Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
So I raise an issue with Tobias, who shot a dog in the face...
Would you rather he shot it in the ass, where you like it?
So I raise an issue with Tobias, who shot a dog in the face...
Beetle, if you only knew (that I wasn't "white") what it is really like to be in another country, away from your family, bored as shit, with 210x5.56mm rounds, 20x40mm HEDP (that stands for high explosive deep penetrating (we know you like deep penetration in your arse)) 5x40mm smoke grenades and a pack of wild dogs running around. Tell me oh wise one, what would you do to keep the morale up on an 8 hour checkpoint in the middle of some god for saken town with nothing but mud huts?
You guessed it. Play pin the smoke grenade on the wild dog. I laughed so hard I almost pissed my pants. It improved the morale of my men and that is all that matters.
If you need to sell pelts to make a buck, you are in trouble already.
Wow, tomfly, did you misinterpret my statements!!!!!!!! First of all, I have never hunted coyotes or other predators as I clearly stated. By "shoot them all" I was in no way saying that coyotes or any other predators should be exterminated. But I do firmly believe that there should be an open season for predators as there is currently and I support those that trap or shoot predators under the legal game laws we have in place. I have watched as predator numbers have increased while prey numbers have decreased. There are several factors that are in play, including lack of early successional forest habitat, falling fur prices, reintroduction of species like bobcats, the fact that Eastern coyotes have been proven through DNA analysis to have interbred with wolves, we have fewer hunters and trappers today, and other factors. If I believed we should exterminate coyotes, I would spend the time it took to hunt them. Again, I have never done so. Our Eastern ecosystems no longer have the predator/prey relationship they did before man's arrival in North America. We have killed off certain animals of both predators and prey and we have greatly manipulated the various habitats that these animals survived in. But man is not outside of the predator/prey environment, we are a part of it.
Modern wildlife management carefully balances the ability of man to hunt game species without wiping them out as did market hunting (not to be confused with sustainability hunting) of bison more than a century ago; a practice that coincided with farmers tilling the tall grass prairies in favor of crops over native grasses that the bison needed to survive on. We can hunt wolves, bobcats, mountain lions, fox and other predators where their numbers justify it and we do. I do not, but I support those that do legally. Lastly, you mention that if you:
Says who? If someone wishes to predator hunt and/or to trap to either make his or her living or to augment it, who are you to tell them that it is not a legitimate way of earning a living? I'm not sure what you do to earn a living, but perhaps it is not what others would consider as "legitimate". Who says that a legal means of selling fur means that someone is "in trouble"? I think you jumped off the deep end by falsely assuming that I and others are calling for the extermination of certain predators because we have some fun on this site and say things like "shoot them all". Again, if you assumed that I meant I wanted them exterminated, you would be wrong and I will apologize if it came across that way. In the meantime, there is no reason that hunters and trappers can't take some predators out of the equation any more than we can take other big game such as deer or small game via hunting or trapping or any legal means including falconry.
Everything in life is a balancing act. Hunting predators is included in that balance.
Rusty, I think this is very helpful.
I think some reasonable statement on this issue was warranted...
Now if we are going to have a real scientific discussion on predator/prey relationships, let's talk about brown trout and rainbow trout stocked over native fish. Now there's a topic we actually seldom delve into. Just finished a fantastic book by Anders Halverson entitled An Entirely Synthetic Fish: How Rainbow Trout Beguiled America and Overran the World. A must read for any trout or salmon angler that considers him or herself a conservationist. Phenomenal research went into it and it is a quick read with some wonderful history on the state of our fisheries today, how we got here, what things were done long ago in the name of science and conservation, why many of those things have lingered to this day and will be with us for generations to come, and so on. I highly recommend this book. Pick up a copy, it will get you through these snowy weeks remaining until we can once again catch natives and non-natives alike with dry flies.
Because all other forms of fishing should be outlawed, including nymphing and streamer fishing.
let's see who calls me out on that last line as a "TU employee"
I bought the book this morning on your recommendation....
Made on another board...
I bought the book this morning on your recommendation....
Made on another board...
George, if killing them is "pointless," why are you ok with it?
Im not ok with it.
I respect people's right to do what they want within their legal rights.
Good to hear.
I see that the boss is presenting next month on the Smokies.
I would like to attend.
Would I be welcome?
Sure, why not?
I cant make it
Knicks r playing pacers that night
Again, The Coyote is not an indigenous predator to the Eastern United States of America..meaning east of the Mississippi. They do not belong here and are an invasive species east of the Mississippi. Last year I could have killed five coyotes while turkey hunting in the spring they walked right up on my fiance and I while we were moving to another setup.They never knew we were there till I whistled at them , And yes I could have killed them with a shot gun. I did not however even pull up on them because I believed that my Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag with 3 1/2" shells designed for turkey would have done nothing to them. They were in great shape.....no mange. Really healthy animals. If I had had my rifle though things would have been different. They are not a part of the Eastern Appalachain eco system, their range was west of the Mississippi. They belong there. They are as bad as feral hogs/boars. MAybe if you had seen what damage first hand as i have down south. The coyote is bad news.
Wow, tomfly, did you misinterpret my statements!!!!!!!! First of all, I have never hunted coyotes or other predators as I clearly stated. By "shoot them all" I was in no way saying that coyotes or any other predators should be exterminated. But I do firmly believe that there should be an open season for predators as there is currently and I support those that trap or shoot predators under the legal game laws we have in place. I have watched as predator numbers have increased while prey numbers have decreased. There are several factors that are in play, including lack of early successional forest habitat, falling fur prices, reintroduction of species like bobcats, the fact that Eastern coyotes have been proven through DNA analysis to have interbred with wolves, we have fewer hunters and trappers today, and other factors. If I believed we should exterminate coyotes, I would spend the time it took to hunt them. Again, I have never done so. Our Eastern ecosystems no longer have the predator/prey relationship they did before man's arrival in North America. We have killed off certain animals of both predators and prey and we have greatly manipulated the various habitats that these animals survived in. But man is not outside of the predator/prey environment, we are a part of it.
Modern wildlife management carefully balances the ability of man to hunt game species without wiping them out as did market hunting (not to be confused with sustainability hunting) of bison more than a century ago; a practice that coincided with farmers tilling the tall grass prairies in favor of crops over native grasses that the bison needed to survive on. We can hunt wolves, bobcats, mountain lions, fox and other predators where their numbers justify it and we do. I do not, but I support those that do legally. Lastly, you mention that if you:
Says who? If someone wishes to predator hunt and/or to trap to either make his or her living or to augment it, who are you to tell them that it is not a legitimate way of earning a living? I'm not sure what you do to earn a living, but perhaps it is not what others would consider as "legitimate". Who says that a legal means of selling fur means that someone is "in trouble"? I think you jumped off the deep end by falsely assuming that I and others are calling for the extermination of certain predators because we have some fun on this site and say things like "shoot them all". Again, if you assumed that I meant I wanted them exterminated, you would be wrong and I will apologize if it came across that way. In the meantime, there is no reason that hunters and trappers can't take some predators out of the equation any more than we can take other big game such as deer or small game via hunting or trapping or any legal means including falconry.
Everything in life is a balancing act. Hunting predators is included in that balance.
you guys are to much.... i wrote this thread so people would talk on here not about right and wrongs.. just to change the topic and the thread went viral pretty rediculous.... i wasnt talking about gun control or anything and you guys had to take it there..... trapping and and hunting varmits has been done for more than a hundred years for the same reason fur!! thats it if your to close mined to realize that dont reply to my fucking thread... i know most of you dont even know what woods look like and how guns work and i feel sorry for you... but thats not my problem !!
unless you want to add to the quality information to this thread dont reply
john
Invasive: a term created by humans to tag organisms that fall under the umbrella of distaste. The term itself is ambiguous.
Furthering my claim, that the removal of predators from an ecosystem can have unpredictable consequences.
Again, The Coyote is not an indigenous predator to the Eastern United States of America..meaning east of the Mississippi. They do not belong here and are an invasive species east of the Mississippi. Last year I could have killed five coyotes while turkey hunting in the spring they walked right up on my fiance and I while we were moving to another setup.They never knew we were there till I whistled at them , And yes I could have killed them with a shot gun. I did not however even pull up on them because I believed that my Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag with 3 1/2" shells designed for turkey would have done nothing to them. They were in great shape.....no mange. Really healthy animals. If I had had my rifle though things would have been different. They are not a part of the Eastern Appalachain eco system, their range was west of the Mississippi. They belong there. They are as bad as feral hogs/boars. MAybe if you had seen what damage first hand as i have down south. The coyote is bad news.
I remember a thread back in the 1850's between chief two eagles and his tribe elder, he was expressing the same concerns as you except he was talking about the white man. I'll see if i can find the original thread.
Invasive: a term created by humans to tag organisms that fall under the umbrella of distaste. The term itself is ambiguous.
Let’s use invasive species in semantics of it's true nature and take the ambiguity out of it.
An organism that is placed in a new environment that is not due to natural migration into that environment.
By this definition; Mustangs, Pheasants, some species of trout, are by definition invasive.
Coyotes do not fall under this definition from what I read they moved into new territories, by a natural migration.
I did not find any evidence that supports your claim. From that research that I read Coyotes migrated into new habitats due to the niche left by the eradication of Wolves. “Could have used that in my research paper” There is speculation that there were some released, but no hard evidence to support this claim. The accepted theory is that they crossed frozen rivers to travel into new areas.
By the removal of Wolves, Coyotes filled the predatory void. Furthering my claim, that the removal of predators from an ecosystem can have unpredictable consequences.
The term is a scientific one. We have both native invasive species of plants and animals as well as non-native invasive plants and animals. Only non-natives (invasive or not) are introduced by man.
Controlled, regulated hunting of any animal, predators included, will not lead to their extirpation. After all, it was hunters and anglers that feared for the total extirpation of the animals and fish they sought that demanded we form fish and game management plans at the state and federal levels, limit our kill, and set aside tax dollars and create hunting and fishing license sales to help fund research, pay salaries for fish and game employees, improve habitat, etc.
im sorry, Rusty, but I don't understand what a "native invasive species" is...