Cutthroat trout

[Oliver10]

Is there anywhere on the east coast to fish for these? Why were these not stocked back in the day like rainbows and browns? Just curious.

 

[Petergoodman]

Not being a biologist, might be that cuts survive better in waters they developed in. Also, hatcheries have learned to raise certain species pretty well given the objective they have - adding in another species does what exactly, other than to provide fishermen with another species they say they caught - not sure if this is worth the effort from a cost efficiency perspective of hatchery. But a further, and probably more important reason is that a given piece of water can support only so many pounds of fish. So when browns were introduced, they outcompeted and pushed out brookies, some of which were a hell of a lot bigger than the little jewels we take for granted now - you don't see big brookies in the decent sized rivers because the browns chased them out (or ate them...). So lets assume we add in cuts to the equation - what gets displaced? Brookies already gone in all but smaller streams, so maybe cuts move there and finish the job on them. Or maybe they interbreed with rainbows, which they have a tendency to do - and then all you have is "cutbows", so not sure what you gained. And in our warmer in the summer waters, they are not displacing browns, so maybe all you have is a put and take fishery - which you could do just as well with rainbows and browns now. So point I am making here is that you don't see cuts outside their own native region largely because there is no good reason to plant them elsewhere. Take a trip to Montana - beautiful cuts in Slough Creek, landscapes that from our perspective are new and incredible, and as AK would note, bears tht mean business but also give a touch of wild to your fishing that you maybe miss on the Ramapo. Go to the Main Stem WB for huge wild rainbows. Or the Beaverkill for some very smart browns. A place for each.

 

[Oliver10]

Not being a biologist, might be that cuts survive better in waters they developed in. Also, hatcheries have learned to raise certain species pretty well given the objective they have - adding in another species does what exactly, other than to provide fishermen with another species they say they caught - not sure if this is worth the effort from a cost efficiency perspective of hatchery. But a further, and probably more important reason is that a given piece of water can support only so many pounds of fish. So when browns were introduced, they outcompeted and pushed out brookies, some of which were a hell of a lot bigger than the little jewels we take for granted now - you don't see big brookies in the decent sized rivers because the browns chased them out (or ate them...). So lets assume we add in cuts to the equation - what gets displaced? Brookies already gone in all but smaller streams, so maybe cuts move there and finish the job on them. Or maybe they interbreed with rainbows, which they have a tendency to do - and then all you have is "cutbows", so not sure what you gained. And in our warmer in the summer waters, they are not displacing browns, so maybe all you have is a put and take fishery - which you could do just as well with rainbows and browns now. So point I am making here is that you don't see cuts outside their own native region largely because there is no good reason to plant them elsewhere. Take a trip to Montana - beautiful cuts in Slough Creek, landscapes that from our perspective are new and incredible, and as AK would note, bears tht mean business but also give a touch of wild to your fishing that you maybe miss on the Ramapo. Go to the Main Stem WB for huge wild rainbows. Or the Beaverkill for some very smart browns. A place for each.

I was not suggesting that they be stocked now. I learned my lesson asking about Red Band trout. I was just curious if there were any places. I heard there were some in Maryland West Virgina waters but I think that is BS. I was mostly wondering if there was ever an attempt back in the day when people did not not better about invasive species and were moving things around. I have caught some massive cutthroats in Lake Yellowstone from the shore on wooly buggers. I have also caught them in some stream east of Jackson Hole. Not the Snake but I forget the name. This was more of a history question.

 

[Oliver10]

http://www.dnr.maryland.gov/education/are/TroutintheClassroom/CutthroatTrout.pdf I found this not sure what a "few" means 3? or 300?

"In Maryland, cutthroat trout were introduced in the North Branch of the Potomac River where they are found today."

"In Maryland, there are probably no naturally reproducing populations. For several years, cutthroat trout were not being stocked by DNR because of their susceptibility to whirling disease. However, a few cutthroat trout are now being stocked in the North Branch of the Potomac River each year. "

 

[Petergoodman]

No problem - with respect to Maryland, and at this point we are talking almost a maybe, a few years ago in Mid Atlantic FF magazine there was a story about Golden's having been stocked in I think the Gunpowder, but don't hold me to it. As memory serves, they were breeding. If you wanted to check this, might want to check Maryland (and/or WV) Fish and Wildlife website and see what it says re stocking practice. Who knows - maybe they have some water with no outlet to other streams that they stock with something unique. Might be interesting.

 

[Oliver10]

http://www.dnr.maryland.gov/education/are/TroutintheClassroom/CutthroatTrout.pdf I found this not sure what a "few" means 3? or 300?

"In Maryland, cutthroat trout were introduced in the North Branch of the Potomac River where they are found today."

"In Maryland, there are probably no naturally reproducing populations. For several years, cutthroat trout were not being stocked by DNR because of their susceptibility to whirling disease. However, a few cutthroat trout are now being stocked in the North Branch of the Potomac River each year. "

I fished the gunpowder in a few locations. I was not very good back then. Not saying I am now, but I only caught a few tiny browns for many hours of fishing. I have always wanted to fish the Castleman in Western Maryland. I have driven by a few times years ago and it always looked amazing.

 

[Everybody's Friend]

Let me try to explain this...

Rainbows came from California, since the 1870s or so.

California entered the Union in 1850.

Efforts to stock California waters and to stock eastern US waters with Pacific salmon and rainbows started not long after that.

So the first hatcheries in America were established in New York and California in the 1860s or 1870s.

Montana, home of the cutthroat, didn't even enter the Union until 1889.

The hatcheries that developed in California, New York, and Europe (brown trout, of course), were established for decades before Montana entered the Union.

Like any commodity that is traded, their are big and small economies.

California and Europe are big economies.

We get lots of products from there. They are our trading partners for technology, goods and services...

And fish, too, for the same reason.

 

[JeffK]

The goldens stocked in the Gunpowder may have been albino rainbows also know as palaminos. They were developed in West Virginia.

The New Jersey strain of rainbows developed by Charles Hayford in 1914 maintain a cut mark on their jaw. They may have a little cutthroat or redband in them. Hayford bred the strain for a strong red stripe.

 

[Oliver10]

The goldens stocked in the Gunpowder may have been albino rainbows also know as palaminos. They were developed in West Virginia. The New Jersey strain of rainbows developed by Charles Hayford in 1914 maintain a cut mark on their jaw. They may have a little cutthroat or redband in them. Hayford bred the strain for a strong red stripe.

Jeff thanks for the insight. I looked at the Maryland Dnr site. They stock Palaminos. I don't think true Golden trout are outside of the home range.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Maryland does or did stock cutthroats and fairly recently. The idea being they are easy to catch like brookies and provide variety (an age old problem for fisheries management where non-natives are concerned).

 

[JeffK]

It definately does suck having to pick between limestone stream brownies, mountain creek brookies, shad, rainbows, walleye, smallmouth bass, early stripers, or panfish. NJ better start stocking cutts because I'm frickin bored. Maybe they will make good bait for the flatheads.

BTW, I pick Catskill browns - I think where JC was - for tomorrow. Let's go Hendricksons. I'm beginning to believe there are only 126 Hendricksons in the whole North East. 3or 4 appear every day just to make us optimistic. I'm hoping I will be proven way wrong tomorrow.

 

[thrashers.wheat]

Fishing for cutts is one of my favorite pursuit. The variable environments these fish inhabit throughout MT/ID/WY are so damn special. I think that's what makes fishing for these fish so darn cool. I think a great deal of why I love these fish would be absent if targeted in MD waters.

If interested in MD, I'd suggest taking a look at the Savage River. Downstream of the reservoir is a nice tailwater section. Flows through a State Forest with free, first come basis campsites in a sweet gorge right near the stream. The Savage dumps in to a nice section of the NB Potomac less than 15 miles from the campsite. Casselman & the Youk are around the corner from there, too.

 

[Oliver10]

Flows through a State Forest with free, first come basis campsites in a sweet gorge right near the stream.

This sounds amazing. I would be nervous though to drive the 6 hours hoping to find an availible campsite. Are there motels near by just in case camping is full or is westen maryland so different than NJ that it would never be an issue.

 

[Oliver10]

It definately does suck having to pick between limestone stream brownies, mountain creek brookies, shad, rainbows, walleye, smallmouth bass, early stripers, or panfish. NJ better start stocking cutts because I'm frickin bored.

Nobody laugh but I spend many hours a year trying to catch a lake trout in Round Valley with my fly rod. I know I know never gonna happen but it is a goal. Lets not forget NJ stock landlocked Salmon too. Still have not caught one of them yet.

 

[thrashers.wheat]

N 39.50200 W 79.12045 are the coordinates of the location I'm speaking about, simply entering those coordinates in to a google search will be helpful. I have taken two trips there and have always parked my car at the downstream most part of the campground lot. Nobody was even near me. Some folks were more towards the 'top' of the CG but it has all worked out well for me. The area was not at all crowded by PA State Parks standards. I believe they still do whitewater olympic trials on this stream so make sure you're not going that weekend.

usgs gauge for the section below the reservoir: USGS Current Conditions for USGS 01597500 SAVAGE RIV BL SAVAGE RIV DAM NEAR BLOOMINGTON, MD

Let me know if you ever get serious about planning a trip there

This sounds amazing. I would be nervous though to drive the 6 hours hoping to find an availible campsite. Are there motels near by just in case camping is full or is westen maryland so different than NJ that it would never be an issue.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

N 39.50200 W 79.12045 are the coordinates of the location I'm speaking about, simply entering those coordinates in to a google search will be helpful. I have taken two trips there and have always parked my car at the downstream most part of the campground lot. Nobody was even near me. Some folks were more towards the 'top' of the CG but it has all worked out well for me. The area was not at all crowded by PA State Parks standards. I believe they still do whitewater olympic trials on this stream so make sure you're not going that weekend.

usgs gauge for the section below the reservoir: USGS Current Conditions for USGS 01597500 SAVAGE RIV BL SAVAGE RIV DAM NEAR BLOOMINGTON, MD

Let me know if you ever get serious about planning a trip there

What? You couldn't put up pictures too??