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Pequest Report

DaveR

DaveR

Combat Fly Fisherman
Well - I made it to the Pequest yesterday. Thanks DaveB for the directions. Fished from 8:30am to about 1:30pm from the hatchery bridge downstream to the bridge at Pequest Furnace Rd. Water was 36 degrees - too cold for the fish - due to the snowmelt, but I got a chance to reconnoiter the area and will return when things warm up a bit.

Dennis - I see what you mean about the crazies at the hatchery outflow. I walked up to check it out and there were three guys 20 feet apart fishing the warm water flowing out of the hatchery. Looked like they had the fish corralled so they couldn't get away! I guess if you want to catch fish, it's the place to be, but just doesn't seem sporting to me. Plus the three guys looked like they were about to hook each other every couple casts.

Happy New Year to all!!
 
Dave, For myself that is not sporting at all either.To me that is a circus type of atmosphere(Only my opinion through my eyes),I guess for some people thats what they enjoy and is what makes them feel good, if thats the case than have a blast! It goes back to the old saying "to each his own".
Heres a good question though and correct me if I am wrong.In the summer time during the severe heat and drought isn't the water coming out of the spillway cooling only a small area of the stream?And the water above the spillway or say a mile below reaches temps as high as 80-85 degrees as it does in many other streams?
If thats the case than that in my eyes is absolutely unethical.Im sure it provides for some good fishing, BUT Your fishing a spring hole.The trout use that as a thermal refuge to survive!Its fishing in a barrel to fish that are struggling to survive.Again correct me if I am wrong in reference to the spillway being the only "cold water around DURING THE HOT SUMMER?
In ny on the beaverkill or the wilowemoc if your caught fishing the springholes when all the other areas of the river are to warm for the fiish to survive you get a kick in the a$$:D in a nice way and asked not do so(its not a law). The dec officers,flyshop owners and guys like me all participate in chasing away the perpetrators.
Just my 2 cents
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
 
Hey Joe i fished the Quest often in the summer and can say that about the water temp was cool way down past the end of the conservation area.I went about a mile and 1/2 downstream and the water temp was 65 but never went any further but have talked to other anglers who said that the water temp is still cool farther downstream.But i can say that you are correct about the water being in the 80's above the spillway!Just below the spillway it's about 53-56 in the summer.The hatchery water also keeps the Quest up a bit,in fact i have seen no major difference from the summer levels and the way it when i was last there.Don't get me wrong it might be up just a bit but if you compared it to other streams in the summer it was way up compared to the KLG in early fall.I asked a few regulars who have fished the river for years and they stated it wasn't really low like the Musky or S.Branch and they stated it was because of the hatchery out flow.Your comment about it being a Spring Hole and the Regs in NY protecting the fish can be a good idea here in Jersey if that was the only cool part of the river with out a doubt.From what i know fish holdover well on the river because of the hatchery flow and i'm pretty sure"from what i've heard" you can go 2 miles downstream or more and find cool water.Now about the whole "Circus" situation i can say in can be quite annoying!For instance while on the L.Lehigh yesterday i was by the hatchery were the workers building is fishing there for quite a while and then had 3 anglers come by and fish the area i was fishing,now since i was there i refused to leave because i believe i the first person fishing a spot has the right away to that area there for i have no reason to leave but these guys were a bit to set out to catch a fish and after having the cast and almost tangle up on me about 10 times i called it quites and found a spot to myself and did my thing!I like to have piece when i fish but don't mind if i'm fishing next to a guy or two or three as long as there not on top of me casting at the same fish especially if i know the guys!It's like you going out with the guys for a outting and enjoying yourself fishing and also talking about it.In that situation i take the talking part to my advantage because i love the sport want to learn more but i won't leave a spot because another angler or anglers have come in on me unless it gets to crazy like the L.Lehigh Special Regs Section but you have to keep that if you fish a popular stretch expect it be like that.Now what i'm still trying to figure out is the point of critizing the way someone may be fishing when you see them??Or better yet taking pictures calling people names??Joe i respect your opinion but have yet to see you post anything negative about this sport or anglers you've seen on the water and the same goes to you Dave.R but this would be a different situation if it were different.Now lets keep in mind the Jersey has Conservation AREAS not Miles and Miles of river were you can fish for Wild Trout and find them with out problems!I don't know about you guys but when i fish and actually want to catch fish not just practice my Mending,Casting,Knots and asking saying here fishy fishy to fish that aren't there!Now i'm not saying that you can't find a piece of water where you can fish with out being bothered but i am saying i will be where the fish are and i know they are!So Dave how'd you do?Any takers?
 
DaveR said:
Well - I made it to the Pequest yesterday. Thanks DaveB for the directions. Fished from 8:30am to about 1:30pm from the hatchery bridge downstream to the bridge at Pequest Furnace Rd. Water was 36 degrees - too cold for the fish - due to the snowmelt, but I got a chance to reconnoiter the area and will return when things warm up a bit.

Dennis - I see what you mean about the crazies at the hatchery outflow. I walked up to check it out and there were three guys 20 feet apart fishing the warm water flowing out of the hatchery. Looked like they had the fish corralled so they couldn't get away! I guess if you want to catch fish, it's the place to be, but just doesn't seem sporting to me. Plus the three guys looked like they were about to hook each other every couple casts.

Happy New Year to all!!
Click to expand...
Glad you made it ok.

Yeah, the arm to arm combat fishing is not for me. I prefer to fish a place like the Delaware because the fish are EVERYWHERE!!!! and not just concentrated in a couple of spots. When someone comes and fishes too close, depending on the mood I'm in I'll either ask, "Excuse me, am I in your way" or I'll just pack up and move somewhere else. It's a big river! When you're ready, we'll hook up and do that.
 
JOE.T said:
Dave, For myself that is not sporting at all either.To me that is a circus type of atmosphere(Only my opinion through my eyes),I guess for some people thats what they enjoy and is what makes them feel good, if thats the case than have a blast! It goes back to the old saying "to each his own".
Heres a good question though and correct me if I am wrong.In the summer time during the severe heat and drought isn't the water coming out of the spillway cooling only a small area of the stream?And the water above the spillway or say a mile below reaches temps as high as 80-85 degrees as it does in many other streams?
If thats the case than that in my eyes is absolutely unethical.Im sure it provides for some good fishing, BUT Your fishing a spring hole.The trout use that as a thermal refuge to survive!Its fishing in a barrel to fish that are struggling to survive.Again correct me if I am wrong in reference to the spillway being the only "cold water around DURING THE HOT SUMMER?
In ny on the beaverkill or the wilowemoc if your caught fishing the springholes when all the other areas of the river are to warm for the fiish to survive you get a kick in the a$$:D in a nice way and asked not do so(its not a law). The dec officers,flyshop owners and guys like me all participate in chasing away the perpetrators.
Just my 2 cents
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Click to expand...
Right on Joe. Without fail while in Roscoe, I'll drop by Catskillflies to get an up to the hour reading. If the water is too hot or has been too hot, I'll just travel an extra 20 minutes to the Mainstem or something. It's good that we have people like Dennis from the shop who actually "patrols" the river and makes anglers aware of the heat situations when there is one.

A stretch like the Pequest from the hatchery run-off probably keeps the water nice and cool, like nympher said. My only problem is that there are so many people catching these fish over and over and over and over again that they don't give the trout a chance to breath. When anglers are stacked up ontop of each other, the fish are under tremendous pressure. Holdovers are probably very unlikely in an area like this because of the high pressure even this time of the year. Why the large trout in this area? Simple explanation is that it's a hatchery run-off and breeders are released on occasion.

Now being that I'm a C&R guy, I'm curious to know if taking fish from this area of the Pequest is legal or not. Is it 1 over 15? If so, I think that's great. As a matter of fact, they should make it more than 1. The chance of these things surviving are in my opinion slim to none. Then again, Trout are game fish and are there for just that.
 
Nympher/Dennis

Hey nympher thanks for the input.Maybe you can answer a question with regards to the outflow into the main river.What is the cfs of water being displaced into the main river?Is it a large volume of water?

I am curious because on the beaverkill in ny the hortons brook (the largest on the beaverkill) flows into the main river and only cools the river maybe a 1/4 mile down stream.I guess the outflow on the pequest must be pretty big?

Nympher,Since you enjoy the different aspects of flyfishing such as fishing to large wild fish, knowing where they are,have no crowds your going to have to finally take a trip to the catskills with some of us.(In the spring?)I think someone like yourself would find a river like the west branch exciting and challenging to say the least.

I think you should have no problem figuring out what exactly the fish are eating, match the hatch and have great sucsess doing it.Hey you can even practice your mends and casting and catch fish at the same time!
Hey mike let me know when your ready to take a trip to the "holy waters" of the catskills,You will never forget it!
:) Happy New Year!:D :D :D

Hey Dennis, As you know I am with you 100% with fishing the catskills where you have tremendous fish pops and you dont have to stand on top of each other trying to hook a fish in a barrel like the spillways at the pequest and little lehigh.Thats no fun and no challenge(for me).Dont get me wrong I have tried it and done it but it aint my cup of tea.
You are right about the large fish at the pequest,They are simply big breeders.I also think you are correct about the survival rates of these fish being low.Happy new year! Gotta run.:)
 
Hey Joe i'm not sure about the cfs of the water coming out but it is high.I'll check it out and report it back!I haven't been up to the Catskills and know from reports that water temp in the summer are in the 50's!But i can say that the Quest temps are low pretty far down.From what i know the outflow is from wells under the hatchery"or at least i hear"that pumps in to the hatchery and it's ponds and then into the river.I don't want to stay the cfs are this and not know but from the well water being used for the hatchery and it's ponds and it being good enough to keep these waters cool it has to be a good volume!I know a guy who fished on of the ponds in the summer after a Fly Fishing Class and he stated the water is in the high 50's and it was a 90 degree day.But i can say that i think the Special Regs Areas in pa will be out of the question of me fishing them due to the need for guys to get on top of you just to catch a fish!My opinion of fishing is not to crowd a guy because he may be on some fish but istead move to a area to fish and have it to me.I think i will be asking"Am i in your way"cause i almost flipped when i would cast and then they would cast and layout about a 1/2 inch from my line and i actually had to recast cause of the situation!Now i can say that the Legigh hehigh is more than a circus and the reason why i am is because of the drive that makes people not think twice about hawking you and not having the common courtesy to say hey he fishing there and about 30-50 feet upstream it's clear so i go up there!some of these guys are really out to rudely fish!But enough with the negative talk but i want to fish the Catskills but afraid of the new profound love for the place!I read about the Mainstem,West and East branches of the Delaware and hear to many great stories but i was wondering what is the amount of fish per square mile?
 
I agree...the outflow is a madhouse. I, for one, would love to do a trip up to the West Branch or other Catskill river.

-BC
 
Unregistered

No problem,when the spring rolls around just post that you would like to take a trip up to the catskills and you will be more than accomadated by some peole on this board!:)
 
Sorry I missed all the conversation. I've been out of the loop due to some fun New Year's activities! Hope you all had a safe and happy New Year.

I agree with JoeT that fishing the outflow in the summer is a bit unethical, but to Nympher's point, each to his own I guess. As long as it's not illegal, I won't stop anyone else, but I'll definitely go somewhere else. I would like to fish the UD/Catskill system this year and hope to hook up with some of the folks on the board to fish and make some new friends. My fly-tying class starts on Tuesday so who knows, I might even be able to contribute to one of the swaps sometime soon.

Until then, we get to dream of warmer days. Glad we're getting all this rain and snow...it will help alot when springtime comes.
 
Hey Dave,Just give a holler in the spring when you want to head up to the catskills!

Have fun with your class and once you get the "hang" just keep tying,that will sharpen your skills quickly.
 
Nympher

Hey Nympher,thanks againg for the info!:)


As far as fish per mile I really have no clue and not sure if anyone does at the moment! There are various numbers "floating around" But I would rather not guess.I can tell you this much though there are more than enough wild and stocked fish(depends on river) for you and everyone to go around! Dunt you worry you will have plenty of fish to work. :eek:
 
Be Careful - the Catskills can be a very addicting place! :)

I started hitting the Beaverkill / Willowemoc in the mid-80s and haven't bought a NJ license since! It was only last year (err...2001) that I picked up a PA license.

Heck, I was shocked to see the fly shop on the Little Lehigh this past year. It wasn't there last time I fished it! I asked the owner when he set up shop and he looked at me kinda funny and said "about 10 years ago." Wow, I hadn't realized it had been that long.

Here's some things a Catksill Junkie has to look forward to:

* Middle of night runs (4.5 hours for me) to get up there, fish the day, and then drive back. That usually works out to 9 hours driving to 9 - 12 hours of fishing.

* Leaving work early on weekends more times than you should to try and catch the evening hatches on Friday eve and then fish the weekend

* Constant need to hear water conditions (either web-based or via the West Branch Angler hot line)

* Motels with one satellite channel controlled by the owner's son. Weird thing is usually their channel surfing habits are pretty close to mine!

* Bald Eagles, beavers, and assorted wildlife

* Some really prolific hatches (my fave is the Green Drake and accompanying BIG caddis)

* Buying / tying fly patterns that you'll only use once or twice out of a year (aka Green Drake)

* Disappointing days due to weather or flow conditions.

* Unbelievable days days due to terrific fishing action.

* Lots o' big, wild browns and rainbows

Woops, I'm rantin' and ravein' here. I can't wait for 2nd week in May. Each year, friends and I get a cabin on the East Branch that overlooks Hancock and we spend a week up there.

I'll post the board when the time comes and will gladly hook up with folks on this board to either show new visitors where things are happening, or to learn from the pros like Joe T.

Happy New Year!


Shawn
 
Shawn,
I think I am headed into your footsteps. I am not getting a Jersey license this year either. I too have about a 4 hour drive from south Jersey and probably at 2 hours to get to any decent trout streams. I will be fishing New York and PA this year. I am still waiting for one of those terrific days in the catskills though.
 
Shawn,yes the catskills are very much addicting! It gets into your blood.We should try and hook up sometime this spring,Just let me know?
I will be "living" on the neversink in the evenings during the week since I am know only a 1/2 hour from there,and also fish the wilo,wb,eb and main stem quite often,And a few others.
Shawn I do not consider myself a pro, only a person who strives to be,and thats only because of my passion for the sport and that I have a carreer in which I have the time to fish a lot. Oh yeah and A wonderful understanding wife!But thanks for the compliment:)



Jason,you hit the catskills during a drought and much later into the season and Oh lets not forget that snowy day as well.I promise you some serious "action" this coming sprng! And you to will hooked for life.:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Hi Guys,
With regards to the regs on the Pequest Conservation stretch, it is artificials only, 1 fish 15 inches or better per day. As to the issue of holdover, those fish do indeed survive, at least until opening day in April when standard regs go back into effect. From then until the week prior to the last spring stocking it's open fishing with a 6 fish bag limit.
As for the matter of thermal protection from the hatchery outflow, the stream stays quite cool for a great distance downstream as mentioned by Nympher, and fish are spread throughout the conservation stretch though not in as great numbers as found near the outfall. The cooler temps are aided by a good deal of ground water input through the conservation stretch and beyond.
In my opinion this stretch of the Pequest should be made a Year-Round Conservation water. I think that would greatly improve the fishing by allowing for long term holdover, particularly in the downstream areas that don't see nearly the pressure that the outfall area recieves.
Unknown to many, the lower areas hold a fair number of fish with many of them being good sized. It's not at all uncommon to find 20+ inch browns down there in August. The best thing is that these fish don't get pressured like those above and so are very wary and wily.

To Dave R, glad you made it up there and got a chance to explore a bit. The next tip I would offer you is to begin exploring some of the areas near the upper end of the Great Meadows on the upper portions of the Pequest. Much groundwater influx up there serves to keep the stream cool in the summer and relatively warm and ice free in the winter. Check the areas from just below Rt 80 to well above 80. Good Luck!
 
Dave,thanks for the info,you answered my question.I always wondered how and if it stayed so cool down stream.
With the cooler waters down stream from the outflow I can see how there is a holdover population.
 
Hey Joe here's what Agust said on Njtrout in referring to the hatchery flow cfs"The number I hear is 750 gallons per minute, outflow from the hatchery. No clue how many CFS that is. There are a number of natural springs in the Pequest that provide cool spots all the way to Belvidere".Again this cannot be confirmed but i will call the Hatchery today and talk to someone there and see if they can answer this question,but if the answer is 750 gallons of water per minute that's alot of cool water that provides the stream with good holdover pops and fishing!!I hear of a few springs in the KLG but have never found them myself!I know a regular who this the KLG often and has been for years stated that he was walking by the big pool at the N.end of the gorge and saw about 20-40 schooled up by the tree and said that it had to be springs there for them to be bunched up like that.But i talked to a few guys who dismissed the idea of springs being there and said that there's some farther upstream that they know of!
 
I still stand strong on my opinion about holdovers, but let me re-iterate.

First, I find it to be impossible for any fish in the 1/4 mile stretch at the Pequest to be able to hold-over for any meaningful period of time. You've seen the photo I posted not so long ago. From the river reports I read quite often on the Pequest, this is an almost everyday thing. Even if it's not an everyday thing, it happens often enough that the fish are under such pressure from the fishing that they cannot live long.

A few more factors now come into play.

During the hot months, the trout in the lower part of the river will swim up to the cooler water (where you will find the majority of fishermen). These fish will fight for their river space. Quite a few will die due to exhaustion, and that's where the survival of the fittest kicks in.

It's not like these fish are tough to catch either, at least I've found that they are not selective at all, and they have eaten anything I've through at them. I remind you, this is the 1/4 mile stretch I'm talking about and does not apply to the rest of the river only because I'm not familiar with the rest of the river.

Now, are there holdovers in the Pequest? I don't doubt it but, knowing something about trout tells me that holdovers are far and few.

How long can these breeders last? The hatchery releases them because they feel they're just about expired. I think Dave B. answered the question the best, "at least until opening day in April." I think that's pretty accurate.

I think the only thing that keeps these fish alive is the cool water flow coming out of the hatchery.

All in all, I'll have to admit that once in a while the Pequest can be a fun place to go. It's a sure shot, and worth the trip if you cannot make it to PA or NY State.
 
I just got off the phone with Pequest Hatchery and they stated that the flows are different from time to time.Sept-april it releases 4000 gallons per min and from med april to early sept it releases 7000 gallons per min.
 
I agree with you to a certain point Dennis!Fish can be selective at times esspecially by the hatchery!As for them holding over you'd be suprized how many fish are down stream!Now i think if the fish move upstream it's not because of the water temp because i think 65-68 is perfect for them,i think if they go upstream it's for the ph levels!Since you have that good ph level up by the spillway i keep hearing that the fish tune into it and come upstream!Talking about holdovers i can say that it needs to be turned into a No Kill Year Round Conservation Area and the CO'S need to patrol it more for those poachers!No with all the pressure and from them being caught all the time and handle wrongly i can say i have seen alot of dead fish there.
 
Dennis, I agree with you in that the fish in that first 1/4 mile stretch get hammered hard. I will further agree that SOME fish do move up closer to the outfall area as the water warms below. BUT, personal observations have shown me that 1; most of those that move up are 'bows and 2; plenty of fish remain in the lower areas, mainly browns with some 'bows and a few brooks mixed in. Remember the conservation stretch is about 1 mile long and only the upper few hundred yards get hit very hard in summer. Case in point. even with last years severe conditions I still had little difficulty finding fish throughout the conservation stretch, all the way to the lower limit of it. Granted they weren't as numorous as in other years, but they were there none the less. Also much of the lower half of the conservation stretch is overlooked by the spincasters in the spring since they know about the congregation of fish up above and seem to focus their efforts there. Perhaps this summer we can hook up for a few hours on the lower section so you can see first hand what I mean. I also have a few spots on the Paulinskill I'ld like to show you if your interested. Two spots in particular are perrenial holdover rainbow areas where the fish act nearly the same as the wild 'bows on the WBD as far as subtle surface takes, sudden unexpected sub-surface takes, and either of which followed by fast powerful initial runs. Of course these fish can't compare in size to those of the WBD, but they average 13-15 inches with several 17-20+ inchers usually lurking about.
I know it's alot to ask for you to give up a potential day in the Catskills <L>, but I thought perhaps I could give you a couple of "quick trip" alternative spots fairly close to home for those times when you only have a couple of hours to utilize.:)
 
Dave about 1/2 mile downstream there are some big holes with lost of fish in them including a few big fish!I talked to a fellow who posted a post here and stated that a buddy of his took a big brookie in a pool about where i was 1/2 mile down!There are lots of brookies like you stated and a few big bows and i seen the biggest brown i have ever seen in the Pequest downstream!Couldn't get him to bite but did get a 18 inch bow out the same hole and a few small bows,brookies and browns too!I went down to Pequest Furnace road and checkout the a few spots and there are some nice holes down there to and heard some good things about that area,taking Dennis will be a fun fishing outting!I never fished the Pualinskill but heard it's like a swamp!I heard good and bad things about the area but having been looking foward to fishing that stretch!
 
:) Nympher, your review of the lower areas is dead on! Though I'm not a big fan of the Pequest overall, the Conservation stretch is nice water and I truly think it could benefit from year-round special regs.
As for the Paulinskill, the section you're referring to is the conservation stretch on the E branch. The areas I'm referring to are MILES downstream from there. No swampiness to deal with and it's a much larger stream, as you might imagine, averaging 30-40 feet across. Knowing your stream ethics from your postings, I'ld have no qualms showing you a few 'honey holes' where you could catch fish all summer long, water temps permitting of course. The fish are there, but we all know proper etiquette for stress levels from C&R during hot times.
 
Hi Dave,

I wouldn't mind trying out one of those "honey holes"! When you get some spare time, let me know, maybe we can hook up. :)
 
:cool:
Hey, no problem guys! I have both of your e-mails. Once the spring madness is done and the streams begin to settle down I'll DEFINITELY be in touch. Hopefully we'll get some time astream together before then though, hey?
BTW Dennis, how'd you make out with that situation at the house? OK I hope?
 
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