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=USGS Chart - Hale Eddy - West Branch - 5/30/13=
- Thread starter TR
- Start date
Rusty Spinner
Active member
NY City will never, and I repeat, never do the right thing for the river. Best we anglers can hope for is tiny, incremental changes to the flow plan by ramming science down their throats every chance we get. But it is foolish to think we'll suddenly see a quantum leap in flow regimes in our lifetimes. I give great kudos to all who are working towards that goal and used to be one of them on a small level in my TU grassroots days...
flyI4
Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
and we just ratified the FFMP for 1 more year (which is supposed to be a good thing since NYC wanted 3 years). What does it say about the plan if the best we can do is ratify a plan NYC is pushing and consider the victory(?) as being the length in time it will be in place. The west branch looks worse than it ever has this year ,but the fact that big 20'' fish are still caught there on a regular basis and more so than ever actually results in a lack of outrage at how the river looks/is managed. I preferred the yo-yo flows. The change in flows gave flushed the river out and moved the fish around. Now I have pet fish on the rock at norbord that I catch 3 times a year and KNOW its the same fish. Why move when the flow is the same, albeit barely floatable for 2 months of the year and I know I'll released. The FFMP has made the upper west a petting zoo of domesticated wild trout and we sacrifice a lower mainstem during the spring/boat congestion early season due to everyone leaving the wb(cant float)/ and all for the gain of a mere 500cfs that allows everyone to wade AND float the river when its the only game in town during june and july? Sorry, 500cfs isn't worth the problems it creates in april and may.
See you at the mens club in july
See you at the mens club in july
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Replace the old leaky valve at Cannonsville and problem nearly solved....:crap:
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
If NYC provided a void AND the rains failed to occur AND they had to drain Cannonsville to meet the targets, fisherfolk would be complaining about THAT situation in the late summer/fall...
It should be obvious to most, after years and years of wrangling, fishermen and fishing businessmen will NEVER be satisfied with ANY plan that NYC is willing to adopt in their quest to ensure water for their city and obligations to the river at Montague.
And let's not forget, NYC CREATED what we have NOW, even WITH what most consider a lack of consideration for trout.
It should be obvious to most, after years and years of wrangling, fishermen and fishing businessmen will NEVER be satisfied with ANY plan that NYC is willing to adopt in their quest to ensure water for their city and obligations to the river at Montague.
And let's not forget, NYC CREATED what we have NOW, even WITH what most consider a lack of consideration for trout.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Sad but true. TU has gotten a lot of heat over the years for "not dedicating significant staff time" toward this issue. I think we all know how popular the fishery is by our many, many East coast members, and they want to see the fishery protected and even enhanced. It is my own favorite place to fish - at least here in the East. The trouble is, it doesn't fit the model as FF points out. We have a artificial fishery in the form of tailwater dams that support two non-native trout species, whose flows are controlled largely by the 1954 US Supreme Court decision. FUDR has become a highly effective organization for this battle and they are aided by TU's grassroots support from PA, NY and NJ.
Perhaps the largest struggle is convincing NY City that today is not the first day of the drought of record for that watershed. Even in light of reduced water usage by the city, they will still over-protect their water quantities to ensure that 8 million (give or take) citizens and hundreds of thousands of businesses never run out of drinking water. Sometimes I hate being a realist:crap:
Rusty, your realism is well founded. Human managed systems will never keep fishermen happy - there are always other higher priorities like water or power. People always mention the fishery as worth $25 million or something like it. However, NYC's economy is about a trillion dollars, so no one is taking risks with that. As an aside, the Whippany River Action Committee brings me into contact with a lot of town engineers and they are super conservative about water reserves. The complaints on this board are nothing compared to what happens when a city or town runs short of drinking water.
BrownChickenBrownTrout
New member
After peak oil, water will be the next big "crisis". The NYC system has nothing to worry about compared to the southwest and south east.
Everybody's Friend
Liberal
Let's get some background here...
When NYC built its reservoirs in the Catskills, there were a series of Supreme Court cases designed to regulate water releases from the reservoirs and back into the Delaware River watershed...
Right?
And these releases are not primarily for the purposes of our trout fishery, but to prevent the leeching of salt from the ocean and in to New Jersey's water supply.
Right?
The water releases increase flows, and the increases in flow push back against salt water, again, in New Jersey's watersheds.
The trout fishery that resulted from litigation between New York and New Jersey is an incidental effect that probably wasn't ever considered by the Supreme Court.
Can anyone comment on this?
TR
"You can observe a lot just by watching." Y. Berra
moosekid
Handsomest Neff Member
Yaya drilling is a bitch. They're trying to mine nickel and copper near my cabin in northern MN. Copper-nickel mining divides Ely residents | Minnesota Public Radio News
Rusty Spinner
Active member
You have to ask yourself if NYC is now kicking themselves for making the two big dams tailwater releases instead of gated release. If they didn't make an artificial fishery, none of this would be an issue today. There are other methods of releasing water into a river system to meet downstream flow requirements. I'm sure glad they built them as tailwater releases, but someone in the big city back in the 40s and 50s screwed up in our favor.
The West is drier - but we are getting into trouble in the East. First, look at the battles for Delaware R and Apalachicola R water in wet places. Then, areas with wells in Washington Township (Morris Co.) and Mansfield Township have run dry lately in a region which gets 55 inches of rain a year. In Eastern Morris Co (Buried Valley Aquifer) the water table has dropped about 100 ft since municipal water systems were started in the 1880's (municipal wells take daily readings of water table depth - good data for this). Yes it gets a lot of rain to recharge, but the drop shows we are using it faster than it is being replaced and that can't go on forever just like in the West. The government can print money, but it can't make water. BTW, most New Jersey residents get their water from ground water. Reason #1: there is much more ground water than surface water - you use the biggest resource first. Plus soil acts as a free filter.
We have a lot of people using a lot of water in the East and we aren't free of ugly battles either. Water managers are nervous sorts, but there are some storm clouds on the horizon.
We have a lot of people using a lot of water in the East and we aren't free of ugly battles either. Water managers are nervous sorts, but there are some storm clouds on the horizon.
