Inexpensive Reels

[Pete]

Since it doesn't look like, I'm going to find parts for my old ABU Ambassadeur 156 reel, I needed to replace my everyday "banging around the Ramapo" reel without breaking the budget.

Bracing myself for "buying Asian"...I looked at:

• Ross Flywater 2 - $99
  Lamson Konic 2 - $129
  Battenkill Barstock III - $119
  Original Battenkill 5/6 - $85

Much to my surprise, the Ross appeared to have been made to very sloppy tolerances. There was obvious side play on the spool, things just seemed too "loose". I'd compare this one with the "under $10" Hardy knock-offs sold by Diawa and Berkley in the 70s...

The Lamson, was built much better, but it seemed unnecessarily bulky. I really can't say anything bad about it, but it's just not to my taste....IMHO, it "looked funny".

Both Orvis reels were made to very close tolerances. There might be some spool side play, but it was not detectable without better instrumentation than my sense of touch. Aside from cosmetics, there were some minor differences in the construction of the drag, clicker, and line guide.

To begin with the "Original Battenkill" is not the original. I have an original from the old days. The disk drag and palming rim might be considered improvements, but the line guide seems to have way too many parts.

I chose the Battenkill Bar Stock. It didn't have any line guide parts for me to lose (like I did on my ABU). The "clicker" wasn't as noisy (seemed "smoother"), and the drag seemed to be better designed.

After deducting the Ramsey Outdoor TU member discount and adding the tax, the bottom line was $114.60

IRONY:
I was temporarily using my old Orvis Battenkill "made in England" (by Hardy?), but I considered it "too good" for everyday banging around. I normally reserved it for one of the cane rods I used to take to the Battenkill River.

While I was switching the lines back, I noticed that the "cheap" Asian version has tighter tolerances, than the "good" English version (some of that may be fair wear and tear, but there was a noticeable difference).
RE: semi-related topic where we were bemoaning Hardy's outsourcing... http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulletin/f18-rods-reels-lines-leaders-tippets/t14236-hardy-reels.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EDIT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Follow-up 06/22/08

I finally had an opportunity to fish the new reel yesterday.
Ramapo River 06/21/08

While I didn't have an opportunity to "test" the limits of the drag & etc, fishing with it was a pleasant experience (more so than with the Swedish reel it replaced).

 

[Harry]

Pete:
I have never seen a Ross that wasn't. You might want to take a look at a Tioga #4 @ 120.00, USA made, I have four of them and would rate them right up there.

 

[Randyflycaster]

Don't know what weight you're after, but if you want a cheap, large arbor take a look at the Echo. I think it's okay for freshwater.

Randy

 

[Pete]

Harry, Randy:

I wasn't going to make the rounds of all the local fly shops. I limited my choices to what was available at the Ramsey Outdoor store in Ramsey. To be fair, I probably should have looked at the CD Series by Redington®, but I didn't.

If Ramsey had a broader selection, "Made in USA" would have been a factor.

Large Arbor/ Small Arbor, wasn't a factor, (backing is cheap). I was looking for something in the range of 3" - 3.5" outside diameter, with capacity for a 5 or 6 weight line and a reasonable amount of backing..... At my age, I have trouble taking up slack quickly with the 2.5" diameter reels that served me well in my youth.

But go ahead and share your recommendations for reasonably priced reels. The cost of fly fishing gear can be an intimidating factor, when a spin guy is contemplating joining our ranks.

 

[babyblue]

Harry,
Do you really feel that Ross has bad machining? I have 6 Ross reels and have not had a problem. I use them for trout and salt. They are mostly 6 or more yrs old. The salt versions have many stripers, blue fish, albies and some big mahi to their credit.

 

[Pete]

babyblue:
The Ross Flywater, is not part of the main Ross line. It's part of their inexpensive "Worldwide" line, manufactured offshore. I had no intention of disparaging their more expensive products.

My surprise, was that Ross was willing to be associated with a reel that compared so unfavorably to outsourced, similarly priced reels, by other manufacturers.

BTW: Loose tolerances, aren't necessarily due to poor machining. They could be a deliberate part of a design. If a mechanism is expected to operate when dirty or slightly damaged, the engineers may allow larger clearances (eg. the AK-47 rifle).....and/or..... Mass production is less costly if parts don't have to be "fitted".

I can't speak to Harry's comment, I didn't examine any other Ross models.

 

[babyblue]

Pete,
It was not directed at you, Harry seemed to lump all Ross reels in that category. I'm curious to see what he meant. I love my Ross reels.

Rich

 

[onemorecast]

Pete,
It was not directed at you, Harry seemed to lump all Ross reels in that category. I'm curious to see what he meant. I love my Ross reels.

Rich

Me too. You would have to pry my Ross Evolutions out of my cold, dead fingers.

I think they are excellent reels for their price point.

 

[Harry]

Babyblue:
When I was looking for some newer reels I looked at Ross but found some play in them, I don't know if this is by design or not. I looked at 3 or 4 of their models and it was present in all. This is going back about eight years ago, they may have changed since then. None were large arbor at all. Another reason I shyed away from them is that I prefer to have the spool caged in(prone to falls) and that protects the spool.

 

[BIGBOW]

I have the Battenkill bar stock and Battenkill original. I love both of them and highly recommend them.

 

[Corndog]

I have the Battenkill bar stock and Battenkill original. I love both of them and highly recommend them.

DITTO!!!

Cdog

 

[Joe D]

Pete,

Good choice. The English made Battenkills were made by Orvis in England by a company they owned, I think called British Reel Works. Same for the CFO's. They also made the System reels for Sci. Angler.

 

[DoubleHaul]

fifty bucks!

 

[Pete]

...... To be fair, I probably should have looked at the CD Series by Redington®, but I didn't.....

After the sales guy at Ramsey Outdoor, told that the Redington was being manufactured in the same factory as Orvis, I took a look.

I quality was good, but I still think I made the right decision. There was some barely detectable side play in the spool. Since I couldn't detect any slop in the Orvis models, I still give the Orvis BBS a slight edge.

If a "larger arbor" reel is important to you, the Redington CD or the Lamson Konic would be good choices in this price range.

 

[flyfishing007]

Fly fishing can certainly get expensive. You should try and find a balance in your budget and quality of equipment. There are some fly fishing guides that list the leading reels, but this discussion is very useful for the price weary anglers.

Thanks again and keep up the good work.

 

[CatskillKid]

Best Inexpensive Reels:
Pflueger Medalist (uner $30)
Cabela's Prestige 3 (Under $50)
Lamson Konic (Under $120)
Teton Large Arbor (Under $150)
G.Loomis East Fork (Under $170)
Ross CLA (Best Selling Trout Reel for a reason, Under $185)

Next Echelon
Lamson Velocity (Under $240)
Lamson LiteSpeed (Under $285)
Ross Evolution
Ross Vexis (sick reel)

Clearly Best Trout Reel Out There
Galvan Torque

 

[skipper3245]

Lamson Konic is the best reel for fishing trout in my opinion. I am not saying it is the highest quality reel out there by any means. The drag is smooth, and it is very light in weight. Also, its not much over $100 . I have this thing with trout reels. When are you going to need a high tech drag when fishing for trout? It just needs to be a spool that does not break easily. Also, with the konic. It only has something like 25 moving parts, while abel has something like 80. Less things to break.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I have to say that I am amazed at the performance I've gotten out of my Cabela's Prestige. I have a few "better" reels but it has kind of devolved into my beater reel for situations where I don't want to break something that was more expensive. This spring/summer I used it as a saltwater reel when my goal was to land a keeper Striped Bass on my 5wt (or break the rod trying). I never got a keeper but I landed a bunch of schoolies in the 20" range. The reel handled the fish no problem and I never had any problems with salt messing up the drag. It's probably one of the heavier 5wt reels you'll encounter but it has performed well beyond my expectations.

 

[skipper3245]

I have that reel. It lasted me a few years before i dropped it on a rock and it busted. But it was a great reel. I used it in the same way pretty much. It was a backup reel that I got a bunch of use out of since my abel cant stay out of the repair shop. (abel sucks). I think it may have been about 35 bucks and it treated me well.

 

[Trouser Trout]

Best Inexpensive Reels:
Pflueger Medalist (uner $30)
Cabela's Prestige 3 (Under $50)
Lamson Konic (Under $120)
Teton Large Arbor (Under $150)
G.Loomis East Fork (Under $170)
Ross CLA (Best Selling Trout Reel for a reason, Under $185)

Next Echelon
Lamson Velocity (Under $240)
Lamson LiteSpeed (Under $285)
Ross Evolution
Ross Vexis (sick reel)

Clearly Best Trout Reel Out There
Galvan Torque

I noticed that you didn't include any Orvis reels? Any reason for this?

 

[CatskillKid]

Yes actually, as a former Fishing Manager for the Orvis Company I can tell you that I know all of their reels intimately. I have been in the reel repair room, I am familiar with British Reel and I have attended numerous strategic Orvis meetings. Orvis can't match Ross, they never could. At every price point Orvis has, I could give you other options that are superior. It may sound like I have an axe to grind on Orvis, but I really don't. The folks who run the company are good people and they suffer from the terrible advice of a guy named Paul Pherson (ex Saint's Linebacker, forceful, opinionated wanker who has too much power in the clicky heiarchy of the company). Also, they just don't have an eye on real innovation. From Jim Rowinski to LePage, they are doomed to react because they don't have the capacity or the go ahead to really innovate. They don't do anything really well. From rods, to waders, to reels..etc. I could name a competitor or two who does it better. Orvis is an overpriced, unreliable, overmarketed, overrated company these days.

I always root for Orvis to do something unique but all they ever do is produce a knock off or react to industry leaders most recent inovations. In the old days, their CFO's were made by Hardy and those babies were good reels. The Die Cast Battenkills were pretty solid during the early 80's but when Ross Came along and Lamson started getting serious and then all the other options that began popping up, I don't see Orvis as an option at any price point. Give me a model, a price and why you like it and I'll ask you to compare it to at least one far superior option.

 

[Joe D]

You just blew any credibility you may have thought you had...

 

[skipper3245]

Not sure how you can say orvis is a crap company. The Helios is one of the best rods ever made, and for a loooonngggg time the company has been always near the top. Reel wise, yeah they are not known for them as much as rods, but they still make a good product. And what blows me is that you worked for them and bash them. I work for Simms fishing products and have enough respect for the company to never publicly say anything negative about them.

 

[Broadheadscreek]

I'm with Joe here Orvis has produced many fine reels. Battenkill Large Arbor which has taken a beating in the salt on linesiders as well as putting many giant king salmon and steelhead on the bank year after year for me with out fail . I also like there British made disk drag Battenkill 3/4 & 5/6 they are stylish and functional reels in any arena. They balance well and have good tolerances and both have great drags.

 

[golden beetle]

Yes actually, as a former Fishing Manager for the Orvis Company I can tell you that I know all of their reels intimately. I have been in the reel repair room, I am familiar with British Reel and I have attended numerous strategic Orvis meetings. Orvis can't match Ross, they never could. At every price point Orvis has, I could give you other options that are superior. It may sound like I have an axe to grind on Orvis, but I really don't. The folks who run the company are good people and they suffer from the terrible advice of a guy named Paul Pherson (ex Saint's Linebacker, forceful, opinionated wanker who has too much power in the clicky heiarchy of the company). Also, they just don't have an eye on real innovation. From Jim Rowinski to LePage, they are doomed to react because they don't have the capacity or the go ahead to really innovate. They don't do anything really well. From rods, to waders, to reels..etc. I could name a competitor or two who does it better. Orvis is an overpriced, unreliable, overmarketed, overrated company these days.

I always root for Orvis to do something unique but all they ever do is produce a knock off or react to industry leaders most recent inovations. In the old days, their CFO's were made by Hardy and those babies were good reels. The Die Cast Battenkills were pretty solid during the early 80's but when Ross Came along and Lamson started getting serious and then all the other options that began popping up, I don't see Orvis as an option at any price point. Give me a model, a price and why you like it and I'll ask you to compare it to at least one far superior option.

Catskillkid, let me be the first to welcome you to NEFF.

Have you seen my flies?

 

[Trouser Trout]

Yes actually, as a former Fishing Manager for the Orvis Company I can tell you that I know all of their reels intimately. I have been in the reel repair room, I am familiar with British Reel and I have attended numerous strategic Orvis meetings. Orvis can't match Ross, they never could. At every price point Orvis has, I could give you other options that are superior. It may sound like I have an axe to grind on Orvis, but I really don't. The folks who run the company are good people and they suffer from the terrible advice of a guy named Paul Pherson (ex Saint's Linebacker, forceful, opinionated wanker who has too much power in the clicky heiarchy of the company). Also, they just don't have an eye on real innovation. From Jim Rowinski to LePage, they are doomed to react because they don't have the capacity or the go ahead to really innovate. They don't do anything really well. From rods, to waders, to reels..etc. I could name a competitor or two who does it better. Orvis is an overpriced, unreliable, overmarketed, overrated company these days.

I always root for Orvis to do something unique but all they ever do is produce a knock off or react to industry leaders most recent inovations. In the old days, their CFO's were made by Hardy and those babies were good reels. The Die Cast Battenkills were pretty solid during the early 80's but when Ross Came along and Lamson started getting serious and then all the other options that began popping up, I don't see Orvis as an option at any price point. Give me a model, a price and why you like it and I'll ask you to compare it to at least one far superior option.

Must be a lot more to the story.... Orvis reels are an outstanding value...... I have noticed that many fisherman either love or hate Orvis, don't know why this is..... Sort of reminds me of American cars VS foreign jobs...... 90% or more of my fly fishing stuff is Orvis....maybe thats why i suck LOL

 

[golden beetle]

Must be a lot more to the story.... Orvis reels are an outstanding value...... I have noticed that many fisherman either love or hate Orvis, don't know why this is..... Sort of reminds me of American cars VS foreign jobs...... 90% or more of my fly fishing stuff is Orvis....maybe thats why i suck LOL

TT, the Orvis Clearwater 2 is a great fly rod for 198 dollars, imo.

The bar stock is a great reel, imo.

I own an Orvis fishing vest.

 

[CatskillKid]

...... I have noticed that many fisherman either love or hate Orvis, don't know why this is...
I guess you are quite correct in saying this. From my point of view, as I've stated in man posts already, I root for Orvis. I wish they'd do a better job of things. But they don't. They've run many dealers out of business by giving poor margins and little wiggle room on terms (merch that once purchased and doesn't sell is on the little guy entirely to liquidate minus profit). They dictate their way, their opinions, their product and to a degree their culture. I refrain from being judgemental about them because I have worked for the company in a previous life and I do have a genuine like of the history, the Owners of the company and many who still work for them.
HOWEVER...Let me say this for the record: I am unbiased. If I call a spade a spade in my posts you'll have to consider that I don't sell their product for a living any more. I have no angle. I have no reason to respect them or not respect them. I base my observation, opinion and commentary on the way their gear performs. I am only loyal to being honest and having integrity. THAT, my friends...IS CREDIBIGGITY-BAM.
NO-ONE on this site sucks for liking Orvis. We can all like whomever we like. In fact, if you like Orvis I have a whole bunch of fly rods you might be interested in purchasing from me. I will start with a T-3 909-2 Tip Flex, a T-3 106-2 Tip Flex, a TLS 904-4 Tip Flex, a Trident 863-2 Full Flex, a TLS 906-2 Mid Flex and a Silver Label 705-4 Mid Flex. By all means hit me up on these.
As far as not being sure how I could possibly have worked for a company and now come to "bash" them, I would say this: I have high expectations for value and the dollars I spend in the industry need to be spent to the best of my ability to obtain performance, reliability, a pleasurable fishing experience and did I mention performance and performance? If I feel another company makes a better option, I will state my opinion freely. I am not afraid to give an unbiased review. If Orvis makes a product that I feel is noteworthy, I will be the first to say: Go Orvis, gooo Orvis, go Orvis, YAAAAYYYYYY!!! Trust me on that one.
Does this mean I lack respect? Not at all. Saying something negative about a company in a public forum is neither indicative of a lack of respect or a sign of ill will or personal bias. It is rather a sign of integrity and honesty. Magazines today can't say a negative word in a review for fear of endorsements being pulled. This forum is the prescise place for true, real commentary that isn't watered down for fear of rocking the boat. We deserve it to ourselves as an on line group to free from pre-conceived notions of brand loyalty born from fear to utter negative feedback out of a false sense of doing the fishing community a favor. This type of attitude is a dis-service to us all.
If I worked for Simms (an absolutely awesome company by the way, who does what they do extremely well and is truly THE INDUSTRY LEADER) I would NEVER tell anyone on this site or any other site. Your only choice is to tow the company line and the company line is to say nothing negative ever, nor ever endorse any other product but your own. You could actually be subject to termination internally if your activities while representing the company in a public format were not sanctioned. See: Public Relations Behavior 101 for a primer on this.
This is called professional conduct. ie: (a parallell here) If you work in a fly shop you're a moe for bashing a competitor, it will come back as bad mojo a thousand times over. HOWEVER, this is not a professional environment. It is a group of fishermen in the fishing community. We actually WANT some folks to stand up and just tell the truth as they see it.
You will never find me unreceptive to someone's honest assessment or evaluation of a product. If I dissagree, I will give things called REASONS as to why. These REASONS will be based on my personal use, on FACTORS like cost and they will actually take into accout what is commercially available, regardless of who makes the item in quesiton.
I have to laugh good naturedly at the notion that no one should be allowed to bad mouth Orvis or bash them because that's not really what I've done. Certainly I'm not afraid to speak my opinion and if this be error and upon me prov'd, no man ever writ, nor no man ever lov'd. (a little Shakespeare for 'ya)

 

[Trouser Trout]

Catskillkid, nobody here is arguing whether you should or shouldn't critique Orvis. Well placed and constructive citicisms are tools that we should all employ when making a choice or forming a decision. That being acknowledged, I think you are way off base in believing that orvis reels are not a great value, if not the best value on the market, at this very time i can purchase an Orvis BBS 2 3/4" reel for $98 and if i wish to upgrade to a 3" it will cost me $109, an extremely reasonable price and solid value for a reel that should last someone a lifetime if properly maintained. You being a former employee must know this, so it leaves me to question why you excluded Orvis reels from your list? Also PM me with a price list for what you are selling, thanks

 

[golden beetle]

Catskillkid, your post is brilliant.

Notwithstanding, I like Orvis a lot.

I must say, however, that I believe you don't include them in your posts because you are biased against them. Your claim to the contrary isn't credible.

Not sure what else to say, but welcome again to the forum.

To your credit, you leave them out of your product reviews, along with the disclosure of your past association with the company (which explains your bias quite honestly and gives your review, as a whole, some credibility).