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Names for a new guide!!! NEED HELP!
- Thread starter Simms
- Start date
Tight Louper
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
AIDS is catchy. Your guide hooks up with the right clients, he can catch AIDS all day long. AIDS Guiding Service.
steve b
New member
Simms,
the name of the guide service should be the least of his worries. Just haveing a catchy name and a web site is not enough. has he ever actually guided anyone who could give him a good review? not a buddy he was fishing with but someone he set the rod asisde for and actually put them into fish? Has he gotten insurance yet? License for NY waters will require him to have a first aide cerrtifacte. Does he have the extra equipment in the event a potential client needs some. I have been guiding for the last 13 years and each year a large chunk of what I make goes back into equipment that has been abused by clients. i am not talking about rods those have warranties, waders, wading boots, reels lines replacing leaders and tippets. I know the one biggest thing your buddy needs to do, if he already does not tie flies start, with a beginner you could go thru 2 dozen flies easily. The biggest thing to remember keep, in the back of his mind, he will not be fishing. If he becomes serious about it and get clients the best fishing days will be spent guiding, he will learn to fish the BAD days. The last point has actually made me a better fly fishermen having only days when you can get out being less than ideal ones you learn quick were fish hold in bad weather / muddy high water. I wish him luck
Steve
the name of the guide service should be the least of his worries. Just haveing a catchy name and a web site is not enough. has he ever actually guided anyone who could give him a good review? not a buddy he was fishing with but someone he set the rod asisde for and actually put them into fish? Has he gotten insurance yet? License for NY waters will require him to have a first aide cerrtifacte. Does he have the extra equipment in the event a potential client needs some. I have been guiding for the last 13 years and each year a large chunk of what I make goes back into equipment that has been abused by clients. i am not talking about rods those have warranties, waders, wading boots, reels lines replacing leaders and tippets. I know the one biggest thing your buddy needs to do, if he already does not tie flies start, with a beginner you could go thru 2 dozen flies easily. The biggest thing to remember keep, in the back of his mind, he will not be fishing. If he becomes serious about it and get clients the best fishing days will be spent guiding, he will learn to fish the BAD days. The last point has actually made me a better fly fishermen having only days when you can get out being less than ideal ones you learn quick were fish hold in bad weather / muddy high water. I wish him luck
Steve
Last edited:
Simms
New member
Steve,
Thank you for the generous reply...He is not making a living out of this guiding endeavor, just some mad money and the ability to help further establish a fly fishing spark in those who he comes accross...Awesome points about equipment...I assume having "back up" equipment is the hardest part...Trying to fund that extra stuff will surely hurt the beginning guide...
Thank you for the generous reply...He is not making a living out of this guiding endeavor, just some mad money and the ability to help further establish a fly fishing spark in those who he comes accross...Awesome points about equipment...I assume having "back up" equipment is the hardest part...Trying to fund that extra stuff will surely hurt the beginning guide...
brachycentrus
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Yup,
Before my oars even hit the water, I paid roughly $1700 for the various state licenses, National Park Permits and liability insurance this year.
Then throw in the equipment costs and this year the insane gas prices which also affect shuttle fees and you start to get the picture.
Before my oars even hit the water, I paid roughly $1700 for the various state licenses, National Park Permits and liability insurance this year.
Then throw in the equipment costs and this year the insane gas prices which also affect shuttle fees and you start to get the picture.
dcabarle
Administrator
Thanks for posting this. When I first started going out with guides, I thought the prices were too high. Then considering everything that's put into your business, I can't figure out how you really earn a living or support a family from this job. You guys deserve what you can get.
To list a few other things you may not have mentioned...
400 bux for a guided float trip. The Delaware River guides are the BEST. More often then not, you'll see these guys on the stream fishing into the dark. I'm not sure what time you guys typically put in but let's say 9hrs average? 400/9 = 44.4 bux an hour. Out of that 44.00/hr. Factor in the shuttle service ($25.+), gas, food, and dealing with child like clients who think you're the magic fish god. That in itself is the most challenging and I give you guys a lot of credit for being able to deal with people like this. You forgot to mention the 4500.00(used) or $6500/+ for the boats you float with.
Some may say that 44.44/hr is pretty good money but consider this... Cancelled trips, weather, and warm water cancellations have to be factored in. So while a guide might receive 400.00 for a trip, consider the above costs and factors. Now, what does a guide really make? It's not a lot. Some do it because they love it others do it... well, not for the money, that's for sure.
If you book through an outfitter, the guide makes even less because the outfitter has to get their cut of the action too. This is any business, not just guiding.
Next time you go out with a guide, thank him for his hard work, patience, and knowledge. If you don't catch anything, most likely it's not the guides fault (unless you stay at this place I know of in Twin Bridges, MO where the guides might even dig through your bags and steal your shit while you're not looking (and I'm not kidding) and keep in mind all of the expenses that go into your expesive day out.
brachycentrus
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Thanks Dennis,
One thing also. If we are scheduled to meet a client at say 10:00, we have already put a couple hours in, getting gas, scouting sections to float, looking at flow charts, weather etc and getting lunches and setting up shuttles, all ofthe unseen, mundane, but necessary stuff.
Thanks.
skipper3245
Barbless Hooks save lives
You cant just guide out of no where...you need to be an outfitter. And you cant just be and outfitter from scratch. you need a few years before they will throw you that license. Then liability, independent contracting fees, taxes, the list goes on. here is the name...are you ready for it....
LINE SCREAMERS. zzzzzzzzzvvvvvvvvvvvvzzzzvvvvvvv
LINE SCREAMERS. zzzzzzzzzvvvvvvvvvvvvzzzzvvvvvvv
brachycentrus
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Skipper,
Thats the way it is out West, but here in the East with the exception of New York and Pennsylvania, you dont even need a license.
Ct. and NJ requires a fishing license and you can be a guide.
New York administers a test and has multiple certifications and requires all Red Cross and water safety courses. Pennsylvania just wants the check.
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
About what percent of guides on the D have "jobs/careers" in addition to guiding?
BrownChickenBrownTrout
New member
Here's a question. If your buddy is just looking for a "Little mad money" and a way to make his hobby earn some money for him why doesn't he become a contractor?
Find a fly Shop/Guide Shop and let them do the scheduling work etc for you. They can weed out the clients, take the credit card charges, get the guide pricing on equipment etc. Like it or not, your friend is going to be in sales. If he's a good salesman he'll be able to sell himself to a shop.
Not for nothing, my Dad use to always tell me "Mechanics make the worst shop owners", is your friend a mechanic or a shop owner. I suspect if he just wants to throw flys, and get paid for it, he's just a mechanic.
Find a fly Shop/Guide Shop and let them do the scheduling work etc for you. They can weed out the clients, take the credit card charges, get the guide pricing on equipment etc. Like it or not, your friend is going to be in sales. If he's a good salesman he'll be able to sell himself to a shop.
Not for nothing, my Dad use to always tell me "Mechanics make the worst shop owners", is your friend a mechanic or a shop owner. I suspect if he just wants to throw flys, and get paid for it, he's just a mechanic.
skipper3245
Barbless Hooks save lives
my bad then. Is that why fish and game stop me whenever im on a boat in NY accusing me of guiding...i guess so
dcabarle
Administrator
33.3%. I'm sure of this.
---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------
Yes... Here's something to chew on:
http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBullet...t19322-beware-asshole-rangers-boat-ramps.html
We were pulled over by a ranger who was floating down the Madison in a pontoon boat. He was what the NY rangers ought to be. He was courteous, respectful, and capable of a conversation. The rangers in NY are DOUCHEBAGS.
skipper3245
Barbless Hooks save lives
Yeah. I never mind being asked for my guides license or being checked for jackets and 3rd oar, but being accused after saying I am out here for pleasure is not something I want to deal with.
bkill
Quest for the Two Headed Trout
I am confused...Was the river frozen when those douchbag NY Rangers checked you...It could have been worse, you could have ran into a Bruin...:dizzy:
Simms
New member
Guys,
Thank you...didn't thik I was going to get the pesimism, but ill take it all...
Skip,
I am going to respectifully disagree with you on the "you need to be with an outfitter first" yada yada... There are now something like 43 registered guides who float the Salmon River right now...Almost ALL are booked SOLID during Fall/Winter/Spring...And If they cater to the brown trout dudes for the summer, they have a concrete schedule all year...I will bet you 90% are one man bands with no prior outiftter experience...He has guided in MASS "on the side" for years now, so he knows the logistics...
As for the "he must be a mechanic part", that is the funniest thing I have ever heard... You should get your stuff published...
Thanks for all the tips help guys!!! Tight lines!!
Thank you...didn't thik I was going to get the pesimism, but ill take it all...
Skip,
I am going to respectifully disagree with you on the "you need to be with an outfitter first" yada yada... There are now something like 43 registered guides who float the Salmon River right now...Almost ALL are booked SOLID during Fall/Winter/Spring...And If they cater to the brown trout dudes for the summer, they have a concrete schedule all year...I will bet you 90% are one man bands with no prior outiftter experience...He has guided in MASS "on the side" for years now, so he knows the logistics...
As for the "he must be a mechanic part", that is the funniest thing I have ever heard... You should get your stuff published...
Thanks for all the tips help guys!!! Tight lines!!
skipper3245
Barbless Hooks save lives
Yeah i found that they dont do it that way in NY. out west you need 150 hours now under another outfitter and pass a test. If there is demand do it up, but you gotta get ur name out somehow if you dont have a shop to run out of. i would advise your friend to start under an outfitter to get some repeat business. unless he already has some very strong leads.
brough
get out and go fishing
PA. does not just get a check. They require Red Cross Lifesaving, first aid, and CPR certs., liability insurance cert. (very expensive when you tell the insurance lady that you will be taking people on boats in fastwater) and then last but not least the Check.
brachycentrus
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Yea, all of the above which any self respecting guide should have but also a discriminatory $400 annual fee for non residents versus $100 for Pa. residents for border water that enjoys reciprocity for fishing licenses and where Pa guides enjoyed a free ride from NY for all these years.
The fee structure was a result of an ad hoc committee of resident guides and charter boat captains recommendations, so yea, this is a sore spot.
brachycentrus
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Also do not require an outdoor skills/survivability test, water safety/rescue or boating certifications.
Basically, the Pennsylvania guide licensing was just a money grab and an attempt to chase non resident guides off the Delaware and Susquhanna rivers.
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
When you make money floating down the border waters of NY/PA/NJ, which state gets your income tax?
Pete
Trout Hunter
Will he be guiding on any particular water body?
Perhaps he could incorporate the name of the stream into the name (make sure not to duplicate another service),
If he'll be guiding on several water bodies in the same area, a county, or region, name could be used (again avoid duplication).
Is his own name (or nickname) recognizable as a prominent fisherman?
If so, consider making that part of the name.
Perhaps he could incorporate the name of the stream into the name (make sure not to duplicate another service),
If he'll be guiding on several water bodies in the same area, a county, or region, name could be used (again avoid duplication).
Is his own name (or nickname) recognizable as a prominent fisherman?
If so, consider making that part of the name.
Joe D
Registered User
Unfortunately, the PA system is easy to defraud. They ask for no proof of CPR, first aid or insurance. They simply ask that you fill in the blanks. A couple of years ago I was shopping quotes for my business and called the PFBC to ask the name of the companies that guides were putting on their applications so I had an idea of who was writing the business. The company name I was given as the number one company was a company who told me when I called that they don't write outfitters & guides policies. Seems like many were just putting their auto insurance policy in the blank on the PFBC form. When I called the commission and told them this they said they don't have the time to check this stuff out.
PA does not have a guide license. It is technically a permit. The PFBC generally does an excellent job, but they dropped the ball on this one. When they hatched the idea to collect a fee they said one of the reasons was they didn't know who the guides were. If that was the case, how did they select a committee of guides to sit on a committee? And a committee that apparently just did what the executive director at the time wanted.
---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------
Dennis,
To quote the late Jack Gartside, "I don't make much of a living, but I make a hell of a life"
brachycentrus
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Last year, I floated the Pa. Speaker of the House of Reps. This wasnt just arbitrarily enacted by PFBC, it had to go through the legislature. He was completely oblivious to the disparity as it was probably buried somewhere on another bill that passed.
I,m floating him again on Friday and I,m tempted to bend his ear again on this, but I took a good behavior vow this year.
TR
"You can observe a lot just by watching." Y. Berra
To answer John's question regarding what state you reside in and income:
The National Park Service requires that ALL licensed guides (NY, PA, MD, CT, NJ, etc...) have a valid PFBC Guide Permit to guide for hire on the Upper Delaware River.
If you do not, the National Park Service will not process your annual permit and you will not work. It's as simple as that.
Those are those NPS arrowhead decals with numbers that you see on the sides of driftboats on the Upper Delaware River. They change the colors every two years.
That means that regardless of where you live, you have to receive a PAFBC annual permit BEFORE NPS processes your application which are $100.00 to PA residents and $400.00 to non-PA residents - EVEN IF YOU FISH A BORDER WATER such as the Upper Delaware River.
It makes no difference that there is fishing license reciprocity on the UDR.
This was enacted by Doug Austen, long departed from PAFBC. See links below.
Joey, you had better hope with the fiscal mess both NY and PA are in, that Martens and the NYS DEC doesn't follow the same lead as Penna and charge non-resident NYS guides quadruple as well.
Imagine.
You are a New Jersey resident that wishes to legally guide for hire on the UDR:
1. You fork over $400.00 annually to PAFBC. //$400.00
2. You also pay annual monitoring fees to NPS (after you've paid Pennsyltucky) //
every other year $325.00
and
3. Fees to NYS DEC (if they were to enact a simliar law as in Pennsylvania) // $400.00
As a side note: NYS DEC has had a licensed guide program for many years (since the 1920's) which really began in the Adirondacks.
When the Pennsylvania Guide Program was first enacted about six years ago as a money grab under Austin, those of us who were NYS Licensed Guides (and still are) and guide on the Upper Delaware River questioned this duplicity to both the NPS (who oversees the UDR) and the State of Pennsylvania about guiding on a border water such as the Upper Delaware River and they could care less about non Pennsyltucky residents.
And so it goes.
Tight lines - or tight leins.
TR
www.delawareriverfishing.com
------
PFBC Executive Leaving: Doug Austen's Exit is Attributed to Philosophical Differences.
PFBC Executive Director
The National Park Service requires that ALL licensed guides (NY, PA, MD, CT, NJ, etc...) have a valid PFBC Guide Permit to guide for hire on the Upper Delaware River.
If you do not, the National Park Service will not process your annual permit and you will not work. It's as simple as that.
Those are those NPS arrowhead decals with numbers that you see on the sides of driftboats on the Upper Delaware River. They change the colors every two years.
That means that regardless of where you live, you have to receive a PAFBC annual permit BEFORE NPS processes your application which are $100.00 to PA residents and $400.00 to non-PA residents - EVEN IF YOU FISH A BORDER WATER such as the Upper Delaware River.
It makes no difference that there is fishing license reciprocity on the UDR.
This was enacted by Doug Austen, long departed from PAFBC. See links below.
Joey, you had better hope with the fiscal mess both NY and PA are in, that Martens and the NYS DEC doesn't follow the same lead as Penna and charge non-resident NYS guides quadruple as well.
Imagine.
You are a New Jersey resident that wishes to legally guide for hire on the UDR:
1. You fork over $400.00 annually to PAFBC. //$400.00
2. You also pay annual monitoring fees to NPS (after you've paid Pennsyltucky) //
every other year $325.00
and
3. Fees to NYS DEC (if they were to enact a simliar law as in Pennsylvania) // $400.00
As a side note: NYS DEC has had a licensed guide program for many years (since the 1920's) which really began in the Adirondacks.
When the Pennsylvania Guide Program was first enacted about six years ago as a money grab under Austin, those of us who were NYS Licensed Guides (and still are) and guide on the Upper Delaware River questioned this duplicity to both the NPS (who oversees the UDR) and the State of Pennsylvania about guiding on a border water such as the Upper Delaware River and they could care less about non Pennsyltucky residents.
And so it goes.
Tight lines - or tight leins.
TR
www.delawareriverfishing.com
------
PFBC Executive Leaving: Doug Austen's Exit is Attributed to Philosophical Differences.
PFBC Executive Director
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
TR
"You can observe a lot just by watching." Y. Berra
J.,
Annual income tax is paid to the state you are a legal resident of.
However if you are a resident of NYS and work a salary job in say - PA, you would still pay your annual income to the Feds and NYS - however, PA will take out $$$ out of weekly paycheck as well.
TR
Annual income tax is paid to the state you are a legal resident of.
However if you are a resident of NYS and work a salary job in say - PA, you would still pay your annual income to the Feds and NYS - however, PA will take out $$$ out of weekly paycheck as well.
TR
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