The Fate of things to come in KLG???

[AKSkim]

I just posted about parking alongside Hoffman's Bridge, then read AJ's thread about a road inside the Gorge.

On my way into the Gorge tonight I just happened to spot two kayaker's coming down the stream and took this photo. She had to get out to get by the exposed rocks just down stream from the dam in the PRIVATE FISHING CLUB waters.

THIS could be more problematic to fly fisherman in the Gorge than parking or if a new roadway is going to be built.

When I was in the Smokies, the local fly shops have what they call TUBER WATCH. People riding down the stream on inner tubes or kayaks.

This is just ONE of the number of companies operating in The Great Smoky Mountains.

There were more buses to transport their clients up and down stream out back.

During the height of the summer season, you can forget about fishing, unless you are on the water at sun rise, and about 10 am your off. Too many TUBERS coming down stream to make it all worth while.

Don't think for a second that this might not happen here.

Just something to ponder.

 

[Corndog]

Don't think for a second that this might not happen here.

Just something to ponder.

Not on the Flatbrook.

Last time I saw a kayaker she was getting pelted with stones as she floated through the glide.

Of course I was innocent, my stone missed.

Cdog

 

[AKSkim]

my stone missed. Cdog

You were to busy BARKING orders.

Besides, I still have friends in high places.

Just give me the word.

and she has a dead-on aim.. and doesn't miss.

 

[Jheaney]

it wont matter anyway the state has delivered notice to all local residence along the river , that construction is going to start around the 22 of June in the gorge , the plan which is at lebanon township municipal building calls for the closing of the road from the lower end of the gorge , to the monument pool , then they intend to blast portions of the mountain , and raise the road in some area 12 to 18 feet, including in the plans dropping stone into the river ,the people that are making the decision , don't fish the gorge , and are clueless the plans also call for handicap docks , that after the first storm ,will be history.

i have gone to tu and discussed the construction, it seem to be falling deaf ears , they are going to destroy what we have put in place .

 

[ajfromnj]

Something is very suspicious about this one. Why are they doing restoration work on the Musky when they are going to impair something that is already good. I know I will ruffle feathers here but why didn't we hear about this one from TU? Maybe the state is letting them do certain things on the Musky in lieu of not fighting this one? I also wonder why the local fly shop is not up in arms about this one?

I just can't believe that this went through and no one even heard about it.

Also, John I know you did a lot for TU and I find it disturbing that they can't even make time to give you a call.

 

[NJDrew]

Last year I saw two kids in a raft trying to float down threw KLG. Needless to say, I think they did more walking than boating. I surprised that special regs areas like KLG and BFB dont have rules in place to handle this.

 

[sqerl]

On the discussion of tubers & Kayaks on the KLG, the Kayak and Canoe Club of New York 2008 Master Paddling Plan lists the Ken Lockwood Gorge as follows:
Raritan, S. Branch (Ken Lockwood Gorge), NJ Class III-IV. This River is listed on
the American Whitewater site.
Ref: KCCNY

The American Whitewater site (American Whitewater - Welcome)
says this about the stream...
American Whitewater - NWRI - Raritan, S. Branch Hoffman's Bridge to unnamed bridge at Readingsburg
Notable quote from link "It's a perfect training run for intermediate boaters."

This means we'll have to play nicely with the boaters as they attempt to walk down the middle of the stream, portaging their kayaks since the water lever won't allow them to get very far.

On the matter of the other subject.. there was this news release in October of '06 for the KLG:
NJDEP-News Release 06/59 - DEP Earmarks Funding to Improve Public Access at Ken Lockwood Gorge Wildlife Management Area
Basically, this was 150K of capital funding to improve public access to the KLG. It's not too hard to believe that it took 2 years for it to come to fruition. Unless the 150K was for the last round of rocks that were put down to be washed away and the current discussion is about a new initiative.

Not finding much else online... I'm sure someone will have info to share soon enough

 

[Rusty Spinner]

i have gone to tu and discussed the construction, it seem to be falling deaf ears , they are going to destroy what we have put in place .

John,

You know Rick Axt, state chair. Pick up the phone and call him, there's no need to bash TU publicly. You are an active member. Anyone that wishes to contact Rick, myself or anyone on state council can do so through our website (New Jersey State Council Trout Unlimited - New Jersey State Council Trout Unlimited). Before we all go off half-cocked, let's talk amongst ourselves. TU has not and will not sell out on the Gorge. I can only tell you that in my dealings with the state F&W, they strongly share our concerns. They have told the contractor that nothing is to begin work-wise without state approval and the state has asked TU and others for comments on final plans. They are still working on getting us the plans for our review and comments. This is not an imminent end of the Gorge as we know it!

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Something is very suspicious about this one. Why are they doing restoration work on the Musky when they are going to impair something that is already good. I know I will ruffle feathers here but why didn't we hear about this one from TU? Maybe the state is letting them do certain things on the Musky in lieu of not fighting this one? I also wonder why the local fly shop is not up in arms about this one?

I just can't believe that this went through and no one even heard about it.

Also, John I know you did a lot for TU and I find it disturbing that they can't even make time to give you a call.

Arron,

Same goes for you - you have my card, call me. I don't know who Heany reached out to, but I know it wasn't me and I don't think it was Rick. I'm sorry he didn't get satisfaction in whoever he dealt with, but TU is not sitting idly by. As for the state letting us do things on the Musky in lieu of paving a road through the Gorge, that almost isn't worth a response. TU has to go through all the same BS permits that anyone else would have to to do our stream restoration, dam removal, riparian buffers, cattle abatements, etc. We get no - and ask for no - favors from the state, we just often find ourselves working on projects together to better coldwater habitat as it should be.

Let's work together and get our facts straight. In the end, if the contractor had plans to bypass the state F&W and comments from TU and others and the road work were done, then this thread would have been useful, but to just take shots in the dark without any facts is foolish IMO. As I stated earlier, as soon as the state shares the plans and we talk, there will be more to say.

 

[Agust]

John reached out to me a few months back, and I raised this at the last state council meeting. The reason TU has not "done anything" is becasue there is nothing to do, yet. The concerns John identified are problems in the preliminary plan, and with some of the specific handicapped access "docks" were not in any of the plans I or F&G had seen, and they certainly would never have been approved. However, until a final formal plan is submitted for approval, there is little that can be done. Speculating on rumors is the surest way to lose credibility, and TU cannot afford that.

John, your pleas did not fall on deaf ears, but as I stated in our private correspondence and to you directly, until an actual plan is in place there is little to do. As to what "we" have created, the Gorge has been around a long time and unless you are much older than you appear, I submit that "we" did very little to create it. I have spoken to quite a few folks who recall fishing there long before either of us were born. About the only change over the last 30 odd years is the elimination of fly only regulations for TCA regulations, and I recall quite a few folks warning that would destroy the Gorge.

Accusations that TU "bartered" away the Gorge to get dispensation on work in the Musky are quite frankly offensive. First no one I know in TU would suggest that, and if they did I and a few other hot heads would squash it in a heartbeat. Integrity to me is not just a fad but an integral part of the TU mission. Second the folks at F&W have never had a problem letting TU know when we are wrong, in fact we rely on them to be the expert voice when some of our members suggest hair brained schemes. Lisa Barno may seem quiet and demure, but when it comes to her rivers she is a pit bull and a formidable adversary. She would never allow that kind of crap, and I pity the poor SOB that tries to suggest she would.

The current road is a huge problem and has been for a very long time, it must be fixed. No plan involving pavement, 12-18 foot elevation changes or filling in pools would ever get approval, but grading and some sort of stabilization is needed. I know Rick Axt is personally going over the plans, and quite frankly there are few folks with as much experience in this stuff as him. In addition there are folks from NRCS, EPA, DEP, F&W and yes even DOT that will have a say. Let's allow the process to move forward, and stop trying to find problems where none exist. There are plenty of real problems in the watershed already. (Solitude Dam, Califon Dam, Bartley Golf Course, over development in Mt. Olive, superfund sites and a road that drops tons of silt into the river every time it rains.)

I'm not as active on this site as many of you, but my name is Agust Gudmundsson, I am a former Chairman and the current Resource Director for the N.J. State Council of T.U. as well as a director at Central Jersey Trout Unlimited. However, the statements above are my own, and not officially those of either group.

 

[biot]

I for one hope they do the right thing, but only time will tell. Paving anything in my opinion is out of the question and these handicapped docks are just a waste of the money put aside for this project.
First flood and they will be history.

They should just fix the road and then close it completely, putting gates on each end.

 

[Corndog]

Biot brings up a good point, and I know this is slightly off topic, but does anybody know if the handicapped access on the BFB ever gets used by handicapped people? I've been fishing near there for years and have never seen a wheelchair.

Cdog

 

[onemorecast]

Biot brings up a good point, and I know this is slightly off topic, but does anybody know if the handicapped access on the BFB ever gets used by handicapped people? I've been fishing near there for years and have never seen a wheelchair.

Cdog

I don't know about the BFB, but I've seen the one at the Pequest used.

I'm okay with what is being recommended (close top half) and would be okay with them closing it altogether, but I sympathize with those who might not be able to walk in. Those of us who can get around on our own two feet should be very grateful for that ability! "There but by the grace of God, go I."

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Biot brings up a good point, and I know this is slightly off topic, but does anybody know if the handicapped access on the BFB ever gets used by handicapped people? I've been fishing near there for years and have never seen a wheelchair.

Cdog

My chapter (Fred Burroughs/North Jersey) built the BFB handicapped access and we always hear back from disabled fisherman that love the access we provided. I have seen wheelchair bound anglers use this location on a number of occasions. Because of these conversations, emails, and letters we continue to rebuild it as necessary since the feds won't fix the river (or allow us to do so properly) just above the bridge where the sharp bend is located, allowing the parking area to flood and washing out our access platform from behind every high water event. But that is a story for another thread.....

We have been approached to build one on State Parks land on the Musky (Stephens State Park). Our chapter also built the Pequest access which is also well used by handicapped anglers.

 

[AKSkim]

But that is a story for another thread.....

Whoa.. whoa... just hold on there a second Buckaroo Bob...

I have demonstrated a great deal of restraint in allowing TU to over run a thread started about kayaks. Yes my TU friends, KAYAKS!!!

Not road construction, wheel chair access, boat docks, hot dog stands, TCA reg's, or even the MUSKY!!!! None of this has anything to do with kayaks bumping into rocks located in KLG...!

...... and Petie-Po gets on me about not staying on topic or hijacking ..

Course.. when an ORGANIZED group suddenly take over one of MY threads... Petie-Po isn't any where to be found!

DC.. I DEMAND a formal investigation into Petie's performmance!

Until then, Rusty, you have MY permission to continue to trample MY thread on kayaks. MY personal feelings be damned! Have at it!

As always, ........ what ever.....

AK Skim
NEFF Office of Fair Play

 

[Corndog]

My chapter (Fred Burroughs/North Jersey) built the BFB handicapped access and we always hear back from disabled fisherman that love the access we provided. I have seen wheelchair bound anglers use this location on a number of occasions. Because of these conversations, emails, and letters we continue to rebuild it as necessary since the feds won't fix the river (or allow us to do so properly) just above the bridge where the sharp bend is located, allowing the parking area to flood and washing out our access platform from behind every high water event. But that is a story for another thread.....

We have been approached to build one on State Parks land on the Musky (Stephens State Park). Our chapter also built the Pequest access which is also well used by handicapped anglers.

Brian,

That's great! I'm glad to hear that it gets used. I fish near there, but walk past that pool and never fish it. I feel guilty like I'm catching their fish. Kinda like parking in a handicapped spot.

Hopefully, I will never need a handicapped spot like that for myself, but I'm sure the guys that need it really appreciate it.

Cdog

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Okay Skim - to bring us back on track here's a funny kayak story from the Gorge. Time was this March in high water. I was fishing the Gorge when 4 'yakers come down. Three seemed to at least have a small idea what they were doing, the right kayaks, proper gear, decent handling skills and the like. Dude # 4 not so much. He's in a pink lake model kayak, wearing jeans and a (cotton) sweatshirt. Watched him roll over about 4 times in a hundred yards. Wet to the bones and freezing his a$$ off. This guy bails out at the Trestle Pool parking lot with a promise from his buddies that they will finish their ride to the lower Gorge and then head back to pick him up in a few minutes.

I continue to fish for at least another 1/2 hour and head back to the car at the trestle parking lot. There's our pink kayak kid, now with badly chattering teeth. I offer him a ride. "No thanks, my buddies are on their way". I head south and run into the other 3, standing next to their trucks, kayaks loaded, dry clothes on, drinking their 3rd or 4th beers each. I stop and tell them about their frozen buddy upstream. After ascertaining that he wasn't likely "near death", they told me it was his first time and he's borrowed his girlfriend's 'yak for the day. I left them after they proclaimed to each other that they would only have 2 more beers each before picking him up.

What are friends for after all?

 

[Agust]

The handicapped access area on the flatbrook serves 2 purposes, first access for disabled anglers, but almost as important it was designed to aid in stabilizing the bank immediately above the bridge. As Rusty pointed out the NPS stonewalling us on maintenance has made the stability harder to control, but the site is probably the only reason the bridge still stands.

As to sites in the Gorge, high water will be an issue as it always is in there. At the same time a well designed and correctly constructed handicapped access is worth building. As the population of anglers ages, unfortunately more and more of us will end up needing the sites. Until I see the actual plans, I'll refrain from commenting on their viability or lack there of.

Getting back to the thread. My son and I were on the Saranac river last weekend, he was wading about 5 feet from shore in a river that is close to 100 feet wide. A kayaker shot by within 5 feet of him, and tucking intot he backwater he was fishing. Literally stopping and paddling over his line. He actually stopped to say hi, before going downstream again. We were dumbfounded and he was gone before we could even react. He did not even have a clue he had just spoiled the pool my son had spent 15 minutes getting into position to fish.

 

[Corndog]

The handicapped access area on the flatbrook serves 2 purposes, first access for disabled anglers, but almost as important it was designed to aid in stabilizing the bank immediately above the bridge. As Rusty pointed out the NPS stonewalling us on maintenance has made the stability harder to control, but the site is probably the only reason the bridge still stands.

As to sites in the Gorge, high water will be an issue as it always is in there. At the same time a well designed and correctly constructed handicapped access is worth building. As the population of anglers ages, unfortunately more and more of us will end up needing the sites. Until I see the actual plans, I'll refrain from commenting on their viability or lack there of.

Getting back to the thread. My son and I were on the Saranac river last weekend, he was wading about 5 feet from shore in a river that is close to 100 feet wide. A kayaker shot by within 5 feet of him, and tucking intot he backwater he was fishing. Literally stopping and paddling over his line. He actually stopped to say hi, before going downstream again. We were dumbfounded and he was gone before we could even react. He did not even have a clue he had just spoiled the pool my son had spent 15 minutes getting into position to fish.

Exactly! Their oblivious to the fact that their spooking the fish. Happens to me all summer long on the BigD. I've even had to push some canoes, kayaks, and rafts away so they wouldn't knock me over. I was in a driftboat last summer and actually had a canoe run into us. We were anchored.

Cdog

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Unfortunately, this is an age old problem and not at all confined to fishermen and kayakers. Whenever two different user groups meet without a good understanding of each other's sport, someone is bound to get pissed off. I was out striper fishing on Monday - live lining bunker behind the boat (fly rod at the ready just to keep it NEFF approved) when a big old pleasure boat came roaring over our lines. I doubt it was intentional, he just didn't know better. It wound up pulling our anchor, setting us adrift, and blowing out our fish just as we were getting steady action.:crap:

We've probably all had a rising fish on the D and had a canoe float by, fire a Rapala at the rising fish that we are fishing to and continue on its way, oblivious to the fact that they just screwed us for that fish. Yell, scream or just live with it. Whatever makes you feel better after the encounter is over...

 

[Stonefly]

Just a question, but as the Gorge is a WMA, don't anglers have the right of way as they are licensed? And if a kayaker cuts in front of you, gets in you way, or knocks you down, could they be charged under the Hunter and Angler Act, passed during Florio's term as they are impeding your licensed ability to fish? Just a thought.