Felt Sole Waders

[blue dun]

I have heard somewhere there is talk of a ban on felt sole waders. This because the felt soles are believed to transfer "rock snot" and other undesirable plants from one stream to another.

I tried fishing yesterday with my non felt sole wading shoes. I was at the "mud hole" in the Blewett tract of the Flatbrook. That is generally an easy wade. Once I got downstream to where the bottom was a little rocky I was slipping and sliding.

Does anyone know if this ban is going to happen? Are the felt soles really that much of a problem transporting undesirable organisms from one stream to another? Does anyone have a suggestion for non felt soles that will not slip and slide on mossy rocks?

I have heard of people washing waders with bleach after use. I think that would destroy the shoe part pretty quick.

 

[Andy B]

blue dun:

Alaska has banned felt soles. Honestly there is more to it then felt soles that is spreading this problem. Your fly can spread it, your fly line can spread it, your catch and release net can spread it, even your wading staff if not cleaned off can spread it. Not just waders and shoes. Yes there are safe ways to clean your shoes and waders with out harming them. Now far are wading shoes I do plan to go rubber with the metal studs that they sale today. These studs should be of the kind that you can replace when they break or wear out. Make sure to ask that question when choosing a new pair of wading shoes. Lastly I also highly reccomend the use of a wading staff for help you moving around stream. I have been using Folstaff for the past three years and love it. Rubber shoes with studs will not allow you to walk around safely all the time and the use of the staff will aid in wading and manuvering safely.

 

[blue dun]

Yes I already use a staff for support.

I was thinking about getting a pair of Corkers for jetty fishing in the surf. Corkers are steel studed sandles that go over wading shoes. I don't see why I couldn use them for trout fishing also.

Do you know if the NJDFW is planning on outlawing felt?

 

[BRK TRT]

As Andy pointed out many things can transport undesireables from place to place.

Why felt soles are taking such a big hit is a mystery to me.

I plan on using them always.


Brk Trt

 

[gadfly]

Yes, almost anything could spread rock snot, but most items are easy to clean. Felts are very hard to clean and the perfect vector for Dydimo and other invasives. Rubber boots are fine if you use them with studs. I use the Chotas with the replaceable studs.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

 

[Stonefly]

I have two pairs of LL Bean Aqua Boots, one with carbon studs and one without. The pair without studs is now to small, right leg and foot damaged from a blood clot. They are a size 11 and in very good shape.
Rusty Spinner borrowed them lst week. Willing to sell for $50.00 so I can get a new pair in size 12

 

[LyNcH]

I have a pair of korkers and love them. I used the mossy rock carbide tip soles, they don't slip for anything & the tips are replaceable(use loctite) I use them over my studded felt boots without question. Korkers run very small, go 2 sizes up from you normal shoe size.

 

[redietz]

As Andy pointed out many things can transport undesireables from place to place.

Why felt soles are taking such a big hit is a mystery to me.

That argument is analogous to saying "you can get AIDS from a transfusion, so there's no point in avoiding unprotected sex." Just because it's possible in rare circumstances to spread something in one manner, doesn't mean you should protect against the far more likely possibilities.

The reason felts are taking such a hit is because they're the most likely vector. There's mounting epidemiological evidence that this is true.

Drying completely kills didymo. Your line, flies, the uppers of your waders, etc, are easily cleaned and easily dried. Not so felt soles. They're near impossible to clean completely, and they stay moist enough to keep didymo alive for ten days or more.

I've relegated my felts to streams that are already heavily didymo infected -- I fish one regularly. I bought a pair of studded rubber soles for other streams (and clean them when I get home.) I now hate to use the felts - they're far slipperier than the studded rubber.

 

[skipper3245]

New simms vibram soles are amazing. Ive tried the other new rubber soles that dan bailey put out and they are crap. along with patagonia. I got a sample pair of the guide boot and could not be happier.

 

[Vance]

Blue Dun, I use corkers over my waders I love them but the only thing is that they are heavy. I got my corkers at Cabelas 2 years ago. I will be taking them out to Montana with me in Sept. I was at LL Bean in Cherry Hill yesterday and saw some wading boots with studs in them I just may break down and buy stocking foot waders and the studded boots .. The studded shoes aren't cheap but if they work it is worth the price....Good Luck with your choices.....Vance

 

[Drossi]

I have a pair of the rubber sole wading shoes without the studs from LL Bean that I got last fall (I don't remember the name, I'll have to look at the box in my car). They aren't that much different from felts except in the fact that it does take a few minutes once your in the water for the soles to "activate", as in get tackier and provide better traction. Once that occurs they are fine. A staff helps a great deal in the transition period also. I'm sure the pairs with the studs are even better. I save my studded felts for the streams that are already documented as infected.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

All good replies. Most, if not all manufacturers have agreed to stop making felt soles so you will be forced into rubber soles at some point. I got 2 new pairs this year, both rubber bottoms and both now have studs. My Hardy boots are the better of the two for grip. They have the same grip as felt with studs. My Chota Rock Locks are terrifying without the studs and very slippery, but once you add the titanium studs, they are almost as sticky as the Hardys but even more comfortable. I swap them out if I am in infested waters one day and non-infested the next.

Didymo/rock snot and whirling disease are just two nasties that can live in damp felts for days, hence the need to move away from felts. I do not believe that NJ has any plans to ban felts at this time. I don't think our state is nearly enlightened enough for something like that.

 

[eddavidson9]

felts take the biggest hit because they are the toughest to clean and easiest to market around (companies can claim to be environmentally sensitive/progressive by making only rubber soled boots...there are still plenty of places for the nasties to hide that arent as easily solved from a design standpoint).

you can "make" your own removable-studded boots with screw-ins like the carbide studs simms makes or from simple sheet metal screws, tire stud screws, etc.; just make sure the point isnt poking through the sole or you'll pop a hole in your stockingfoot. i would be hesitant to use screws in bootfoots.

i have the studded aquastealth llbean boots; they grip like a mofo for a while but do eventally round off. may be able to sharpen them but i just added screws.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Vermont is banning the sale and use of felt starting in 2011, so I'll be buying a dedicated pair of shoes and leaving them up there.

I'm all for minimizing the spread of this stuff, so can we shoot all waterfowl on sight? Because you can't tell me that they don't spread this stuff either.

 

[BRK TRT]

Gloom and Doom.

Global Warming.........

H1N1 virus to kill millions world wide...........

Felt soles? Lets see...............



Brk Trt

 

[Trouser Trout]

Gloom and Doom.

Global Warming.........

H1N1 virus to kill millions world wide...........

Felt soles? Lets see...............



Brk Trt

Oh and you don't forget the pending "bird flu pandemic", we haven't heard about that crock of shit in a while. As far as the felt soles go, my opinion is for most guys like me who fish the same handful of streams I am posing no risk of transporting didymo if it isn't already prevelant in one of the streams I am fishing. If there was a top ten list of how didymo or any other undesireable are introduced to streams, felt soles would would not be on it. IMO

 

[tomfly]

This is just another way for the Politically Correct to undermine the freedom of choice. Felt soles are first then it will be our wading staff and nets are commentated, then it will be fly-line and flies are commentated. When will this crap end. I have been using felt since I was a kid and do not plan to change any time soon. If birds and beavers can go from stream to stream so can I.:down:

 

[skipper3245]

This is just another way for the Politically Correct to undermine the freedom of choice. Felt soles are first then it will be our wading staff and nets are commentated, then it will be fly-line and flies are commentated. When will this crap end. I have been using felt since I was a kid and do not plan to change any time soon. If birds and beavers can go from stream to stream so can I.:down:

I said the same exact thing when I first heard the news. But when you think about it, its the best thing you can do right now. I work at Simms and what these guys are doing is amazing. Discontinuing felt is not the entire problem, but it for sure is part of the problem. An issue like this cannot be resolved in one step. But if you try to eliminate as much of the cross contamination that you can, Id say that is pretty respectable.
When they were doing some research on the matter, you would not believe the amount of invasive chemicals and plants we found in felt. Simple solution is cleanstream vibram. Yes you are correct that other things that you wear can do the same thing, but right now felt is the step we are taking, and you will see in the next few years other products will change.

Plus, these new soles we are selling are much much better than felt, Im not sure why you would pick felt. Felt sucks in the snow and slips on the boat. I also find that they grip much better on freestone and are easy to clean.

 

[Trouser Trout]

I said the same exact thing when I first heard the news. But when you think about it, its the best thing you can do right now. I work at Simms and what these guys are doing is amazing. Discontinuing felt is not the entire problem, but it for sure is part of the problem. An issue like this cannot be resolved in one step. But if you try to eliminate as much of the cross contamination that you can, Id say that is pretty respectable.
When they were doing some research on the matter, you would not believe the amount of invasive chemicals and plants we found in felt. Simple solution is cleanstream vibram. Yes you are correct that other things that you wear can do the same thing, but right now felt is the step we are taking, and you will see in the next few years other products will change.

Plus, these new soles we are selling are much much better than felt, Im not sure why you would pick felt. Felt sucks in the snow and slips on the boat. I also find that they grip much better on freestone and are easy to clean.

"Felt sucks in the snow and slips on the boat". WTF..... I never wore waders on a boat, next time i'll make sure i bring them.

 

[skipper3245]

"Felt sucks in the snow and slips on the boat". WTF..... I never wore waders on a boat, next time i'll make sure i bring them.

not sure how you float, but I like to get out of the boat for a lot of my fishing. And during the winter I like to wear waders when its 10 degrees out.

 

[danme]

First off Rock Snot is killed by "BLEACH" if your going to fish a different stream Spray Bleach on your felts works wonders HMMMMMMM Go figure -- Problem solved

Whirling Disease can not be transported by FELT SOLES -- Whirling Disease is given to trout by "TUBIFLEX WORMS" Tubiflex Worms are very small worms that live is almost any wet enviroment especially Sewers -- Also Not all Tubiflex carry Whirling Disease Trout have been eating tubiflex worms since the begining of time -- There is no possible way to totally get rid of Whirling Disease. Alos "BLEACH" will kill Tubiflex Worms. Tubiflex Worms ARE NOT The Whirling Disease Parasite They are the Middle Carrier. Another thing to consider -- Not all trout get whirling disease -- There are trout that HAVE WHIRLING DISEASE but show No Ill Effect to it and live very Normal and Long Lives.

NOTE: This so called San Juan Worm everyone fishes is a pattern to directly immitate "TUBIFLEX WORMS"

Anyone interested in my research PM ME

Peace
Dan

 

[tomfly]

I said the same exact thing when I first heard the news. But when you think about it, its the best thing you can do right now. I work at Simms and what these guys are doing is amazing. Discontinuing felt is not the entire problem, but it for sure is part of the problem. An issue like this cannot be resolved in one step. But if you try to eliminate as much of the cross contamination that you can, Id say that is pretty respectable.
When they were doing some research on the matter, you would not believe the amount of invasive chemicals and plants we found in felt. Simple solution is cleanstream vibram. Yes you are correct that other things that you wear can do the same thing, but right now felt is the step we are taking, and you will see in the next few years other products will change.

Plus, these new soles we are selling are much much better than felt, Im not sure why you would pick felt. Felt sucks in the snow and slips on the boat. I also find that they grip much better on freestone and are easy to clean.

My whole point is that I have been using felt soles for 30 some odd years. Every stream in the world should be contaminatinatde. Every time this crap happens, we have to draw another line in the sand. Homey dont play that. If the the people at Simms ( I do love your products) Want to make a stand . Fight for eco freindly fertilizer, Pesticides that are enveiriomentally safe to aquatic insects and eliminate the use of road salt. I would be onboard in that fight. But do not play the "ROCK SNOT"crap with me. There are way bigger issues that relate to stream degradation that need to be addressed.

 

[blue dun]

That argument is analogous to saying "you can get AIDS from a transfusion, so there's no point in avoiding unprotected sex." Just because it's possible in rare circumstances to spread something in one manner, doesn't mean you should protect against the far more likely possibilities.

The reason felts are taking such a hit is because they're the most likely vector. There's mounting epidemiological evidence that this is true.

Drying completely kills didymo. Your line, flies, the uppers of your waders, etc, are easily cleaned and easily dried. Not so felt soles. They're near impossible to clean completely, and they stay moist enough to keep didymo alive for ten days or more.

I've relegated my felts to streams that are already heavily didymo infected -- I fish one regularly. I bought a pair of studded rubber soles for other streams (and clean them when I get home.) I now hate to use the felts - they're far slipperier than the studded rubber.

Which streams are considered heavily infected?

 

[skipper3245]

My whole point is that I have been using felt soles for 30 some odd years. Every stream in the world should be contaminatinatde. Every time this crap happens, we have to draw another line in the sand. Homey dont play that. If the the people at Simms ( I do love your products) Want to make a stand . Fight for eco freindly fertilizer, Pesticides that are enveiriomentally safe to aquatic insects and eliminate the use of road salt. I would be onboard in that fight. But do not play the "ROCK SNOT"crap with me. There are way bigger issues that relate to stream degradation that need to be addressed.

I agree with you. Our TU chapter actually brought this up at our last meeting. We have been fighting the ranchers with fertilizers, which is a HUGE problem. The main thing stopping any type of movement is that not enough people agree with you and I. I do not know many ranchers that give a crap about their irrigation influence on systems. All the issues have been addressed but there is only so much you can do. Its hard to make everyone happy.

 

[Ryan R]

My whole point is that I have been using felt soles for 30 some odd years. Every stream in the world should be contaminatinatde. Every time this crap happens, we have to draw another line in the sand. Homey dont play that. If the the people at Simms ( I do love your products) Want to make a stand . Fight for eco freindly fertilizer, Pesticides that are enveiriomentally safe to aquatic insects and eliminate the use of road salt. I would be onboard in that fight. But do not play the "ROCK SNOT"crap with me. There are way bigger issues that relate to stream degradation that need to be addressed.

So your solution as a responsible angler is to say the hell with doing something so simple like getting rid of felt soles and treating your boots/waders before using them in different watersheds until all of the other issues regarding stream degradation have been completely resolved?

In the last 30 years, have you ever been to New Zealand to flyfish? Because I believe they were one of the first destinations to report huge problems with didymo and were the first to really pro-actively seek to do something about it regarding banning felts and treating angler equipment in an effort to reduce something that was having a significant impact on many of their rivers health and fishing. At one time didymo was not nearly so widespread but with the increase in flyfishing's popularity and anglers trekking all over the world & back in pursuit of the sport certain river systems are becoming overrun by this rock snot. Urging anglers to simply treat equipment and encouraging the stop of the use of felt (and even banning it) is a simple and easy way to reduce a known threat. Why? Because most anglers and angling manufacturers want to do what is right and are immediately willing to do so, especially when the rubber soled boots that were developed are just as good as the felt when it comes to traction. It doesn't mean other problems are not being addressed. Many of these other issues are and have been addressed by a number of organizations, it's not like they are being ignored solely for the sake of getting rid of felt soles.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

So your solution as a responsible angler is to say the hell with doing something so simple like getting rid of felt soles and treating your boots/waders before using them in different watersheds until all of the other issues regarding stream degradation have been completely resolved?

In the last 30 years, have you ever been to New Zealand to flyfish? Because I believe they were one of the first destinations to report huge problems with didymo and were the first to really pro-actively seek to do something about it regarding banning felts and treating angler equipment in an effort to reduce something that was having a significant impact on many of their rivers health and fishing. At one time didymo was not nearly so widespread but with the increase in flyfishing's popularity and anglers trekking all over the world & back in pursuit of the sport certain river systems are becoming overrun by this rock snot. Urging anglers to simply treat equipment and encouraging the stop of the use of felt (and even banning it) is a simple and easy way to reduce a known threat. Why? Because most anglers and angling manufacturers want to what is right and are immediately willing to do so, especially when the rubber soled boots that were developed are just as good as the felt when it comes to traction. It doesn't mean other problems are not being addressed. Many of these other issues are and have been addressed by a number of organizations, it's not like they are being ignored solely for the sake of getting rid of felt soles.

Well said. I don't see, hear or read about any coldwater conservation organization that is saying "let's focus our efforts here on felt soles and forget about other pressing issues related to coldwater habitat". What I hear, read, see and do is to add one simple thing we anglers can do to benefit our coldwater resources we all love by reducing the spread of invasives. It's that simple. If you can be disciplined enough to use a bleach solution 100% of the time to clean your boots, more power to you! I use 2 pair of studded rubber boots and thoroughly dry at least one pair to use in rivers and streams outside the Musky watershed. They (boot uppers) dry overnight unless it's damp and still/no wind, and the rubber soles dry in minutes. I found the bleach solution to grow old quickly on my old pairs (2) of felts so I made the switch to rubber.

Nobody likes to deal with issues like rock snot, but nobody wanted to believe we could get AIDS or other STDs at one time either. Nowadays, you take precautions, that's all. Sorry for that analogy...