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Van Campens Question
- Thread starter CR
- Start date
Agust
Resident TU Rat Bastard
I caught my first wild rainbow in the village in the late 1980's. Most of the ones I have caught have been from the Ponds (Where the new parking and bathrooms are) upstream to the stone wall where the old model T frame is. But I have seen 1 or 2 as far downriver as DePew Bridge and caught one in the upper waterfall pool in the mid 1990's.
Their population swings quite a bit and some years I see very few, other years they appear all over. There was a monster that lived under the old bridge in the Village, I caught him regularly for about 4 years. Saw him grow from 12 to 16 inches, then he just disappeared about 10 years ago.
I suspect there have been wild rainbows in there for a very long time.
Their population swings quite a bit and some years I see very few, other years they appear all over. There was a monster that lived under the old bridge in the Village, I caught him regularly for about 4 years. Saw him grow from 12 to 16 inches, then he just disappeared about 10 years ago.
I suspect there have been wild rainbows in there for a very long time.
Empty Creel
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Saw it mentioned somewhere that they stopped stocking VCB long ago (sometime in the 60s). Could the bows trace back to then?
Mike Ridolfino
Wild trout stalker
If it isn't a brook trout, it was originally a stocked fish(as you're probably already aware). In the Van Campens they eventually became a self sustaining population sometime after 1979, which is the last year I can find a record of stocking. I've been fishing the Van Campens for the last three seasons at least once a month all year. I've caught fewer rainbows than brook or brown trout, and most of them came farther upstream.
The bows have been there a long time. In early 70's I used to camp and fish about 3/4 mile upstream of Millbrook village and they were always there. The Coldwater Management Plan shows wild brooks, browns, and bows in VCB with a last sampled date of 1984 (VCB with Flanders Bk are the only streams in NJ with wild brooks, browns, and bows). Maybe they are the result of state stocking of bows which goes back to 1914? Maybe they originally came from the old club where the falls are? Maybe they came from some of those old efforts to introduce steelhead to the VCB/Delaware R? In my impression, browns have been becoming more prevalent at the expense of the brooks and bows over the years.
Why rainbows don't acclimate well in NJ has been discussed a lot on the other boards and Bob S did work on VCB back in the early 70's when NJ biologists started more emphasis on wild trout. One theory is the acid pulse of the spring snow melt. Rainbows being spring spawners are more affected by the quick melting of frozen "acid rain" than the fall spawners whose fry are further along during snow melt. Rainbow reproduction was non-existent in the VCB in heavy snow years and some warm winters led to bumper crops. Around 4 or 5 years ago tiny bows were thick around Millbrook. Some claim that the wild rainbow streams in NJ need a lake in the headwaters that can buffer the pH in the spring - seems like it would help although that doesn't seem to be the whole story to me.
Why rainbows don't acclimate well in NJ has been discussed a lot on the other boards and Bob S did work on VCB back in the early 70's when NJ biologists started more emphasis on wild trout. One theory is the acid pulse of the spring snow melt. Rainbows being spring spawners are more affected by the quick melting of frozen "acid rain" than the fall spawners whose fry are further along during snow melt. Rainbow reproduction was non-existent in the VCB in heavy snow years and some warm winters led to bumper crops. Around 4 or 5 years ago tiny bows were thick around Millbrook. Some claim that the wild rainbow streams in NJ need a lake in the headwaters that can buffer the pH in the spring - seems like it would help although that doesn't seem to be the whole story to me.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Jeff - I agree, not the whole story. Flanders Brook for example is mainly a free-stone and gets all sorts of snow melt/run-off from local roads and from rt. 206 (3 lanes in most of that area, even 4 for short stretches), yet it has naturally reproducing rainbows. I don't have the answers, but agree that it is not a "lake buffering" only situation.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
By the way, Van Campens and Flanders Brook are 2 of 3 rivers in NJ with all three species of naturally reproducing trout. The SBR is the 3rd. One could argue it is tribs of the SBR that contribute the rainbows, but I have seen mainstem spawning although I have no way of knowing if those spawning attempts are successful. Still, the KLG to name one spot, has all three species of wild fish and all are caught with regularity. Van Campens and Flanders Brook are seeing all 3 spawn in those streams for certain. The SBR may be influenced by its tribs...
The Whippany may be in that camp too. The Whippany has wild rainbows and browns and only has one trib with brookies left (at least according to the DFGW). However, the last few years some of my TU chapter members have been getting a rare tiny brookie or two and I got one last spring.
I've caught 'bows from the village down through DePew as well but in my experience it seems the highest concentrations and/or core area is from Watergate to the bottom of the upper glen. This would more or less fall in line with Agust's observations, and likewise I agree the pop. does experience wide swings.
One thing I have noticed though, beginning in the late '80s it seemed the brookie pop took a serious decline while the brown pop nearly exploded. Countless lies that for years had always produced decent brooks were now inhabited by browns.
I agree with Jeff and Brian that Ph is a very important factor in 'bow reproduction. As for the impact of a lake in the headwaters, tough call there. The VCB has lakes in it's headwaters as does the SBR. I think there's far more to the dynamics than just that factor. For example Brian mentioned the 'bow pop. in Flanders despite the heavy runoff from adjacent roads. It's quite possible that runoff may actually contribute to a higher Ph since all the snow/ice melting products used by the DOT are calcium based, whether salt (calcium/sodium) or calcium chloride. At the least these products may reduce the acidity potential of the snowmelt runoff. An interesting conundrum to ponder.
One thing I have noticed though, beginning in the late '80s it seemed the brookie pop took a serious decline while the brown pop nearly exploded. Countless lies that for years had always produced decent brooks were now inhabited by browns.
I agree with Jeff and Brian that Ph is a very important factor in 'bow reproduction. As for the impact of a lake in the headwaters, tough call there. The VCB has lakes in it's headwaters as does the SBR. I think there's far more to the dynamics than just that factor. For example Brian mentioned the 'bow pop. in Flanders despite the heavy runoff from adjacent roads. It's quite possible that runoff may actually contribute to a higher Ph since all the snow/ice melting products used by the DOT are calcium based, whether salt (calcium/sodium) or calcium chloride. At the least these products may reduce the acidity potential of the snowmelt runoff. An interesting conundrum to ponder.
NJAngler
Daily trifecta - brookies, browns and rainbows.
Well actually the lakes ARE the source of the pH problem, not the stream itself. Long Pine Pond especially is nearly sterile with pH some years <4. Blue Mt isn't so bad with pH varying between 5.5 and 6.5 i know because I've worked in a lab for years and have conducted many tests on NJ/Pa streams on my own. VCB generally runs around 6.6 to 6.8.
There are other ponds(like Donkey Hollow) which most people don't know about which contribute low pH as well. Acidic snow melt has the biggest impact on bows because it occurs simultaneously with rainbow spawning/ egg incubation periods.
VCB also has many small springs in the headwaters which help raise the pH as well. They are tiny but flow in with pH's ~7.5 to as high as 9.
Highest density has always been(in my nearly 30 years) the 1 mile section either side of Millbrook Rd. Some years its 2:1 bows while other times its 10:1 brook.
Largest encountered went about 16" but have hooked/seen larger up to 21-22". Avg size is only about 7".
There are other ponds(like Donkey Hollow) which most people don't know about which contribute low pH as well. Acidic snow melt has the biggest impact on bows because it occurs simultaneously with rainbow spawning/ egg incubation periods.
VCB also has many small springs in the headwaters which help raise the pH as well. They are tiny but flow in with pH's ~7.5 to as high as 9.
Highest density has always been(in my nearly 30 years) the 1 mile section either side of Millbrook Rd. Some years its 2:1 bows while other times its 10:1 brook.
Largest encountered went about 16" but have hooked/seen larger up to 21-22". Avg size is only about 7".
quality time
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
I've not fished VCB, and now think I won't bother. There must be a lot of stupid fish there, striking all those in line spinners you flail around!
Q.T.
Well thank goodness, great news indeed.
quality time
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Well, Mark has a friend on a forum outside of TST after all.
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NJAngler
Daily trifecta - brookies, browns and rainbows.
Below are pix of some wild trout I caught last week using fly gear. I guess these fish are of the smart variety right?
I've never met Ryan R and he'd be the first to tell you I can fight my own battles.
As for trebles: its within the rules. if the NJDFGW makes it barbless, single hook I wouldn't complain one bit and would strongly support it. I do on occasion fish single hooks but find I lose many more trout and that gets frustrating in a hurry. Fly fishing can be good but I find its takes more time and more patience - and i really lack patience. I like to move/fish fast and get on to my next stop.
Mark
I've never met Ryan R and he'd be the first to tell you I can fight my own battles.
As for trebles: its within the rules. if the NJDFGW makes it barbless, single hook I wouldn't complain one bit and would strongly support it. I do on occasion fish single hooks but find I lose many more trout and that gets frustrating in a hurry. Fly fishing can be good but I find its takes more time and more patience - and i really lack patience. I like to move/fish fast and get on to my next stop.
Mark
Attachments
Mark can fight his own battles just fine. I just thought it was great news that one less angler will be out there pressuring a stream. The less the better in my book. :looser:
quality time
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Yep, those are the smart ones!
As far as the trebles go, we've had that debate before. You're right, it's perfectly legal and you have the right to do it. I would like to see you switch over to the single hooks 100% of the time. It's too much of a numbers game for you......you catch so many fish, so what if you lose a few more.
Glad to hear you wouldn't fight a ban on the trebles!
Q.T.
It would still be 3 species of trout. A tiger is not a species of trout but rather a hybrid cross of two seperate species. In this case a brown trout and brook trout, that paired and mated successfully.
homebrewflyfish
I make beer and I catch fish. What else do I need?
Is it worth fishing VCB with a 9' 5wt? Seems like a small brook, so would it be better with a smaller rod? I assume it's mostly roll-casts and no false casting given close cover?
Also, do most fly fisherman in there go with nymphs or dries?
Been thinking about checking it out just to see if I can handle some more difficult conditions.
Also, do most fly fisherman in there go with nymphs or dries?
Been thinking about checking it out just to see if I can handle some more difficult conditions.
I wouldn't complain if you use a 9' 5 wt - it is a versatile rod.
Like anywhere, the fish are on nymphs 90% of the time and on dries 10% of the time, although late in the season on those small streams the fish will generally notice dries. I ike a 7 1/2' 4 wt for dries and a 10' rod for nymphs. 9' is a compromise.
Like anywhere, the fish are on nymphs 90% of the time and on dries 10% of the time, although late in the season on those small streams the fish will generally notice dries. I ike a 7 1/2' 4 wt for dries and a 10' rod for nymphs. 9' is a compromise.
Mike Ridolfino
Wild trout stalker
I can't really think of a single spot on the Van Campens where a 9' rod would be too long. Its a pretty open stream with plenty of room to cast. I've probably caught an equal number of fish on nymphs versus dries.
coolkyle
De nalgas!
On those streams lined with impassible brush and trees, do you guys ever find it amazing that you can somehow false cast? Sometimes I feel like I have eyes on the back of my head, my back-cast is more accurate than my fore-cast.
I went up to VCB this weekend for the first time. Hiked along the river for a good bit on Friday (w/o gear just to get a lay of the land) and then came back on Saturday with fly gear. My 9' 3# did me well.
Got into a few tiny (magical) brookies and a 9-10" brown...all on the same dry fly.
I must say however, at a certain point I got the feeling that I was going to run into a bear at any moment. Anyone ever have an encounters up there? Esp in/around the gorge? On my way out I did see a big porcupine which was pretty crazy.
Got into a few tiny (magical) brookies and a 9-10" brown...all on the same dry fly.
I must say however, at a certain point I got the feeling that I was going to run into a bear at any moment. Anyone ever have an encounters up there? Esp in/around the gorge? On my way out I did see a big porcupine which was pretty crazy.
mbwmn
“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”
don't you guys use bear bells?
once you get a set of bells tied onto a bear they'll almost never surprise you again....
