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NJ Steelhead?
- Thread starter pduane44
- Start date
Wbranch
New member
" 25 inches approximately and fat"
I just happened to see this thread and agree with compara-dun - that trout is no where near 22" let alone 25". Did you really put a tape on the fish and measure it or are you guesstimating it's length? It's a decent fish, maybe 18", if we stretch the heck out of it 19".
The smaller of the two rainbows is 19" long and the larger about 27". Your pic looks smaller than the 19".
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coolkyle
De nalgas!
Shannon's has private water on the South Branch? That's kinda weird.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
How so? Lots of fly shops around the country have private water. We lease water owned by the Raritan Inn B&B which is nearly a mile long. Shannon's runs a private club and allows limited guide trips on the water there. We restored that water last summer and it fishes great and holds over its fish year round - both wild and stocked.
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Although I am well aware private stream water exists all over, I find the concept weird as well.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Private water? Fly shop private water? Read: An Entirely Synthetic Fish by Anders Halverson. He delves into how and why private trout waters sprang up all over the country, including here in the East. Good read. Lots of private clubs in NJ, NY, PA, etc. When I'm fishing, I prefer to fish open public water for wild trout, but there is certainly a place for private water. Look at the # 1 fly shop in the country, The Fly Shop in Redding, CA. It has tons of private water. Just one of many examples of where fly shops have private water. As for clubs owning or leasing water, they are too many to list just in our area alone.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Well people think you are weird. Not me personally but others for sure.
FIN-ITE 34
Well-known member
Does Shannon's stock steelhead? That would explain the winter run of steelhead I see upstream from that stretch, looking down off the Middle Valley Road bridge (if there was a bridge)..........weird huh?
Lonewolve
New member
you could always keep some eggs from a hen in ny then catch a buck stelhead an milt it onto the egggs keep the eggs with a live well bubbler an bring em home put into lil plastic strawberry crates an bury into some gravel in a run an wait an see...bucket biology at its best.........just kidding dont do this at home you can get in trouble
Wbranch
New member
Is that like the run of steelhead on the upper Wanaque?
coolkyle
De nalgas!
Well you won't find me making the drive to Califon anytime soon. I have all the river I can ever fish in a lifetime and NONE of it is off-limits to me or you. That's the way it's supposed to be.
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
TT sees it this way, if I don't own the air space above the property I own, why should someone own the transient water above the property they own and the right to the transient wildlife that may be found there as well. And what particularly chapps my ass is when public money is used to repair private property that I can't use.
I get the whole private water issue and private water bothers me not. I do however think the Raritan Inn is not doing this well. I looked into booking a room for the weekend for the Mrs and me. When I understood that river access is extra and a guide is required, I decided to look elsewhere. If I was running the Inn, access would be included in the already expensive stay. The Beaverkill Valley Inn provides access to a mile of private water while a guest at the Inn. I think Skytop does the same thing. A guided trip with Rusty would likely be fun though.
I know everyone was concerned about my thought on the issue.
I know everyone was concerned about my thought on the issue.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Good points, but the state owns the water as well as the fish and game, regardless of who stocked fish or game onto a private property. That doesn't mean the public has access to fish and game on private lands, it only means that the state alone regulates the taking of the game. As for Farm Bill dollars currently being earmarked only for private lands, you can thank your Congressmen for that snafu. We like to see those funds closer to 40% public and 60% private like most past Farm Bills had in them. Since everything in Washington DC is on a continuing resolution with regard to these large funding bills, I don't see the current situation changing anytime soon. I was on Capital Hill all day yesterday lobbying members of Congress from both sides and they all agreed. Lastly, while I understand that some are upset that public funds via grants like we obtain from US Fish & Wildlife Service, NFWF, or Farm Bill funds get used on private properties, when we do these restoration projects, they positively impact those rivers and streams downstream as well. They improve the overall health of the river, and often that carries over to public lands outside of the private lands. Since far more lands along our rivers are privately owned than publicly owned, it makes sense that a lot of projects are going to occur on private lands, some of which the public cannot access. But that doesn't mean the public gets no benefits from the project.
dcabarle
Administrator
"This grants professionally guided access to 4300' of stocked private waters with six identifiable fishing "beats."
That's from the Inn's website.
If someone wants a guide they should have the option to book a guide but to force someone to use a guide to fish a BEAT for STOCKED fish??? Not for me. Even if it was a wild fishery with no beats, you still shouldn't be forced to hire a guide (just an opinion). This is like going to an expensive restaurant and ordering a $65.00 steak and the waiter telling you, "You can't have the steak unless you purchase the broccoli and, you have to pay me extra to hold the fork for you."
That's from the Inn's website.
If someone wants a guide they should have the option to book a guide but to force someone to use a guide to fish a BEAT for STOCKED fish??? Not for me. Even if it was a wild fishery with no beats, you still shouldn't be forced to hire a guide (just an opinion). This is like going to an expensive restaurant and ordering a $65.00 steak and the waiter telling you, "You can't have the steak unless you purchase the broccoli and, you have to pay me extra to hold the fork for you."
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DEnnis,
The rooms at the Inn are $160-$280 a night in the spring. Guided trips on that 4800' are:
Half Day: $205.00 per one person half day $355.00 for Two or $505.00 for three. We strongly recommend one guide per three people at minimum.
Full Day: $280.00 for 7.5 hours. $430.00 for Two or $580.00 for Three people
I think a full day trip for three is in order. We won't get sick of the same beats.
The rooms at the Inn are $160-$280 a night in the spring. Guided trips on that 4800' are:
Half Day: $205.00 per one person half day $355.00 for Two or $505.00 for three. We strongly recommend one guide per three people at minimum.
Full Day: $280.00 for 7.5 hours. $430.00 for Two or $580.00 for Three people
I think a full day trip for three is in order. We won't get sick of the same beats.
Johnny Utah
You're no daisy
They stock slobs in the pequest and you can fish that for free, 
I have fished the inn and while its nice water, I really didnt care for it, I think the s.b.r. has better stretches, and they are public.
I have fished the inn and while its nice water, I really didnt care for it, I think the s.b.r. has better stretches, and they are public.
dcabarle
Administrator
Does the Inn feed you for that price! WOW! Well... I guess we see the clientele they're after!
As far as the guide rates... I'm friendly with a few NJ guides and hate to step on toes so I'll try to word this nicely.
Look. To be a guide in NJ, what is required is that you put on your guide cap and pronounce yourself as a guide. There are no certifications required, no insurance regulations that I'm aware of (though you would be foolish to guide without some type of insurance), no nothing. Anyone who wants to be a guide in NJ can be a guide. Read Matt Groberts book and you can guide the rich people looking for that 22" stocked hog. As long as you sound like you know what you're doing, they won't question you and they won't know the difference.
Now as far as the rates... I'm not going to question the knowledge of guys like Brian Cowden or John Collins, They're both more than qualified but there is no overhead for a guide in NJ.
$400.00 for a full 8hr day of fly fishing really isn't that bad. That's not the case here though. We're talking $430.00/ for 7.5hrs. Tips are customary. I assume that's not factored into the $430.00. Now what really gets me is that the guides probably don't even get to keep that full amount. Book through the shop or through the Inn and they're going to see a cut of that cash.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
For the record, I take no offense to any of the posts. Nobody is forcing anyone to fish the private water. We get more public water guide trips than we do private water trips, but both remain very popular for different reasons. Our guides are fully insured through the shop. The Inn and Shannon's are two different businesses. The Inn does a good wedding business as well as corporate retreats and traditional B&B stays. As far as NJ guides not "being certified", neither are PA or NY guides. They just get to pay a fee (tax) to hang out their shingles. Surprising that NJ doesn't force the same on us here, but paying a fee doesn't make a good guide. It just makes a poor guide
FIN-ITE 34
Well-known member
Used to fish that stretch back in the day of the River Styx Inn.
dcabarle
Administrator
For the record, I take no offense to any of the posts. Nobody is forcing anyone to fish the private water. We get more public water guide trips than we do private water trips, but both remain very popular for different reasons. Our guides are fully insured through the shop. The Inn and Shannon's are two different businesses. The Inn does a good wedding business as well as corporate retreats and traditional B&B stays. As far as NJ guides not "being certified", neither are PA or NY guides. They just get to pay a fee (tax) to hang out their shingles. Surprising that NJ doesn't force the same on us here, but paying a fee doesn't make a good guide. It just makes a poor guide
The insurance thing wasn't for you. I would have assumed that Shannon's, as a business, would have their guides and clients insured. Let's face it, there are people who guide that are not part of a business. I'd be interested in knowing if these guides not guiding through a shop actually do have insurance.
Also, it's not necessarily the fee... Shit... F the fee. NY does make you take a test and you have to be certified in CPR which isn't such a bad idea. Of course a test doesn't necessarily make you a good guide or a bad guide but it does lend some credibility. I don't think you should be charged a fee to be a guide, that's just ridiculous.
Trout Nazi
And...Boom goes the dynamite.
With that fee, you're paying for the privledge of fishing private water. I think paying a guide up on the D $395 for a day on a boat, lunch, and fishing for wild fish until way, way after dark (not 7.5hrs) is a much better use of your money.
All you upper D guides can now send me my vig, or a free trip, for this unsolicited endorsement.
All you upper D guides can now send me my vig, or a free trip, for this unsolicited endorsement.
dcabarle
Administrator
This is one of the points I wanted to make but left it out. Cost of the boat, launch ramp fees, gas, shuttle, cost of CPR class, guide license test, etc... It's just more money out of pocket for a guy with a boat + if that guide is working through a shop, they get even less cash... So I guess this is why I don't understand where the $430.00 fee comes from. Just doesn't seem realistic but if people are paying it, more power to you...
Also if you're fishing the D, your fishing for mostly wild fish which don't feel like you're hauling in car tires. Anyone who fishes the D know's a 14" bow makes a 22" pequest fish feel like a chub.
The NJ and Poconos guide business seems much different than the Catskill business IMHO. A trip on the Upper Delaware system usually requires an overnight stay for most clients. NJ/Pocono guiding seems to be more focused on well-off, busy, NYC metropolitan area people that just want to head out for a day and go fishing and then get home at a reasonable hour; the Catskills is more for people who want to make a weekend or a few day trip of it. Same with the Centre Co PA limestoners - it is a weekend or multiday trip for most people.
There are plenty of people that like to fly fish, but really aren't self sufficient. That is one market for guides. It may be a market many of us "fish heads" don't fully understand, but those fishermen are out there.
There are plenty of people that like to fly fish, but really aren't self sufficient. That is one market for guides. It may be a market many of us "fish heads" don't fully understand, but those fishermen are out there.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Not everyone can take the time to drive up there. You have to factor in gas, tolls, overnight stay (for some, not all). Private water gives certain anglers a nice, close trip with the chance to catch many large fish that are multi-year holdovers and fight well compared to freshly stocked state fish or smaller wild trout. It's not for everyone, and it wouldn't be for me personally, but many do like this opportunity. Also, I give my clients far more than 7.5 hours on the water. Guides will tell you that you earn your tip in the time extended beyond the normal trip hours.
Look at it this way, less folks crammed into the KL Gorge
Trout Nazi
And...Boom goes the dynamite.
Not everyone can take the time to drive up there. You have to factor in gas, tolls, overnight stay (for some, not all). Private water gives certain anglers a nice, close trip with the chance to catch many large fish that are multi-year holdovers and fight well compared to freshly stocked state fish or smaller wild trout. It's not for everyone, and it wouldn't be for me personally, but many do like this opportunity. Also, I give my clients far more than 7.5 hours on the water. Guides will tell you that you earn your tip in the time extended beyond the normal trip hours.
Look at it this way, less folks crammed into the KL Gorge
If you can afford to fish private water and stay in an over-priced hotel, you can afford gas an tolls to drive to Hancock. And pull your tampons out and do 1-day trips like me. You just need to pull over every 15 minutes on the way home and do jumping jacks, in a deparate attempt to stay awake after 14hrs of wading of floating, and not drive off a 50ft drop into the drink.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
TN,
When I want a day of fishing, I drive up and back to the upper Delaware and I wade it. Window down on the ride home with a large, black coffee from the Hancock McDonald's. But a day on the water on the upper D for those that hire a guide is $395. If you bring a buddy, you pay half that. If no buddy, you cover that entire cost. Our private water is $280/person, so a single person not fishing with someone else can save a few bucks and doesn't have to add 4 or 5 hours in drive time. Again, private water is not for everyone and that is fine. But there are a lot of anglers more than happy to fish private waters or to join private clubs and fish private waters. I know of not one single NJ private club without a significant waiting list, so the demand is much higher than you might think. Even when I could afford those clubs before working for TU, I was not interested. But I see their benefits to some anglers. The great thing about our sport is that it is not one-size-fits-all. To each his own.
When I want a day of fishing, I drive up and back to the upper Delaware and I wade it. Window down on the ride home with a large, black coffee from the Hancock McDonald's. But a day on the water on the upper D for those that hire a guide is $395. If you bring a buddy, you pay half that. If no buddy, you cover that entire cost. Our private water is $280/person, so a single person not fishing with someone else can save a few bucks and doesn't have to add 4 or 5 hours in drive time. Again, private water is not for everyone and that is fine. But there are a lot of anglers more than happy to fish private waters or to join private clubs and fish private waters. I know of not one single NJ private club without a significant waiting list, so the demand is much higher than you might think. Even when I could afford those clubs before working for TU, I was not interested. But I see their benefits to some anglers. The great thing about our sport is that it is not one-size-fits-all. To each his own.
dcabarle
Administrator
The funny thing is... I do pull over every 15 minutes on the way home and do jumping jacks, followed by a nap... Normally don't get home until 6am on Sunday morning giving me just enough time for a 1/2 hour nap and to get my hockey stuff ready 7:30!
Anyhow... I'm kinda disappointed I participated in this thread. I actually think the good people looking for a nice place to stay should give their money to this place. It will keep more people off the shitty rivers like the D. It is a long drive and very costly in Gas as Rusty mentioned. Shame on me and I apologize.
