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U.S. Fly Fishing Nationals
- Thread starter CreekAddict
- Start date
Hi GaryB:
Competative fishing in general is bad for lakes and streams. When you look at the Bass Masters the fish are caught in various spots through out a lake and brought in for a weigh in and then released in one generic spot. This does ruin the fishing in the lake for a lot of others. I do know that Fly fishing is differnt in this regards. I just don't believe in compition in fly fishing when it's suppose to be a relaxing peacefull sport that places one in nature where your suppose to relax, unwind and forget about life for awhile.
I believe in different strokes for different folks and see no wrong with it as long as it does not involve me or where I am fishing at the time. If I know a competition is going to occur on a stream in advance then I know to go somewhere else for the day.
Now far as this competition I feel the anglers need to tye and supply there own flies in order to compete and win.
Lastly, a question for the board. Does being in a competition in fishing make you a better angler?
Competative fishing in general is bad for lakes and streams. When you look at the Bass Masters the fish are caught in various spots through out a lake and brought in for a weigh in and then released in one generic spot. This does ruin the fishing in the lake for a lot of others. I do know that Fly fishing is differnt in this regards. I just don't believe in compition in fly fishing when it's suppose to be a relaxing peacefull sport that places one in nature where your suppose to relax, unwind and forget about life for awhile.
I believe in different strokes for different folks and see no wrong with it as long as it does not involve me or where I am fishing at the time. If I know a competition is going to occur on a stream in advance then I know to go somewhere else for the day.
Now far as this competition I feel the anglers need to tye and supply there own flies in order to compete and win.
Lastly, a question for the board. Does being in a competition in fishing make you a better angler?
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comparadun
..........
It's all a bunch of happy horse shit.
That said, I must to go now to practice my:
Czech, Euro, High Sticking, Riff-Rap, Slicky picky, Toony Moony, Seam Picking, Bubble Line, Hairtron, Slack-cast, Deep Express, Deep Penetration, Googling, Up-Top, Light Bulb, Flymph, Side-by-Side, Slow Motion, Fast Motion, Medium Motion, Whirling, Twirling, Girgling, Fast Tunnel, Juggies, Pupa, Reach, Umteen, Toilet Seat, STP(sewage treatment plant), Tight Line, Slack Line, NO line, Slump Busters, Bump Busters, Rump Busters nymphing.
The CDun.
That said, I must to go now to practice my:
Czech, Euro, High Sticking, Riff-Rap, Slicky picky, Toony Moony, Seam Picking, Bubble Line, Hairtron, Slack-cast, Deep Express, Deep Penetration, Googling, Up-Top, Light Bulb, Flymph, Side-by-Side, Slow Motion, Fast Motion, Medium Motion, Whirling, Twirling, Girgling, Fast Tunnel, Juggies, Pupa, Reach, Umteen, Toilet Seat, STP(sewage treatment plant), Tight Line, Slack Line, NO line, Slump Busters, Bump Busters, Rump Busters nymphing.
The CDun.
Better angler? - maybe. However, it should help you catch more fish (is better angler only about catching more fish?). First, you have a real benchmark to see where you stand and how you can improve. We all probably consider ourselves experts, but rarely have that put to the test. Second, hanging around a bunch of experienced fishermen is bound show you a few new tricks and help keep up with new developments. Since it is a competition where the results are open to all you see what really works and who is blowing smoke. Of course catching more fish stills means practice and not just showing up.
When I was a grad student at NC State I lived next to a pro bass fisherman and scout for the old ABC fishing shows. His ability to catch big fish in any wet spot (he caught a 10 lbs largemouth in the apartment drainage pond to illustrate that big fish are everywhere) far exceeded anyone else I have ever fished with and he was not at the top of the standings. He always caught huge fish anywhere, anytime, any conditions, any species, fly, spin, or baitcasting and sure put my "expertise" in its proper place. When he recommended a place to go or a technique to try I listened.
Whether that is what you want or does catching more fish mean better angler are other questions.
Congrats AJ - good to be in the top group.
When I was a grad student at NC State I lived next to a pro bass fisherman and scout for the old ABC fishing shows. His ability to catch big fish in any wet spot (he caught a 10 lbs largemouth in the apartment drainage pond to illustrate that big fish are everywhere) far exceeded anyone else I have ever fished with and he was not at the top of the standings. He always caught huge fish anywhere, anytime, any conditions, any species, fly, spin, or baitcasting and sure put my "expertise" in its proper place. When he recommended a place to go or a technique to try I listened.
Whether that is what you want or does catching more fish mean better angler are other questions.
Congrats AJ - good to be in the top group.
CreekAddict
Pure and Simple
You make a good point, Jeffk.
Being open minded, and learning new techniques is one of the major reasons these guys are the best in the nation. By best in the nation, I mean they can go to any stream or lake, in any condition, and catch fish. Always practicing, always trying to be better, and surrounding yourself with some of the best talent in the business will no doubt make you a better angler. I think it's funny that some people will try to make fun of the techniques these guys use.
If you think you are the best angler you know, well, you need to meet some new people.
Being open minded, and learning new techniques is one of the major reasons these guys are the best in the nation. By best in the nation, I mean they can go to any stream or lake, in any condition, and catch fish. Always practicing, always trying to be better, and surrounding yourself with some of the best talent in the business will no doubt make you a better angler. I think it's funny that some people will try to make fun of the techniques these guys use.
If you think you are the best angler you know, well, you need to meet some new people.
Trout Nazi
And...Boom goes the dynamite.
If being a better angler means catching more fish, then competition would probably make you better. Competition usually makes you better no matter what it is you're doing. Forces you to address your weak points, observe, learn more from others and their mistakes, and practice, practice, practice.
As far as all the haters go, whats wrong with someone trying to be the best at what they're doing? Usually, you need competition to measure who's best. Considering there is a competition for just about every hobby and sport on the planet, whats wrong with competition fly fishing?
AJ, good job at laying the ass-hattery on the competition and showing them some East Coast skills.
As far as all the haters go, whats wrong with someone trying to be the best at what they're doing? Usually, you need competition to measure who's best. Considering there is a competition for just about every hobby and sport on the planet, whats wrong with competition fly fishing?
AJ, good job at laying the ass-hattery on the competition and showing them some East Coast skills.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
How about let folks that want to compete..you know compete..if you want to do it for relaxation...well thats fine too. No reason you cant do both.
CreekAddict
Pure and Simple
So you're saying 50 elite anglers, who release the fish unharmed, (these guys are the best of the best, they know how to handle a fish) are somehow ruining the environment.
They fish on mostly popular, public streams. Where on any given weekend, 50 retards can go and handle a fish any way they want.
They pick up all trash left behind. They make sure all fish are handled safely. They make sure no one fishes over reds, or even egg flies to spawning fish. Whereas any retard can go to that stream and fish the redds. If you ask me it's 50 anglers who know what they are doing, and care more about the fisheries than the average joe.
So tell me, how exactly is this a joke, and how are they beating the river to hell?
They fish on mostly popular, public streams. Where on any given weekend, 50 retards can go and handle a fish any way they want.
They pick up all trash left behind. They make sure all fish are handled safely. They make sure no one fishes over reds, or even egg flies to spawning fish. Whereas any retard can go to that stream and fish the redds. If you ask me it's 50 anglers who know what they are doing, and care more about the fisheries than the average joe.
So tell me, how exactly is this a joke, and how are they beating the river to hell?
bluecollarbleached
New member
what is fishing over the reds?
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Redds are where the fish set up and spawn. In the fall for Browns and Brookies and spring for Rainbows its generally advised not to fish over or walk near redds so the eggs have a chance to incubate and hatch.
bluecollarbleached
New member
some people i know like to play golf competitively. when some of my friends go out, we love to get matches going.
others i know just like to go out and enjoy the round and dont give a hoot about who wins, etc.
both groups have players who respect the course. pick up garbage. replace divots. fix balls makrs. both groups have players who do none of this and add to the destruction of a beautiful piece of land. their choice to compete or not in no way dictates their respectfulness of the course.
both groups also have guys who absolutely freaking love the sport. both groups have guys who are scratch golfers and guys who are 30 handicaps.
we all have our thoughts on competitive fishing. (i found this out in the showdown thread). however, why does either opinion have to do with anything regarding ability or respect for the river?
others i know just like to go out and enjoy the round and dont give a hoot about who wins, etc.
both groups have players who respect the course. pick up garbage. replace divots. fix balls makrs. both groups have players who do none of this and add to the destruction of a beautiful piece of land. their choice to compete or not in no way dictates their respectfulness of the course.
both groups also have guys who absolutely freaking love the sport. both groups have guys who are scratch golfers and guys who are 30 handicaps.
we all have our thoughts on competitive fishing. (i found this out in the showdown thread). however, why does either opinion have to do with anything regarding ability or respect for the river?
Bamboozle
Smoking & drinking at a creek near you!
I sometimes think many fly fisherman suffer from some type of inadequacy anxiety, and express it by criticizing those that choose to take their skill set to another level.
Those can't cast beyond 40 feet always say, "most fish are caught at 30 feet or less, who needs to be able to cast a whole fly line" and the guys in these fly fishing contests, get the same scorn BASS pros do from a lot of folks who may have come in last.
It's sort of like the golfer who can't hit the long irons saying, "size doesn't matter", or does that have to do with something else?
I for one admire ANYBODY who decides that they can become a better fishermen thorough hard work, study and practice. Just because some of us, (me included) don't want to take it to that level doesn't diminish the skills these anglers possess.
As long as they abiding by the laws in the state they are having the contest in, it's all good IMHO!
Congrats to AJ!
Those can't cast beyond 40 feet always say, "most fish are caught at 30 feet or less, who needs to be able to cast a whole fly line" and the guys in these fly fishing contests, get the same scorn BASS pros do from a lot of folks who may have come in last.
It's sort of like the golfer who can't hit the long irons saying, "size doesn't matter", or does that have to do with something else?
I for one admire ANYBODY who decides that they can become a better fishermen thorough hard work, study and practice. Just because some of us, (me included) don't want to take it to that level doesn't diminish the skills these anglers possess.
As long as they abiding by the laws in the state they are having the contest in, it's all good IMHO!
Congrats to AJ!
CreekAddict
Pure and Simple
My post was in response to garyb. With the fishing competition, there is no choice. You have to abide by the rules. Barbless hooks only. If fish are spawning, you can't fish to them, or use flies that may attract them. You also must pick up your trash.
He says these competitions are a detriment to the environment, and I was simply pointing out that they are not. If he thinks they are, i'd like to know how it's more detrimental than 50 average joes fishing a stretch of stream. We all know for one, not everyone uses barbless hooks. We all know that some folks have no idea how to handle a fish. We also know that most average joes will leave god knows what behind. You can't, however, do this in a competition, as you will ged dq'd.
So, my question is to the obviously uninformed. How is this a joke?
He says these competitions are a detriment to the environment, and I was simply pointing out that they are not. If he thinks they are, i'd like to know how it's more detrimental than 50 average joes fishing a stretch of stream. We all know for one, not everyone uses barbless hooks. We all know that some folks have no idea how to handle a fish. We also know that most average joes will leave god knows what behind. You can't, however, do this in a competition, as you will ged dq'd.
So, my question is to the obviously uninformed. How is this a joke?
Compitition Flyfishing isn't something I would do personally but if your into it, there really isn't anything wrong with it.
As far as harming the environment, it couldn't be farther from the truth. The rules seem environmently freindly to the fish, and as long as they are followed strictly, there should be no harm done to the streams that they(Compititions) are held on.
As far as becomeing a better Fly Fisher due to being in a compitition, Yea maybe. But the way to become a better Fly Angler as far as I'm concerned, is hours spent on the rivers.
If your not fishing then, your not learning,and in this sport you will "ALLWAY"S" be learning something new.
And that goes for the seasoned anglers as well, they are allway's learning.
This is why Fly Fishing, in my opinion,"Never get's Old" there is allways something new and exciting to be learned and you will experiance this to your Dying day, partakeing in the Sport we here all love.
It's like a signature I have used in the past:"Fishing is fishing,but Fly Fishing is something you will allway's be learning. If you think you know it all, I'm sure your mistaken"
Good Job AJ
As far as harming the environment, it couldn't be farther from the truth. The rules seem environmently freindly to the fish, and as long as they are followed strictly, there should be no harm done to the streams that they(Compititions) are held on.
As far as becomeing a better Fly Fisher due to being in a compitition, Yea maybe. But the way to become a better Fly Angler as far as I'm concerned, is hours spent on the rivers.
If your not fishing then, your not learning,and in this sport you will "ALLWAY"S" be learning something new.
And that goes for the seasoned anglers as well, they are allway's learning.
This is why Fly Fishing, in my opinion,"Never get's Old" there is allways something new and exciting to be learned and you will experiance this to your Dying day, partakeing in the Sport we here all love.
It's like a signature I have used in the past:"Fishing is fishing,but Fly Fishing is something you will allway's be learning. If you think you know it all, I'm sure your mistaken"
Good Job AJ
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bkill
Quest for the Two Headed Trout
Final results from the Nationals...George Daniels took first place...Great job by everyone in some really tough conditions....
http://usyouthflyfishingteam.com/pdf/USNatIndividualCumulativeThrough5.pdf
http://usyouthflyfishingteam.com/pdf/USNatIndividualCumulativeThrough5.pdf
In my opinion, it's a joke, that's all, I don't need to justify it, it's an opinion. The competition in fly fishing at least for me is me trying to
outwit a trout hopefully by matching the hatch with a dry.
What's next, you going to put bleachers up at Cairn's Pool for a contest. As far they are the best of the best, that's your opinion, who cares, the average fly fisherman have the same rights on the stream as these contestants.
By the way, I only use barbless hooks and have C & R only since the early 1980s.
As far as learning more about fly fishing, the more you fish the better you should get,
I don't see why I need a competition to learn more.
This is my last response, because this could go on forever..........like the Euro nymph
thread.
outwit a trout hopefully by matching the hatch with a dry.
What's next, you going to put bleachers up at Cairn's Pool for a contest. As far they are the best of the best, that's your opinion, who cares, the average fly fisherman have the same rights on the stream as these contestants.
By the way, I only use barbless hooks and have C & R only since the early 1980s.
As far as learning more about fly fishing, the more you fish the better you should get,
I don't see why I need a competition to learn more.
This is my last response, because this could go on forever..........like the Euro nymph
thread.
Although very few of us enter formal competitions, I believe nearly all of us fly fishermen are pretty competitive.
Who doesn't get satisfaction out of catching more than your fishing buddies?
Who isn't inwardly smiling when they are catching fish at a place like Cairns Pool, Little Lehigh, KLG, etc when no one else is? Rubbing it in is bad form, but catching when others aren't does feel good to me.
On the other hand, I think very few of us would be happy if all your fishing buddies are connecting non-stop while you can't buy a bite.
I don't entirely buy the "it's just nice to be outdoors line" when someone gets the skunk. If the fish wouldn't cooperate I'd just as soon take a walk in the woods. I haven't met very many saints while fly fishing. Nice people, but no saints.
Who doesn't get satisfaction out of catching more than your fishing buddies?
Who isn't inwardly smiling when they are catching fish at a place like Cairns Pool, Little Lehigh, KLG, etc when no one else is? Rubbing it in is bad form, but catching when others aren't does feel good to me.
On the other hand, I think very few of us would be happy if all your fishing buddies are connecting non-stop while you can't buy a bite.
I don't entirely buy the "it's just nice to be outdoors line" when someone gets the skunk. If the fish wouldn't cooperate I'd just as soon take a walk in the woods. I haven't met very many saints while fly fishing. Nice people, but no saints.
CreekAddict
Pure and Simple
I never said you weren't good, or that you didn't handle the fish right. I was just pointing out, that these competitors are probably harming the stream less than 50 average joes. I never said anything about peoples rights on the streams. I also never said you need a comp. to learn more. I was just saying, in general, those guys are trying to learn everything they can. There are of course, people like me who are not competition fisherman that will do the same. I'm not the kind of guy that wants to wait for a hatch to catch fish. And when I go fishing, I'll try everything I know to catch as many as I can. That's why I'm fishing when it all comes down to it. Sure, I love being outdoors, and I love the peacefulness of it all. But most of all, I love catching fish.
Due to some of the shenanigans they are trying to pull with AJ, I probably never will give competition fishing a chance. (If you haven't heard, they are trying to take AJ's 7th place finish away from him) I just think, like with anything, the guys that push themselves to the limits, and practice and perfect new techniques, are the guys that will catch the most fish. The more tools you have in your arsenal, the more tools you have to catch fish.
I'm not trying to argue with anyone, or even justify competition fishing. I'm just giving my opinion.
Due to some of the shenanigans they are trying to pull with AJ, I probably never will give competition fishing a chance. (If you haven't heard, they are trying to take AJ's 7th place finish away from him) I just think, like with anything, the guys that push themselves to the limits, and practice and perfect new techniques, are the guys that will catch the most fish. The more tools you have in your arsenal, the more tools you have to catch fish.
I'm not trying to argue with anyone, or even justify competition fishing. I'm just giving my opinion.
eddavidson9
how's that for a slice of fried gold
id just like to point out I have not met JeffK. yet.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
I dont think anyone believes you are using treble hooks and dredging up as many trout as possible. The point and it was made as simplistic as possible was you can fish the way you like and so can guys like AJ. I highly doubt he is running around the country fishing exclusively in tournaments. I suspect he wanted to challenge himself and see how he matched up against other well respected anglers. I can understand his interest. I bet he will go out next week and probably fish by himself and have a great time. I don't understand your point about one group having rights over another group. I don't think anyone has suggested they have more rights because they are in a competition. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but its just kind of strange. Its almost like you see stadiums of screaming fans cheering on their favorite flyfisherman on your favorite stream and booing those fisherman that are not in the competition. I highly doubt that will ever happen. So relax and go fishing. Its all good
CreekAddict
Pure and Simple
Exactly my point.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Truer words have never been spoken. When I fish with my brother and brother n law...It can get a little crazy.
jlajoie
Can I commute to Missoula from here?
Although, I have definitely been known to use the "It's just nice to be outside" line when things aren't going my way...
Trout Nazi
And...Boom goes the dynamite.
What they're doing to AJ sounds pretty lame. I've heard that this team USA thing is kind of a "boys club". Same group of guys, won't let many other people break in. Kind of sad. If this is really the case, then team USA deserves to have its ass waxed by the Europeans every year.
Drossi
If they can't take joke .....'em
That's why I fish alone most often, then I can always out fish that other asshole I'm with.
Reply #244 on: Today at 12:21:40 AM »
The latest from John Ford the Chairman of the Organizing Committee who I was directed to by Anthony Naranja, captain of Team USA:
"Justin...the sector judge verifies that Aaron tried to put a colored bead on the line and claimed that he thought "it was changed"...this is absolutely not true...there was no change....this has nothing to do with asking if this fly is OK...that is a separate issue and a non issue...it never came up.I emphatically made the statement at the captains' meeting Friday night.....no colored beads and everyone agreed...apparently except one person..he got caught trying to tie it on....that is the only reason he got DQ'd *unanimously* by his peers at the Captains' meeting...........it's time for him to step up to the plate and admit what he did...and I might add, I had many complaints about his behavior all weekend...he was quite rude and arrogant to controllers ....all of them and stalled starting times..this is now a dead issue for me..please do not contact me any further on this issue...if you or he have any questions regarding other rules take it up with Anthony or Walter
John"
The latest from John Ford the Chairman of the Organizing Committee who I was directed to by Anthony Naranja, captain of Team USA:
"Justin...the sector judge verifies that Aaron tried to put a colored bead on the line and claimed that he thought "it was changed"...this is absolutely not true...there was no change....this has nothing to do with asking if this fly is OK...that is a separate issue and a non issue...it never came up.I emphatically made the statement at the captains' meeting Friday night.....no colored beads and everyone agreed...apparently except one person..he got caught trying to tie it on....that is the only reason he got DQ'd *unanimously* by his peers at the Captains' meeting...........it's time for him to step up to the plate and admit what he did...and I might add, I had many complaints about his behavior all weekend...he was quite rude and arrogant to controllers ....all of them and stalled starting times..this is now a dead issue for me..please do not contact me any further on this issue...if you or he have any questions regarding other rules take it up with Anthony or Walter
John"
The last time I check this was a fly fishing contest right? Not a good behavior exhibition. The fly in question never got put in the water. I took it out of my fly box during the 30 minute prep time. There are two sides of the story just wait! The comlaint was brought up while everyone was eating dinner on the last day. That was over 60 hours after the supposed infraction took place. Any discrepancy has to be filed 2 hours after the end of the session in question.
