Protect The Delaware River!!!!!

[klg neighbor]

There is a certain amount of confidence that I have concerning what you can do and I agree with MACFLY that some of your statements have merit, but it is getting loss with your message of displeasure/hatred about TU. It is over-riding any message about the need to protect the Delaware and your bashing about what has or has not been done hurts the end goal.

I'm coming into this debate not Knowing the history of what's been done, who is involved or what particular circumstances of you and TU. Call me green in the particulars, but what is overly clear is your animosity for Trout Unlimited. The Delaware needs better water releases - Period. Get over your personal issues.

When this thread gets back to talking about what can be done to HELP and not with who to blame, it will be worthwhile.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I have my hands full running my own organization.

From what I can see there is already a lot of enthusiasm here and great people, although they seem to have lost their direction.

Going forward, the clearest vision appears to be coming from FUDR. Their website states what is needed quite clearly and concisely. Other groups would do well to support their goals.

What is lacking is a well-thought-out campaign to get there. TU could - and should - assist by providing staff and funding. The Delaware Riverkeeper has the expertise in litigation. Combined, these organizations could accomplish a great deal.

 

[Stonefly]

Exactly. I'm just stating what a lot of people are thinking but are too polite to say. If the TU reps on this board took this as constructive criticism rather than an attack, they would be getting somewhere. Fewer excuses, more ideas.

Critcism? All we get from you is attacks and criticism! TU National doesn't control the Coalition Webpage and isn't the group that owns the site.

 

[Stonefly]

Agust,

I don't know what the Pequannock (not 'Pequonock') River Coalition has to do with this. I am not speaking here on behalf of my group, just as a concerned angler. But when we started, we were fighting Newark for flows out of Oak Ridge Reservoir. Almost everyone in TU told me it couldn't be done, can't fight city hall, forget it. I raise about $8,000 - peanuts really - but with that I hired an attorney, beat Newark, got the flows and returned half of the $8,000 to the parties who contributed, including TU. Believe me, you got more than your money's worth.

Sadly, you are making my point. If TU has the resources to fund 9 projects and 4 staff people they can cough up the dough for the Delaware. At some point, Agust, you have to quit making excuses and admit that you have gotten waaaaay off track. The best defense is not always a good offense.

Again, I ask how are you "pulling together"? What's the plan? Where are we headed???? Give me something, anything that sounds like a strategy and a vision for the future.

Correction East Jersey Chapter of TU hired the attorney and paid the orginal bills not you. I seem to remember you were removed for running up his bills with phone calls!!!!! You do remeber the board meeting when you walked out don't you?

 

[COZ]

You are correct that the enforcement was non existent. It was the DEC that calls for the water in relation to the Bank and temp target. At least when we had a potential temp problem a few calls to DEC would result in some cold water releases. As you may know the DRBC then came out with a statement at a DRBC meeting in Hayley PA that they could not maintane the temperature target at Hankins and would move it to Lordville some 12 miles up stream and keep the same temp target there. No matter what the issue and no matter what DRBC promisses we can not settle for anything short of guaranteed releases of X from X to X. This magic # needs to keep the river watered from bank to bank and the water temp at Stilesville cool enough during the heat of summer. The experts do know what these numbers are. And they are not 114, 225, 350, 450 or 500 CFS release. Most importantly they the DRBC must be held accountable for the maintanence of this agreement.

COZ

 

[rossk]

Correction East Jersey Chapter of TU hired the attorney and paid the orginal bills not you. I seem to remember you were removed for running up his bills with phone calls!!!!! You do remeber the board meeting when you walked out don't you?

No, Rick, I was not removed. TU did pay the bills out of their checking account, but I ran the entire campaign, I hired the attorney, I was the one who raised every cent of the money, and I was the one who wrote out the checks when we returned half of it. I am sitting in my office right now looking at the award TU gave me for that effort in 1995, and the press clippings thanking me. Would you like a picture of them?

You, on the other hand, were calling people behind my back during that fight and telling them not to contribute because they were, in your words, throwing their money away. I have several witnesses so don't deny it. In spite of your backstabbing we succeeded.

I don't remember walking out of a board meeting, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit. Dealing with people like you is the reason I left TU, despite being offered the presidency of the East Jersey TU chapter.

Get your facts straight.

 

[rossk]

There is a certain amount of confidence that I have concerning what you can do and I agree with MACFLY that some of your statements have merit, but it is getting loss with your message of displeasure/hatred about TU. It is over-riding any message about the need to protect the Delaware and your bashing about what has or has not been done hurts the end goal.

I'm coming into this debate not Knowing the history of what's been done, who is involved or what particular circumstances of you and TU. Call me green in the particulars, but what is overly clear is your animosity for Trout Unlimited. The Delaware needs better water releases - Period. Get over your personal issues.

When this thread gets back to talking about what can be done to HELP and not with who to blame, it will be worthwhile.

I am sorry if this has gotten off track. But this heated exchange has been a 2-way street.

I am certainly willing to leave the past in the past. Going forward we cannot ignore the issue of the funding and staff that are absolutely essential to any campaign. Obviously TU has the most to offer there. I have asked again and again for someone in TU to tell me where they are going with this. What's the plan? I think that's a fair question. If the response is they have no plan and can commit no funding, then we can simply write them off and move on. I think that's fair too.

OK?

 

[klg neighbor]

I am sorry if this has gotten off track. But this heated exchange has been a 2-way street.

I am certainly willing to leave the past in the past. Going forward we cannot ignore the issue of the funding and staff that are absolutely essential to any campaign. Obviously TU has the most to offer there. I have asked again and again for someone in TU to tell me where they are going with this. What's the plan? I think that's a fair question. If the response is they have no plan and can commit no funding, then we can simply write them off and move on. I think that's fair too.

OK?

Maybe you're asking the wrong people? Maybe the lack of an answer is your answer? Maybe (and I think this is truer than you'd admit), but maybe you will not be satisfied until someone from TU says that they are/were an utterly complete failure and ask, strike that, beg for your guidance and leadership. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that is how your posts read.

Just assume an answer to your questions is not forthcoming on this forum and offer to help if you are dissatisfied. Or offer new insight or information to the groups already involved if you are too busy to get involved yourself.

Then sit back, monitor the situation and if you're still dissatisfied after some time has transpired, either get involved or offer more new information for the groups involved to consider. And you may find yourself still dissatisfied after all that. But going over ad nauseum that TU is not allocating enough funds towards the project does not help.

 

[MACFLY]

Maybe you're asking the wrong people? Maybe the lack of an answer is your answer? Maybe (and I think this is truer than you'd admit), but maybe you will not be satisfied until someone from TU says that they are/were an utterly complete failure and ask, strike that, beg for your guidance and leadership. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that is how your posts read.

Just assume an answer to your questions is not forthcoming on this forum and offer to help if you are dissatisfied. Or offer new insight or information to the groups already involved if you are too busy to get involved yourself.

Then sit back, monitor the situation and if you're still dissatisfied after some time has transpired, either get involved or offer more new information for the groups involved to consider. And you may find yourself still dissatisfied after all that. But going over ad nauseum that TU is not allocating enough funds towards the project does not help.

Sorry but I disagree. Its completely acceptable to ask hard questions when the situation on the delaware has not improved one bit. Once again that doesnt mean people arent working on it but its fair to ask the questions. I would state the lack of answers is more telling than anything else. One group that is particularly quiet at the moment is FUDR. THats not normally the MO

Lets all grow some thick skin and have an honest debate on what has been done and what needs to be done. Lets not throw stones at somone who is asking some challenging questions. One example. If TU, FUDR, and the Delaware all sat down together perhaps a few ideas could emerge.

Again Im not intending to disparage anyone or any organization but enough already. We are fighting amongst ourselves but no one has laid a glove on NYC.

 

[klg neighbor]

Sorry but I disagree. Its completely acceptable to ask hard questions when the situation on the delaware has not improved one bit. Once again that doesnt mean people arent working on it but its fair to ask the questions. I would state the lack of answers is more telling than anything else. One group that is particularly quiet at the moment is FUDR. THats not normally the MO

Lets all grow some thick skin and have an honest debate on what has been done and what needs to be done. Lets not throw stones at somone who is asking some challenging questions. One example. If TU, FUDR, and the Delaware all sat down together perhaps a few ideas could emerge.

Again Im not intending to disparage anyone or any organization but enough already. We are fighting amongst ourselves but no one has laid a glove on NYC.

I did state that, but didn't know I had to carry everything I've posted along to every new thread. In case you missed it, here it is again.

There is a certain amount of confidence that I have concerning what you can do and I agree with MACFLY that some of your statements have merit, but it is getting loss with your message of displeasure/hatred about TU. It is over-riding any message about the need to protect the Delaware and your bashing about what has or has not been done hurts the end goal.

I'm coming into this debate not Knowing the history of what's been done, who is involved or what particular circumstances of you and TU. Call me green in the particulars, but what is overly clear is your animosity for Trout Unlimited. The Delaware needs better water releases - Period. Get over your personal issues.

When this thread gets back to talking about what can be done to HELP and not with who to blame, it will be worthwhile.

So, you see we do agree! Sorry you missed it.

 

[rossk]

[/quote]Maybe you're asking the wrong people? Maybe the lack of an answer is your answer? Maybe (and I think this is truer than you'd admit), but maybe you will not be satisfied until someone from TU says that they are/were an utterly complete failure and ask, strike that, beg for your guidance and leadership. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that is how your posts read.

Just assume an answer to your questions is not forthcoming on this forum and offer to help if you are dissatisfied. Or offer new insight or information to the groups already involved if you are too busy to get involved yourself.

Then sit back, monitor the situation and if you're still dissatisfied after some time has transpired, either get involved or offer more new information for the groups involved to consider. And you may find yourself still dissatisfied after all that. But going over ad nauseum that TU is not allocating enough funds towards the project does not help.[/quote]

I don't know what you are reading, but it isn't my posts.

TU a complete failure? I have stated that I think a lot of good work has been done up to this point. Much of that by TU.

Beg for my guidance and leadership? I have said that I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of this issue. You have people like Coz who do, and who are already providing leadership. Why ask for mine?

Offer to assist? I have offered to help repeatedly.

Does not help? I beg to differ. I think legitimate complaints may convince TU to do the right thing here and commit more resources to this issue.

 

[MACFLY]

I did state that, but didn't know I had to carry everything I've posted along to every new thread. In case you missed it, here it is again.



So, you see we do agree! Sorry you missed it.

Tim I didnt miss it. No you dont need to carry things forward. Your last post just seems to want to paint Rossk as a bitter guy who wants to harass TU. Im saying we should be able to ask any questions..hard as they may be....in the hopes that something positive might come out of it. Now there is clearly history between Ross and others and Im not interested in the particulars. I open my last couple of issues of TU and have reviewed some of the requests for donations I have received for national TU. I can clearly see specific requests for donations for places such as the Madison river,battenkill, and others. Why not start a similar campaign for the Delaware. You cant tell me its not at least somewhat disconcerting we dont have more publicity on this. Perhaps its fair to say we all own a piece of why we are in the situation we are in. A combination of apathy on the part of many that fish the river, infighting among those that are involved, and a lack of real leadership from National TU. With that in mind i think its useful to hear from folks that have taken on tasks that were though impossible and had some success. Like a lot of other threads this one is getting old.

I submit that perhaps why no one has answered Ross is because there are a distinct lack of answers. One mans opinion.

 

[klg neighbor]

Whatever - I don't have time to extract the specific quotes and inferences. Prove me wrong and you right by future posts that does not bash TU. You have already posted you don't think they've done enough and it has been explained by Brian, Agust and Rick. Future posts don't need to rehash these points. So what else do you have that can help?

Maybe you're asking the wrong people? Maybe the lack of an answer is your answer? Maybe (and I think this is truer than you'd admit), but maybe you will not be satisfied until someone from TU says that they are/were an utterly complete failure and ask, strike that, beg for your guidance and leadership. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that is how your posts read.

Just assume an answer to your questions is not forthcoming on this forum and offer to help if you are dissatisfied. Or offer new insight or information to the groups already involved if you are too busy to get involved yourself.

Then sit back, monitor the situation and if you're still dissatisfied after some time has transpired, either get involved or offer more new information for the groups involved to consider. And you may find yourself still dissatisfied after all that. But going over ad nauseum that TU is not allocating enough funds towards the project does not help.

I don't know what you are reading, but it isn't my posts.

TU a complete failure? I have stated that I think a lot of good work has been done up to this point. Much of that by TU.

Beg for my guidance and leadership? I have said that I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of this issue. You have people like Coz who do, and who are already providing leadership. Why ask for mine?

Offer to assist? I have offered to help repeatedly.

Does not help? I beg to differ. I think legitimate complaints may convince TU to do the right thing here and commit more resources to this issue.

 

[AKSkim]

"TU a complete failure? I have stated that I think a lot of good work has been done up to this point. Much of that by TU."

So let me get this straight, this whole thing is about telephone bills and who didn't or did pay them?

BTW

Anyone purchase a new pair of Hodgman waders, or wading boots lately and has no plans on the free offer of a years membership in TU???

Seems like the people at the Sportsman Center know me.. and won't let me near the wader section without an employee standing right beside me.

Well, I have sent many letters to TU, and still no free membership for me.
I still want that job fishing sites then blogging about them. Next letter I will put in that I will be more than willing to go 50/50 on the phone bills. After all... they will be paying me right?

As always, beholding to Ma-Bell.

AK Skim

 

[AKSkim]

WARNING.......... WARNING............

BROWNIE POINTS ALERT !!!!!!

Brian, Agust and Rick. Future posts don't need to rehash these points.

Ahhhh.... so very sweet of you to be so kind.

 

[klg neighbor]

WARNING.......... WARNING............

BROWNIE POINTS ALERT !!!!!!




Ahhhh.... so very sweet of you to be so kind.

Hmmmm, could you be Jealous?

 

[Stonefly]

No, Rick, I was not removed. TU did pay the bills out of their checking account, but I ran the entire campaign, I hired the attorney, I was the one who raised every cent of the money, and I was the one who wrote out the checks when we returned half of it. I am sitting in my office right now looking at the award TU gave me for that effort in 1995, and the press clippings thanking me. Would you like a picture of them?

You, on the other hand, were calling people behind my back during that fight and telling them not to contribute because they were, in your words, throwing their money away. I have several witnesses so don't deny it. In spite of your backstabbing we succeeded.

I don't remember walking out of a board meeting, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit. Dealing with people like you is the reason I left TU, despite being offered the presidency of the East Jersey TU chapter.

Get your facts straight

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I just want to point out now that this dead horse has be kicked, run over and kicked again that NYC still has the keys to the kingdom while we are successful only in driving a wedge between the one group that might have a tiny chance at real change. NYC 1, fishing community 0

I think each of us has excorcised our demons, at least I hope we have. None of us is free of skeletons in our closets. And I mean NONE of us! How about we get back to fighting NYC and not each other? Seems to be a novel approach, but all this anger is pointed in the wrong direction. I'm going to try to take my own advice and fight for trout and the water that they live in. What's your next move everyone???

 

[AKSkim]

giving you money when we were short on funds

UMmmm.. Stonefly.. can you get me a free membership?

How about a TU hat too?

Flies?

Tippet?

anything else would be greatly ..... liked.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

UMmmm.. Stonefly.. can you get me a free membership?

How about a TU hat too?

Flies?

Tippet?

anything else would be greatly ..... liked.

AK - I can give you a free TU hat and a free TU membership, but you're likely already a member. That hat offer stands, however.
As for flies, I'd be embarrassed as mine are likely not going to meet your standards, I've seen your bench and it scares me! Tippet, well now you're just on your own....

 

[AKSkim]

I just want to point out now that this dead horse has be kicked

Yeah.. but that was over on NJCarp...

This is all new to us over here on NEFF.

Now sooner or later I see what side I want to join.. and guess what.. I'll win.

Oh yeah baby....

TU v. ... what is the name of the opposing side in this case?? Could it be… TU?

"Judge, AK Skim, Esq. for the Plaintiff ... TU"

"Judge, AK Skim, Esq. for the Defendant ... TU"

HUMmmm. let me have another Coronoa <ST1</ST1or two and get back to everyone.. this one has got me .... TU v TU.. or was it TU v TU????

Yup.. for the first time in NEFF History.. AK Skim has declared this dead horse.. DEAD.<O</O

 

[gadfly]

I ran the entire campaign, I hired the attorney, I was the one who raised every cent of the money, and I was the one who wrote out the checks when we returned half of it. I am sitting in my office right now looking at the award TU gave me for that effort in 1995, and the press clippings thanking me. Would you like a picture of them?

You, on the other hand, were calling people behind my back during that fight and telling them not to contribute because they were, in your words, throwing their money away. I have several witnesses so don't deny it. In spite of your backstabbing we succeeded.

I admit that I don't know much about this issue and TU's efforts. For all i know some of it may be true. However, I have to say that the severe criticism of TU in a public forum by a colleague and partner comes off as very unprofessional. The quote above suggests that there are some serious hard feelings from past dealings.

 

[AKSkim]

AK - a free TU membership, but you're likely already a member.

Well, I was TU King for a day once.. does that count?

AK Skim

Former Trout Unlimited king.


Conservation isn't just a tag line!
It's the whole clothes line!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Well, I was TU King for a day once.. does that count?

AK Skim

Former Trout Unlimited king.


Conservation isn't just a tag line!
It's the whole clothes line!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

It does! And you have the free hat coming to you...

 

[rossk]

I admit that I don't know much about this issue and TU's efforts. For all i know some of it may be true. However, I have to say that the severe criticism of TU in a public forum by a colleague and partner comes off as very unprofessional. The quote above suggests that there are some serious hard feelings from past dealings.

Let me get this straight. Its OK for Rick Ege to dredge up something totally unrelated to the Delaware from 15 years ago, to call me a liar and accuse me of misusing funds. That's not unprofessional. But when I defend myself with the truth, I'm the bad guy. You must be kidding.

Hey, I've had wonderful dealings with other folks in TU. Even Rick Ege can't spoil the whole group.

I would be more than happy to restrict this discussion to the Delaware, its problems, and potential solutions. In fact, I've tried to do that. But you can't ignore TU's role or potential role. My opinion is that they aren't stepping up to the plate here. If that is severe criticism, so be it.

 

[rossk]

I just want to point out now that this dead horse has be kicked, run over and kicked again that NYC still has the keys to the kingdom while we are successful only in driving a wedge between the one group that might have a tiny chance at real change. NYC 1, fishing community 0

I think each of us has excorcised our demons, at least I hope we have. None of us is free of skeletons in our closets. And I mean NONE of us! How about we get back to fighting NYC and not each other? Seems to be a novel approach, but all this anger is pointed in the wrong direction. I'm going to try to take my own advice and fight for trout and the water that they live in. What's your next move everyone???

I agree 100%.

At the risk of getting slammed again, with all due respect, politely and professionally, I would like to ask, does TU have some kind of game plan going forward?

It's OK to say "No". Maybe we are starting from scratch. That can happen.

Also, what is the likelihood of TU hiring staff dedicated to this issue. I'm not looking for the "why" and "why not", just a straight answer.

It would also be good to know if you are currently working with an attorney on this.

In addition, what is TU looking for? What are your specific goals for the Delaware?

Much appreciated!

 

[onemorecast]

I agree 100%.

At the risk of getting slammed again, with all due respect, politely and professionally, I would like to ask, does TU have some kind of game plan going forward?

In addition, what is TU looking for? What are your specific goals for the Delaware?

So why are you asking here? Shouldn't you be directing these questions to TU itself? This is NEFF, not TU. Earlier in this thread, I posted the link to the Eastern Conservation staff directory. Ask one of those people, one of whom is an attorney or at least used to be.

I'd like to know TU's game plan, too, but I'm not going to badger Brian and Rick about it. As far as I know, it is out of the scope of Brian's job to either know the answers to your questions or to find them out.

As far as I can see, you are not only beating a dead horse, but a horse that's attached to the wrong cart.

 

[rossk]

So why are you asking here? Shouldn't you be directing these questions to TU itself? This is NEFF, not TU. Earlier in this thread, I posted the link to the Eastern Conservation staff directory. Ask one of those people, one of whom is an attorney or at least used to be.

I'd like to know TU's game plan, too, but I'm not going to badger Brian and Rick about it. As far as I know, it is out of the scope of Brian's job to either know the answers to your questions or to find them out.

As far as I can see, you are not only beating a dead horse, but a horse that's attached to the wrong cart.

Way ahead of you. I sent an email to Charles Gauvin this morning posing the same questions. I figured I would start at the top there. I will post his response, if any.

If none of the people contributing here knows the answers they can just say that, or not respond at all. No harm done. What's the big deal?

Personally, I would be using this board to get TU's message on the Delaware before the public. A great opportunity for outreach.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I agree 100%.

At the risk of getting slammed again, with all due respect, politely and professionally, I would like to ask, does TU have some kind of game plan going forward?

It's OK to say "No". Maybe we are starting from scratch. That can happen.

Also, what is the likelihood of TU hiring staff dedicated to this issue. I'm not looking for the "why" and "why not", just a straight answer.

It would also be good to know if you are currently working with an attorney on this.

In addition, what is TU looking for? What are your specific goals for the Delaware?

Much appreciated!

Ross,

This will be my last post on this thread. Those here at NEFF may not know you yet and don't know that all you like to do when it comes to TU is poke a stick in our eyes. Must be nice to not live in a glass house (but you do, and please remember that we all know where your skeletons are but so far we have NOT placed you on the defensive - 'nuff said).

As for staff - here is my third or fourth post on the same topic (I'm not going back to count). TU is and has been actively seeking funding to hire another Catskills Coordinator. No foundations have shown interest in funding it because foundations realize the enormity of the issues at hand and don't want to see their monies spent on "maybes" and "let's hope so". If concrete results were a reality, we'd see plenty of funds coming in. TU has a Coldwater Conservation fund with big monied members leading fund raising for certain projects. Even these deep pocketed Wall Street types can't get funding for this position. Again, 100% of TU's conservation staff are funded with foundation or private funding. We are not planning to change that anytime soon. Your (not you, you are not a member) $35 dues goes to processing a membership, the calendar, the bumper sticker, overhead at TU's offices (including non-conservation staff i.e. - keeping the lights on and getting the bills paid), and our direct mail campaign.
There is NO slush fund to hire conservation staff.

As for lawyers, TU has a staff of lawyers working on water rights issues, Marcellus shale, etc. None has been able to find a hook yet to get (through the courts) NYC to change its water releases. That ship sailed in 1954 when a little court known as the US Supreme Court issued an historic ruling to the current Decree parties. TU has also consulted a large number of environmental attornies outside of thier own staff over the years with the same results. I know that FUDR and the flood groups have hired attornies, yet - if you noticed- there have been no resulting suits started to date.

Lastly, as for TU's goals for the Delaware, they are the same as everyone here would want - enough cold water to sustain the coldwater habitat down to the historical Callicoon area for trout while proving to that little town to the East that we won't run them out of water, killing 9 million citizens or forcing their city to shut down.

Those are straight answers, but then again so were my other answers - you just don't accept them. Please let me know if you hear from Charles. He is in Utah at our national meeting, don't know if he has email access or the time to respond to them. Please post here if he does. As for TU's plan, I will not and cannot speak to it publicly. Others can and already have.

By the way, how are the flows on the Pequannock now that you've had 13 years to work on them? See what I mean - it's tough to fight city hall when city hall has most/all of the cards.

 

[rossk]

Question for Coz

Coz,

As far as legal help, has anyone contacted the law clinics operating in our area? The 2 I am most familiar with are the Mid-Atlantic Environmental Law Center and the Eastern Environmental Law Center.

I can PM you contact info if you are interested. They may be able to help at no cost.

 

[rossk]

Ross,

This will be my last post on this thread. Those here at NEFF may not know you yet and don't know that all you like to do when it comes to TU is poke a stick in our eyes. Must be nice to not live in a glass house (but you do, and please remember that we all know where your skeletons are but so far we have NOT placed you on the defensive - 'nuff said).

As for staff - here is my third or fourth post on the same topic (I'm not going back to count). TU is and has been actively seeking funding to hire another Catskills Coordinator. No foundations have shown interest in funding it because foundations realize the enormity of the issues at hand and don't want to see their monies spent on "maybes" and "let's hope so". If concrete results were a reality, we'd see plenty of funds coming in. TU has a Coldwater Conservation fund with big monied members leading fund raising for certain projects. Even these deep pocketed Wall Street types can't get funding for this position. Again, 100% of TU's conservation staff are funded with foundation or private funding. We are not planning to change that anytime soon. Your (not you, you are not a member) $35 dues goes to processing a membership, the calendar, the bumper sticker, overhead at TU's offices (including non-conservation staff i.e. - keeping the lights on and getting the bills paid), and our direct mail campaign.
There is NO slush fund to hire conservation staff.

As for lawyers, TU has a staff of lawyers working on water rights issues, Marcellus shale, etc. None has been able to find a hook yet to get (through the courts) NYC to change its water releases. That ship sailed in 1954 when a little court known as the US Supreme Court issued an historic ruling to the current Decree parties. TU has also consulted a large number of environmental attornies outside of thier own staff over the years with the same results. I know that FUDR and the flood groups have hired attornies, yet - if you noticed- there have been no resulting suits hired to date.

Lastly, as for TU's goals for the Delaware, they are the same as everyone here would want - enough cold water to sustain the coldwater habitat down to the historical Callicoon area for trout while proving to that little town to the East that we won't run them out of water, killing 9 million citizens or forcing their city to shut down.

Those are straight answers, but then again so were my other answers - you just don't accept them. Please let me know if you hear from Charles. He is in Utah at our national meeting, don't know if he has email access or the time to respond to them. Please post here if he does. As for TU's plan, I will not and cannot speak to it publicly. Others can and already have.

By the way, how are the flows on the Pequannock now that you've had 13 years to work on them? See what I mean - it's tough to fight city hall when city hall has most/all of the cards.

Brian,

I appreciate the straight answers. No staff in the forseeable future and no legal strategy. It's sad that you couldn't let it go at that.

If you want me to lay out the strategy for the Pequannock, where we've been, where we are headed, and what our attorneys are up to, I'd be happy to oblige, but I don't think it would interest folks on this thread. However, I'm very hopeful that our flow issue will be resolved by next year. Yes, we have spent 13 years working on it. As I've said before, there has always been a plan, and there has always been progress. Would you like the list of accomplishments, year by year? We can't say that for the Delaware.

The beginning of your response implies some kind of veiled threat. Wrong approach with me. Bring it on!