very good point Pat and I think that goes for pretty much any place you fish. I am fortunate to fish many streams over the course of a year and found numerous wild or stream bred trout. Some large ones to boot some I have caught some I have not. It's all part of the game the ones I have located and have not caught will be there and when the stars aline we will meet again and maybe just maybe I'll win. That's what makes this sport so much fun the big ones didn't get big by being dumb. Even a little wild gem takes presidence over a stockie just no comparison in the fight or the colors..
Last edited:
Agust
Resident TU Rat Bastard
Anyone fishing on private water needs a valid NJ fishing license, and if fishing on a trout stocked stream they need a trout stamp. In addition they must obey all laws.
For instance the South Branch is closed on Tuesdays during the in season stocking in April and May, members of the Solitude Club or Anglers Anonymous are not allowed to fish until after 5, and are not allowed to fish during the closed season. private clubs that allow their members to harvest trout, cannot set limits in excess of the state limit. (There are some exceptions on waters completely isolated like farm ponds of private lakes, with no state stocked fish.)
Most private clubs have everyday folks in them. There are of course usually a few lawyers, doctors, dentists but just as likely there are teachers, cops, mechanics and computer geeks. There are of course clubs with memberships that range from a few hundred to tens of thousands and the membership composition is likely to differ between them.
For instance the South Branch is closed on Tuesdays during the in season stocking in April and May, members of the Solitude Club or Anglers Anonymous are not allowed to fish until after 5, and are not allowed to fish during the closed season. private clubs that allow their members to harvest trout, cannot set limits in excess of the state limit. (There are some exceptions on waters completely isolated like farm ponds of private lakes, with no state stocked fish.)
Most private clubs have everyday folks in them. There are of course usually a few lawyers, doctors, dentists but just as likely there are teachers, cops, mechanics and computer geeks. There are of course clubs with memberships that range from a few hundred to tens of thousands and the membership composition is likely to differ between them.
Private clubs vary all over the place. One big reason for joining a club is for less crowding and knowing that everyone else fishing will be your buddy. Some clubs might be a few hundred dollars per year, others are $10,000 or more per year. Most clubs I have fished are like a lightly fished KLG where good fishing is because the fish are less pressured and most are put back in. You can find similar places on public land. The two places I have fished that most duplicate the feel of a "big money" club are public: the Pequest Education Pond and the Connetquot (although the IPN outbreak has hurt the Connetquot). The clubs I have been a guest at are not in that league.
Those 3 lbs+ fish cost a lot of money and only the most well heeled clubs are wall to wall monster trout. Most clubs have to balance cost and number of fish stocked and cannot usually provide non-stop fishing for 20"+ fish. Many clubs also require a little sweat equity to keep costs down. The wealthy clubs can hire full time security, contractors for stream improvements, etc' some others cannot.
Gary LaFontaine named those super stocked waters "Fishing Disneyland." We all like to visit Disneyland once in a while, but it can get old after a while. Kind of like the old Twilight Zone where the dead gambler wins every hand in the afterlife and asks how he got into Heaven after living an evil life. Of course the punch line is that he is not.
Those 3 lbs+ fish cost a lot of money and only the most well heeled clubs are wall to wall monster trout. Most clubs have to balance cost and number of fish stocked and cannot usually provide non-stop fishing for 20"+ fish. Many clubs also require a little sweat equity to keep costs down. The wealthy clubs can hire full time security, contractors for stream improvements, etc' some others cannot.
Gary LaFontaine named those super stocked waters "Fishing Disneyland." We all like to visit Disneyland once in a while, but it can get old after a while. Kind of like the old Twilight Zone where the dead gambler wins every hand in the afterlife and asks how he got into Heaven after living an evil life. Of course the punch line is that he is not.
ok i will pull back a little and say yes it's great to catch a wild trout which in NJ I have done so in the gorge but i am in disagreement about the stocked breeders being lame fighters. I have caught huge suckers no problem at all but every large hatchery trout i hooked ran just like they do anywhere else and did not want to come in.
Not sure why you guys are so against stocked trout when everyone here on this board fishes in NJ and the gorge regularly????? what do you think is in there? 9 out of 10 seem to be stocked from my observations.
When the stocking is over the fishing action slows. if there were so many natural trout then the action would be hot all year long. there are less and less as the days go by because a vast majority do not let them go. Heck my buddy just saw a lady in Medford, NJ (rich area) with a sign saying will work for food. Do you really think people except for us on the is board are throwing them back? Not anywhere but the places you're forced to throw them back.
Not sure why you guys are so against stocked trout when everyone here on this board fishes in NJ and the gorge regularly????? what do you think is in there? 9 out of 10 seem to be stocked from my observations.
When the stocking is over the fishing action slows. if there were so many natural trout then the action would be hot all year long. there are less and less as the days go by because a vast majority do not let them go. Heck my buddy just saw a lady in Medford, NJ (rich area) with a sign saying will work for food. Do you really think people except for us on the is board are throwing them back? Not anywhere but the places you're forced to throw them back.
eddavidson9
how's that for a slice of fried gold
wild fish are tougher to catch than stocked fish, and even stocked fish wise up quickly. sure, a lot may be taken out depending where you fish, but as we all know, just cause you're not catching them doesnt mean they arent there.
frankly, between your outspoken ignorance on issues of land rights, trespassing, and wild/stocked/native fish, you strike me as someone who would be better served taking the advice youre getting on this board rather than continuously challanging it.
Last edited:
cmon now ed, why are you all over me? can't you sense joking vs reaity? do you really think i want to feel like a little kid sneaking into someone's private hole? i would have never started the thread asking how you find out info about joining clubs if i wanted to sneak in. so while i may have ranted/joked around with you guys a little i follow every rule and don't even like eating trout much so don't even care to keep them.
I love the pursuit/nature aspect. However, i do go out with the intention of catching them. if it were just for casting practice i would just stay in my backyard. go to vermont and see how many people are fly fishing these famous streams in the middle of summer. nothing compared to the spring. why? because people like to catch fish not spend the day trying to find the one that might be hiding under the log. and if you're an elitist, no I don't fly fish because it's cool or more challenging. I find it works way better than other methods and that's why i do it. again to catch fish not to fish for them.
I love the pursuit/nature aspect. However, i do go out with the intention of catching them. if it were just for casting practice i would just stay in my backyard. go to vermont and see how many people are fly fishing these famous streams in the middle of summer. nothing compared to the spring. why? because people like to catch fish not spend the day trying to find the one that might be hiding under the log. and if you're an elitist, no I don't fly fish because it's cool or more challenging. I find it works way better than other methods and that's why i do it. again to catch fish not to fish for them.
Last edited:
eddavidson9
how's that for a slice of fried gold
just tryin to help you out bud. those that talk too much sometimes have the problem of not being able to hear more knowledgeable opinions over their own.
i guess i'm one of those idiots banging my head against a wall...ive only been fly fishing for a short time, but find a way to do it 12 months a year. you're probably right though...all those fish that get caught outside of may and june are probably imaginary.
i guess i'm one of those idiots banging my head against a wall...ive only been fly fishing for a short time, but find a way to do it 12 months a year. you're probably right though...all those fish that get caught outside of may and june are probably imaginary.
