Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Would you rather he shot it in the ass, where you like it?
Give us a try!
Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!
Coyote Hunting
- Thread starter Trout Fever
- Start date
Would you rather he shot it in the ass, where you like it?
CTobias
Professional BS'r
Beetle, if you only knew (that I wasn't "white") what it is really like to be in another country, away from your family, bored as shit, with 210x5.56mm rounds, 20x40mm HEDP (that stands for high explosive deep penetrating (we know you like deep penetration in your arse)) 5x40mm smoke grenades and a pack of wild dogs running around. Tell me oh wise one, what would you do to keep the morale up on an 8 hour checkpoint in the middle of some god for saken town with nothing but mud huts?
You guessed it. Play pin the smoke grenade on the wild dog. I laughed so hard I almost pissed my pants. It improved the morale of my men and that is all that matters.
You guessed it. Play pin the smoke grenade on the wild dog. I laughed so hard I almost pissed my pants. It improved the morale of my men and that is all that matters.
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
Tobias, you seem to be asking Beetle for forgiveness...
Perhaps you confession is better heard by a pastor, rabbi or priest?
I won't suggest you seek an Islamic cleric over there... Probably not wise...
So I guess if you can't talk to anyone there, you got me here.
And I forgive you.
In the grand scheme of things, your wrongful acts described in your post are insignificant.
My problem is with people doing that crap over here, in the civilized U S of A.
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
I bird hunt all and of you know, I am no liberal weenie. I would never kill a big cat or a wolf for sport. I think they are beautiful animals and at some level are able resolve problems related to new tactics related to survival. I probably would not indulge in a bear hunt either. I have been reading this post shaking my head. I have read not one valid reason to exterminate Coyotes. I am trying to look at this, with a perspective of indifference. If any thing is all you did is give the anti hunters more wood to throw on the fire.
“Never hunted them myself, but we strongly encourage others to do so on our PA and NJ properties. The do a job on deer fawns in spring and one ground nesting birds like grouse, woodcock and turkeys. Shoot 'em all! My medicine for them would be my Winchester model 70 in 7mm Rem. mag. I have some reloads in 120 grain that move out at close to 4,000 fps”
Rusty Spinner
The same was said about The American Bison during the great slaughter. Holding the position you do with TU, don’t you find this to be a bit hypocritical.
“It will increase your small game, deer and turkey populations. And when the fur is prime, you can sell the pelt. Not sure if I've ever heard of anyone eating them. Our culture frowns on eating canines.”
Rusty Spinner
I don t believe this to be a true statement. This would be the anti hunting argument. In NJ turkeys and deer are thriving also Geese. If you need to sell pelts to make a buck, you are in trouble already.
The greatest threat to wildlife populations is loss of habitat. It is an illogical conclusion that Coyotes would diminish wildlife populations. If the small game population is sufficient to support a population of Coyotes they will survive, if it is not they will starve.
long time buddy the reason people want to get rid of coyotes is they are smart and adapt to anything the wipe out all small game rabbits and such and deer to live stock they have litters that could be upward of 12 or so a year so by killing mama right now insures there wont be a new batch... coyote pelts are going for I believe last time i look for 30 bucks or so but its not about the money its something to do when there is nothing else to do.”
Trout Fever
Another illogical statement; Anti gun lobbyists would love to publish this. It kind of gives the argument on the unpredictability of gun owners. That statement is dumb on a stupid level
Maybe I was raised different; my father taught me at a very young age, Do not shoot anything you would not eat. This philosophy gave me a deep respect for nature. There is a difference between hunting and senseless brutality.
I wrote a research paper in College on; conditions that can result from removing Predators from of ecosystem. My entire hypothesis was based on Humans intentions may be good for Humans, but bad for the Ecosystem. I came up with 20 different articles and research that supported my argument. The one I found to be the most compelling. During the extensive Shark killing that transpired after Jaws was released. In the Caribbean there was a move to thin out the shark populations to decrease tourist’s un-easiness about swimming at the beach. They were quite efficient, killing 10s of thousands. What transpired after that? The Octopus population exploded. With no Sharks to keep them in check subsequently the lobster fishery crashed. It took years to recover.
I am not trying to make an argument not have Coyote hunts; there should be quotas and management of the resource. Changing the fine balance of an Ecosystem can result in unpredictable consequences. Don’t give the tree huggers any more fuel for there fire.
“Never hunted them myself, but we strongly encourage others to do so on our PA and NJ properties. The do a job on deer fawns in spring and one ground nesting birds like grouse, woodcock and turkeys. Shoot 'em all! My medicine for them would be my Winchester model 70 in 7mm Rem. mag. I have some reloads in 120 grain that move out at close to 4,000 fps”
Rusty Spinner
The same was said about The American Bison during the great slaughter. Holding the position you do with TU, don’t you find this to be a bit hypocritical.
“It will increase your small game, deer and turkey populations. And when the fur is prime, you can sell the pelt. Not sure if I've ever heard of anyone eating them. Our culture frowns on eating canines.”
Rusty Spinner
I don t believe this to be a true statement. This would be the anti hunting argument. In NJ turkeys and deer are thriving also Geese. If you need to sell pelts to make a buck, you are in trouble already.
The greatest threat to wildlife populations is loss of habitat. It is an illogical conclusion that Coyotes would diminish wildlife populations. If the small game population is sufficient to support a population of Coyotes they will survive, if it is not they will starve.
long time buddy the reason people want to get rid of coyotes is they are smart and adapt to anything the wipe out all small game rabbits and such and deer to live stock they have litters that could be upward of 12 or so a year so by killing mama right now insures there wont be a new batch... coyote pelts are going for I believe last time i look for 30 bucks or so but its not about the money its something to do when there is nothing else to do.”
Trout Fever
Another illogical statement; Anti gun lobbyists would love to publish this. It kind of gives the argument on the unpredictability of gun owners. That statement is dumb on a stupid level
Maybe I was raised different; my father taught me at a very young age, Do not shoot anything you would not eat. This philosophy gave me a deep respect for nature. There is a difference between hunting and senseless brutality.
I wrote a research paper in College on; conditions that can result from removing Predators from of ecosystem. My entire hypothesis was based on Humans intentions may be good for Humans, but bad for the Ecosystem. I came up with 20 different articles and research that supported my argument. The one I found to be the most compelling. During the extensive Shark killing that transpired after Jaws was released. In the Caribbean there was a move to thin out the shark populations to decrease tourist’s un-easiness about swimming at the beach. They were quite efficient, killing 10s of thousands. What transpired after that? The Octopus population exploded. With no Sharks to keep them in check subsequently the lobster fishery crashed. It took years to recover.
I am not trying to make an argument not have Coyote hunts; there should be quotas and management of the resource. Changing the fine balance of an Ecosystem can result in unpredictable consequences. Don’t give the tree huggers any more fuel for there fire.
Last edited:
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
I apologize for any offense I may cause, particularly toward Rusty.
But it seems that folks here want to conserve trout streams because they like to fish.
Which is a good enough reason to do so.
But not enough for me.
But it seems that folks here want to conserve trout streams because they like to fish.
Which is a good enough reason to do so.
But not enough for me.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Wow, tomfly, did you misinterpret my statements!!!!!!!! First of all, I have never hunted coyotes or other predators as I clearly stated. By "shoot them all" I was in no way saying that coyotes or any other predators should be exterminated. But I do firmly believe that there should be an open season for predators as there is currently and I support those that trap or shoot predators under the legal game laws we have in place. I have watched as predator numbers have increased while prey numbers have decreased. There are several factors that are in play, including lack of early successional forest habitat, falling fur prices, reintroduction of species like bobcats, the fact that Eastern coyotes have been proven through DNA analysis to have interbred with wolves, we have fewer hunters and trappers today, and other factors. If I believed we should exterminate coyotes, I would spend the time it took to hunt them. Again, I have never done so. Our Eastern ecosystems no longer have the predator/prey relationship they did before man's arrival in North America. We have killed off certain animals of both predators and prey and we have greatly manipulated the various habitats that these animals survived in. But man is not outside of the predator/prey environment, we are a part of it.
Modern wildlife management carefully balances the ability of man to hunt game species without wiping them out as did market hunting (not to be confused with sustainability hunting) of bison more than a century ago; a practice that coincided with farmers tilling the tall grass prairies in favor of crops over native grasses that the bison needed to survive on. We can hunt wolves, bobcats, mountain lions, fox and other predators where their numbers justify it and we do. I do not, but I support those that do legally. Lastly, you mention that if you:
Says who? If someone wishes to predator hunt and/or to trap to either make his or her living or to augment it, who are you to tell them that it is not a legitimate way of earning a living? I'm not sure what you do to earn a living, but perhaps it is not what others would consider as "legitimate". Who says that a legal means of selling fur means that someone is "in trouble"? I think you jumped off the deep end by falsely assuming that I and others are calling for the extermination of certain predators because we have some fun on this site and say things like "shoot them all". Again, if you assumed that I meant I wanted them exterminated, you would be wrong and I will apologize if it came across that way. In the meantime, there is no reason that hunters and trappers can't take some predators out of the equation any more than we can take other big game such as deer or small game via hunting or trapping or any legal means including falconry.
Everything in life is a balancing act. Hunting predators is included in that balance.
Modern wildlife management carefully balances the ability of man to hunt game species without wiping them out as did market hunting (not to be confused with sustainability hunting) of bison more than a century ago; a practice that coincided with farmers tilling the tall grass prairies in favor of crops over native grasses that the bison needed to survive on. We can hunt wolves, bobcats, mountain lions, fox and other predators where their numbers justify it and we do. I do not, but I support those that do legally. Lastly, you mention that if you:
Says who? If someone wishes to predator hunt and/or to trap to either make his or her living or to augment it, who are you to tell them that it is not a legitimate way of earning a living? I'm not sure what you do to earn a living, but perhaps it is not what others would consider as "legitimate". Who says that a legal means of selling fur means that someone is "in trouble"? I think you jumped off the deep end by falsely assuming that I and others are calling for the extermination of certain predators because we have some fun on this site and say things like "shoot them all". Again, if you assumed that I meant I wanted them exterminated, you would be wrong and I will apologize if it came across that way. In the meantime, there is no reason that hunters and trappers can't take some predators out of the equation any more than we can take other big game such as deer or small game via hunting or trapping or any legal means including falconry.
Everything in life is a balancing act. Hunting predators is included in that balance.
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
Rusty, I think this is very helpful.
I think some reasonable statement on this issue was warranted...
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Now if we are going to have a real scientific discussion on predator/prey relationships, let's talk about brown trout and rainbow trout stocked over native fish
. Now there's a topic we actually seldom delve into. Just finished a fantastic book by Anders Halverson entitled An Entirely Synthetic Fish: How Rainbow Trout Beguiled America and Overran the World. A must read for any trout or salmon angler that considers him or herself a conservationist. Phenomenal research went into it and it is a quick read with some wonderful history on the state of our fisheries today, how we got here, what things were done long ago in the name of science and conservation, why many of those things have lingered to this day and will be with us for generations to come, and so on. I highly recommend this book. Pick up a copy, it will get you through these snowy weeks remaining until we can once again catch natives and non-natives alike with dry flies. Because all other forms of fishing should be outlawed, including nymphing and streamer fishing.
let's see who calls me out on that last line as a "TU employee"
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
Now if we are going to have a real scientific discussion on predator/prey relationships, let's talk about brown trout and rainbow trout stocked over native fish
Because all other forms of fishing should be outlawed, including nymphing and streamer fishing.
let's see who calls me out on that last line as a "TU employee"
I bought the book this morning on your recommendation....
Made on another board...
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Who is going to read it to you?
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Let me know if you like it as much as I did. I know I learned a lot from it. When you get to the chapter that discusses aerial stocking of bows in states like CA, my father actually did that out of a Cessna back in the late 50s working as a seasonal employee of CA Fish & Game in the high Sierras where he grew up.
Felt we shot enough coyotes in the face, so it was high time we went
fftopic:
Lonewolve
New member
Again, The Coyote is not an indigenous predator to the Eastern United States of America..meaning east of the Mississippi. They do not belong here and are an invasive species east of the Mississippi. Last year I could have killed five coyotes while turkey hunting in the spring they walked right up on my fiance and I while we were moving to another setup.They never knew we were there till I whistled at them , And yes I could have killed them with a shot gun. I did not however even pull up on them because I believed that my Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag with 3 1/2" shells designed for turkey would have done nothing to them. They were in great shape.....no mange. Really healthy animals. If I had had my rifle though things would have been different. They are not a part of the Eastern Appalachain eco system, their range was west of the Mississippi. They belong there. They are as bad as feral hogs/boars. MAybe if you had seen what damage first hand as i have down south. The coyote is bad news.
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
I read about the aerial stocking in the preface...
gonna read as soon as baby naps.
gonna read as soon as baby naps.
Trout Fever
New member
you guys are to much.... i wrote this thread so people would talk on here not about right and wrongs.. just to change the topic and the thread went viral pretty rediculous.... i wasnt talking about gun control or anything and you guys had to take it there..... trapping and and hunting varmits has been done for more than a hundred years for the same reason fur!! thats it if your to close mined to realize that dont reply to my fucking thread... i know most of you dont even know what woods look like and how guns work and i feel sorry for you... but thats not my problem !!
unless you want to add to the quality information to this thread dont reply
john
unless you want to add to the quality information to this thread dont reply
john
G Lech
New member
Im not ok with it.
I respect people's right to do what they want within their legal rights.
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
Good to hear.
I see that the boss is presenting next month on the Smokies.
I would like to attend.
Would I be welcome?
G Lech
New member
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
I'm a nets fan...
Are they playing too?
I would regret missing the nets game, that's for sure...
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
Invasive: a term created by humans to tag organisms that fall under the umbrella of distaste. The term itself is ambiguous.
Let’s use invasive species in semantics of it's true nature and take the ambiguity out of it.
An organism that is placed in a new environment that is not due to natural migration into that environment.
By this definition; Mustangs, Pheasants, some species of trout, are by definition invasive.
Coyotes do not fall under this definition from what I read they moved into new territories, by a natural migration.
I did not find any evidence that supports your claim. From that research that I read Coyotes migrated into new habitats due to the niche left by the eradication of Wolves. “Could have used that in my research paper” There is speculation that there were some released, but no hard evidence to support this claim. The accepted theory is that they crossed frozen rivers to travel into new areas.
By the removal of Wolves, Coyotes filled the predatory void. Furthering my claim, that the removal of predators from an ecosystem can have unpredictable consequences.
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
Rusty the point I was trying to make, Having a no season kill all you want, approach has shown to be effective, but with underlying consequences and most often with undesirable effects.
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
Anything that is posted on hunting or guns on the Web is and will be looked at by the anti gun and hunting lobby. It is naïve not to think so, it is the society we live in today. It is our duty to show it is just an attack without merit. When we post we need to ensure the validity responsible gun ownership and not give the anti- second amendment lobby any fuel to there cause.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
The term is a scientific one. We have both native invasive species of plants and animals as well as non-native invasive plants and animals. Only non-natives (invasive or not) are introduced by man.
Controlled, regulated hunting of any animal, predators included, will not lead to their extirpation. After all, it was hunters and anglers that feared for the total extirpation of the animals and fish they sought that demanded we form fish and game management plans at the state and federal levels, limit our kill, and set aside tax dollars and create hunting and fishing license sales to help fund research, pay salaries for fish and game employees, improve habitat, etc.
Flytrap
At your moms house
I remember a thread back in the 1850's between chief two eagles and his tribe elder, he was expressing the same concerns as you except he was talking about the white man. I'll see if i can find the original thread.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Dam your old
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
tomfly, you're presenting a reasonable argument.
the notion that coyotes are invasive is difficult for me to understand.
the range of a species will expand and contract over time. As you pointed out, the coyote moved itself into New York, to replace another predator, the wolf, that was wiped out by man.
I'm not sure that coyote populations shouldn't be managed, and hunts allowed for the sake of management.
That's a separate issue.
i have a big problem with shooting dogs in the face and smoke grenades, or the argument that killing dogs is a good thing when there isn't anything better to do...
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Thank you for sharing......Two Dogs......
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
im sorry, Rusty, but I don't understand what a "native invasive species" is...
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GB used to attempt to teach the natives.
Similar threads
