CatskillKid
Either you're dirty, or you're not.
Thanks for welcoming me to the forums Golden Beetle and also, I found your response to be pretty incredible. You're obviously honest and straightforward. That makes you genuine in my book and I could give you no higher praise my friend.
If I do have innate bias because of my prior association with Orvis, it isn't for lack of trying not be biased. I think what bothers me the most about the company besides the way they interact in the Fly-Fishing world, er. eeuugh uuu. I did it again didn't I! sorry. Let me give further insight on this and to why, from a technical rod building perspective, Orvis has focused so much on the beginner that they've missed the boat...dare I say....entirely. By this I mean that when considering the four main components that a fly rod must create during a cast (symmetry, arc, smoothness and speed), I find that the Orvis rods don't compare well to other options (Sage Z-Axis, Loomis Stream Dance, Albright, Winston, Scott, Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, Hardy..etc). To fortify this point, here is a quote from a research piece that I promise I was not in any way involved in, the quote is coming from the Owner of an extremely popular, huge volume Montana based fly rod shop that sells all the major brands of rods and is, much like me, as unbiased as possible.
For some unknown reason Orvis has usually designed rods with heavier, less flexible tips and slower, more parabolic actions. I suppose their thinking is that these designs are better for most anglers, especially less experienced anglers. Well, I think they are wrong. Fly casters from beginners to experts will get a lot more out of rods with medium fast action rods with softer tips. Who would have believed that a $225 Albright five-piece rod stomps all over the Zero Gravity in every single performance category there is? Anyone who wants definitive, measureable proof on this can please ask and I'll be so kind as to provide it.
On the plus side, Orvis rods have always had wonderful craftsmanship, finish and lovely reel seats. The reel seat on the Zero Gravity is complex and beautiful, until you twist the Gold anodized cap to lock up the reel. Then the aluminum-to-aluminum contact of the cap with the slotted sliding band creates an excruciating, fingernails on the blackboard, type of squeak.
At one time I had an old Orvis 7 foot 9 inch "Far and Fine" graphite rod that was light as a feather, and had a nice fast (for Orvis) action. Orvis needs to go back and find that Far and Fine rod design and tell the present rod designers to build ‘em just like that.
Oh yes, for those of you that say that the tip-flex Zero Gravity is a way better rod, I owned one but rejected it since the action was slower than the mid-flex making it even more of a dog.
Also, for Trouser Trout: I appreciate your post as well and the reasonable tone in which it was written. To respond to your well thought out points, the Orvis BBS isn't a bad option at that price, neither is an Okuma, a G. Loomis Current, a Lamson Konic or a Ross Cimmeron (the reel Orvis designed to BBS to compete with). ps. the Lamson and the Ross are made in the U.S.A.! A lot of blaces have sales on better reels for $100 but you have to be in the right place at the right time. I got a Ross Evolution for $129 last year when they brought out there new Evo. That's a sweet reel for that price. As far as the BBS though, it is a solid, functional reel at a competitive price. Why did I exclude them from my orinial list on that reel??? Oversight. The reel deserves to be on the list. That being said, I personally wouldn't buy it for more than $75.
On the Orvis rods for sale, I'm asking $150 for the T-3's and $100 for any of the others. I sold the Trident this morning and I have TLS 904-4 Tip on hold for a kid who wants it.
If I do have innate bias because of my prior association with Orvis, it isn't for lack of trying not be biased. I think what bothers me the most about the company besides the way they interact in the Fly-Fishing world, er. eeuugh uuu. I did it again didn't I! sorry. Let me give further insight on this and to why, from a technical rod building perspective, Orvis has focused so much on the beginner that they've missed the boat...dare I say....entirely. By this I mean that when considering the four main components that a fly rod must create during a cast (symmetry, arc, smoothness and speed), I find that the Orvis rods don't compare well to other options (Sage Z-Axis, Loomis Stream Dance, Albright, Winston, Scott, Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, Hardy..etc). To fortify this point, here is a quote from a research piece that I promise I was not in any way involved in, the quote is coming from the Owner of an extremely popular, huge volume Montana based fly rod shop that sells all the major brands of rods and is, much like me, as unbiased as possible.
For some unknown reason Orvis has usually designed rods with heavier, less flexible tips and slower, more parabolic actions. I suppose their thinking is that these designs are better for most anglers, especially less experienced anglers. Well, I think they are wrong. Fly casters from beginners to experts will get a lot more out of rods with medium fast action rods with softer tips. Who would have believed that a $225 Albright five-piece rod stomps all over the Zero Gravity in every single performance category there is? Anyone who wants definitive, measureable proof on this can please ask and I'll be so kind as to provide it.
On the plus side, Orvis rods have always had wonderful craftsmanship, finish and lovely reel seats. The reel seat on the Zero Gravity is complex and beautiful, until you twist the Gold anodized cap to lock up the reel. Then the aluminum-to-aluminum contact of the cap with the slotted sliding band creates an excruciating, fingernails on the blackboard, type of squeak.
At one time I had an old Orvis 7 foot 9 inch "Far and Fine" graphite rod that was light as a feather, and had a nice fast (for Orvis) action. Orvis needs to go back and find that Far and Fine rod design and tell the present rod designers to build ‘em just like that.
Oh yes, for those of you that say that the tip-flex Zero Gravity is a way better rod, I owned one but rejected it since the action was slower than the mid-flex making it even more of a dog.
Also, for Trouser Trout: I appreciate your post as well and the reasonable tone in which it was written. To respond to your well thought out points, the Orvis BBS isn't a bad option at that price, neither is an Okuma, a G. Loomis Current, a Lamson Konic or a Ross Cimmeron (the reel Orvis designed to BBS to compete with). ps. the Lamson and the Ross are made in the U.S.A.! A lot of blaces have sales on better reels for $100 but you have to be in the right place at the right time. I got a Ross Evolution for $129 last year when they brought out there new Evo. That's a sweet reel for that price. As far as the BBS though, it is a solid, functional reel at a competitive price. Why did I exclude them from my orinial list on that reel??? Oversight. The reel deserves to be on the list. That being said, I personally wouldn't buy it for more than $75.
On the Orvis rods for sale, I'm asking $150 for the T-3's and $100 for any of the others. I sold the Trident this morning and I have TLS 904-4 Tip on hold for a kid who wants it.
