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nano resins, the next craze in rod building

CatskillKid

Either you're dirty, or you're not.
3M is generally credited to have applied this the use of tiny nano sized silica filler (used in resin, which is a used as a way to bond graphite or "carbon" fibers together. This nono sized filler is so tiny that it is able to literally surround the carbon fiber particles and make them up to 30 percent stronger. This info paraphrased from a recent Fly Fisherman Magazine article by Ross Purnell. We feel this claim is very vague. Does "stronger" indicate tensile breaking strength as being the reason or perhaps impact resistance? What does stronger really mean?

The talk in the shop this morning centered around how this technology is going to affect the future of fly rod design. We noted that the article ended with stating that widespread use of Matrix Resin seems not to be unanimous among rod builders. Orvis and Sage (we guessed on the later), no likey the Silicate Resin and prefer their own resins. We speculate that this is due to large amounts of money spent in advertising present designs for each company. Rosenbauer (the Orvis R&D guy, who is bound by company preference to not alter from the path that 13 key words dictate) feels that thermo plastic particle encapsulation is "stronger."
A while back, Orvis had a certain famous advertising company come up with some key
words to dictate the company's stance on whether to adopt (or not) a new product. The
words were to be true to the company's heritage. So, the executives met in a board room
and chose words/phrases like, Traditional; Performance; Time Tested; Prestigious..etc.
The company literally won't add a new product unless it matches the words they chose
to literally dictate the direction the company goes. I couldn't help but notice, none of the
words/phrases were terms like revolutionary, cutting edge, trend setting..etc.

Anyhow, not a slam at Orvis here because we feel Sage is marching to their own drum as well, as are the various companies who have adopted Nano Silica Fillers, we're wondering who will gain the upper hand in rod design and much more significantly why.

Each company in question (the St. Croix's, Loomis', Orvis', Sages of the world) have large quantities of yet un-sold rods and production facilities designed to continue to produce based on present standards and procedures. The each stand to lose if they admit that one certain way of doing something (other than the way THEY use) is clearly the best.

We're too sophisticated to believe advertisements, so we are beginning to guess (because we don't obviously know until we get a particular rod in our filthy mitts) which will be right and which will be wrong.

At the core of our debate is this: Will Nano Silicate Resins be THE wave of the future or not. Assuming for a moment that it is, once the few companies sell out of existing stock piles of rods, will they then and only then announce that they have a Nano Silica Resin constructed rod in production plans. Many already do, the TFO's and Hardy's and Loomis' ...etc.

Our guess is yes, they will. We are working off the premise that all things being equal, lighter is actually better. We feel the real question will be, can any of them actually achive a medium to slower action with this much stronger and lighter resin system. The ones that can might actually produce some rods that fit various applications. Super fast, super strong rods just aren't really what the world necessarily needs. The companies with the best engineers, will take the cake, while other companies may not participate in this fad at all.

One advantage of much lighter and much stronger rods will be that much longer rods will become possible in single handed versions. 11', 12' and maybe 13' foot single handed rods are so close to hitting the market that we feel it's potentially a matter of months.

Interesting stuff. To all I would ask your thoughts...
 
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Will it ever stop? I really wonder if all these new advances will really improve the performance of fly rods or just take money ouy of our pockets. I suspect that all the new fly rod technology has surpassed any usable function.
Randy
 
these were originated by Mork in the early 80's, they were called "nano - nano" resins......
 
Interesting topic...as I would love a feasible 12 t single handed rod to hit the market. From an engineering standpoint, the companies may be marketing these new resins as "stronger" but the strength has nothing to do with the action of the rod. Unless you are concerned with actually breaking the rod, the "flexibility" or Modulus of Elasticity, E, for you fellow engineer's out there, of the material is what actually dictates how a rod reacts to a particular loading i.e. the rod's action. That being said, when the big companies say "stronger" they may be trying to get across the idea of "stiffer" with all things being equal...which actually translates to same stiffness just a lighter rod.

CatskillKid what company is it that's coming out with these long single handed rods? I'd be interested to look into them.
 
It's not hard to figure out this guy is a fraud.

http://fish-pennsylvania.com/nano-resins-the-next-craze-in-rod-building/


Interesting topic...as I would love a feasible 12 t single handed rod to hit the market. From an engineering standpoint, the companies may be marketing these new resins as "stronger" but the strength has nothing to do with the action of the rod. Unless you are concerned with actually breaking the rod, the "flexibility" or Modulus of Elasticity, E, for you fellow engineer's out there, of the material is what actually dictates how a rod reacts to a particular loading i.e. the rod's action. That being said, when the big companies say "stronger" they may be trying to get across the idea of "stiffer" with all things being equal...which actually translates to same stiffness just a lighter rod.

CatskillKid what company is it that's coming out with these long single handed rods? I'd be interested to look into them.
 
This technology is just an evolution, not a revolution. Don't believe all the hype, rods are still made the same way, the "glue" is just different now. The "glue" contributes, but How carbon fiber flexes is more a matter of how its laid-up. The real big thing will be the person who figures out a fundamentally new way of making rods. I read something a while back about someone experimenting with triangular graphite rods, or something like that.

If you want to see where the real revolution could come from, look at aerospace and Formula 1, that's where all the cutting-edge carbon shit is happening.
 
Not made quite the same way, at least some of them no longer use a fiberglass scrim. and one does use a propitiatory aerospace technology. True, they still get rolled on a mandrel...

Check out this interview with Steve Hemkins, the developer of the Helios on the Bone Fish on the Brain Blog
 
If you want to see where the real revolution could come from, look at aerospace and Formula 1, that's where all the cutting-edge carbon shit is happening.

I always knew there was some connection between my two hobbies - fishing and formula 1. There is even a chance my new rod will have Ferrari logo on it.
 
its a great sub for carbon ceramic resin. And stronger. we use carbon ceramic in most simms boots. it keeps warmth in and such, but nano will be used for some flats sneakers in the future I believe, and maybe boot
 
If you look at the history of synthetic rods there has always been a progression as better resins become available from phenolics, to polyesters, to all sorts of epoxies. Why would anyone expect progress in resin technologies to stop? In addition, as the technologies advance I would expect more viable options leaving individual designers a choice, rather than the simplistic what is the "best" one resin.

Of course there is another component to new materials - hype. Just as sure as new materials will emerge, the advantage of the new materials will be oversold and a little time will be needed to see how the winners and losers settle out.
 
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