The cost of a fly vs. its value

[Catskill]

Online flies are approx .75 cents. Go into a fly shop and you'll pay between 1.95 and 2.50. I'm not sure which shops are charging what. I believe at least 1 Roscoe area shop is charging 2.25 per fly. I picked up a bunch of them, saw the price, then put them all back where they came from and walked out.

I probably have a few hundred dozen flies in my own arsenal, so I don't need flies (that's not an exaggeration). The reason I purchase flies from a shop is to support the shop. I won't support a shop that I think is taking advantage of a situation, especially after spending 80 bux in gas for the round trip.

The way I look at it... Let's say the flies in this shop were $1.50 each. I would have most definetely walked out with a minimum of 1 dozen flies (MINIMUM). I might have even picked up 2 dozen. Let's compromise and say I pick up 18 flies. Knowing that shops pay 7.00 - 8.00 per dozen, I would have spent roughly $27.00 in the store. This would have cost the shop approximately $12.00, leaving a profit of about $15.00 for my 3 1/2 minute visit. That's not too shabby. Instead, I walked out without a fly and the shop didn't make a penny from me.

Does it make sense for a shop to lower their prices to potentially sell quite a few more flies, or are shop owners doing so well that they don't need your extra buck. If I ran a shop, I think I'd bend over backwards (but not too far) to get some sales. I know one shop that still charges 1.95 per fly and will even throw in a few extra's every so often.

I don' expect to walk into a shop and walk out with freebies. Business is business and these guys are just trying to make a living but sometimes making a customer extra happy goes a long way. For example... Your happy customer might post about his positive experience on a website where hundreds of billions of fellow fly fishermen will read about it. Is that clientel a fly shop can afford to lose!

Shop owners might be saying... "we have overhead, insurance, etc..." - True... This is why I don't mind paying the 300% markup in the first place, but over 300% is just ripping me off. Uhhhh... yeah... right.

Anyhow, onto my question. At what value do you place on a fly?

Most of them sit in your box and lay dormant until they are called into active duty. Some of them come into combat only to be lost to a sniper up in a tree. Others are taken hostage almost as soon as they hit the battleground. Many take a few hits then are sent back to inactive duty. Then of course there are the ones who go out and conquer.

Price to value ration... What value do you place on a .75 cent fly that you take out of your box, use for 5 minutes, but catch no fish. What value on the same fly at $2.00? What value is placed on a .75 cent fly that absolutely clobbers the fish? Of course the answer to this one is priceless. How about a 2.00 fly?

So what are some scenarios you might want to compare? I think it's an interesting topic and I'm really interested in reading your thoughts on this one.

 

[onemorecast]

I'm with you all the way on supporting local fly shops where you're treated fairly. In fact, one in particular does exactly what you described: moderately priced flies and a extra or two thrown in once in a while. I've never been treated with anything but respect and never been given anything but good advice there. There is no better way to build repeat business.

I do, however, purchase flies online for those patterns I can't find locally. And I'm not about to ask a shop owner to carry those flies just for me.

The money I spend on flies is money well spent when they catch fish and I've never been steered wrong. If I don't catch fish with something that's been recommended, it's because I don't know how to fish them. Nothing makes me happier than to have to throw away a mangled fly because a dozen fish destroyed it (with me that takes a while ). My $2 goes a long way in that case.

 

[AKSkim]

In fact, one in particular does exactly what you described: moderately priced flies ....

Yeah, but make sure you COUNT your change, then check it against what the prices marked on the item(s) are.

As always, from experience, just a word of warning.

AK Skim, CPA

 

[AKSkim]

I read a few years ago in Fly Tyer magazine that the cost of an average fly was in the 30 cent range. If I remember correctly, that was based on tying 100 woolly bugger flies.

Catskill:

Have to remember that those fly shops in Pulaski have to make all their money in a matter of weeks. That being said, they still shouldn't try to gouge their customers.

I bet I know the fly shop... does it post a sign out behind their shop that you can't fish here unless you spend $35.00 in their shop that day??? Otherwise they will call the local police to have you arrested for trespassing...?

 

[Big_Spinner]

Cost of fly in Sri Lanka factory: 10 cents

Cost to Wholesaler in States: 50 cents

Cost to Retailer in NJ: 1.00 dollar

Cost to you when you step up to the register: 2.00 dollars

Value as you watch it disappear into the mouth of a big brown: PRICELESS

 

[Corndog]

CL,

I understand what you're saying about fly shops. But, if we don't support them they will disappear and our only options will be online, Walmart, or Gander Mountain.

When I fish a stream I'm unfamiliar with, I usually stop by a local fly shop if I can find one and pick the owner's/clerk's brain for info. If I get the info I'm looking for I spend at least 25 bucks as a return favor for his/her help. Hense, lots of expensive flys in my box.

Cdog

 

[frogge]

Hey,
I tie all my flys and for me a large part of the sport is the challenge of different techniques. That said I think the mark up on all sporting goods is traditionally quite high. These are all elective purchases and the value of having an item where and when you need it can be considerable. The guide I fished with in Utah described his fly shop as a sign. He said he didn't make any money on the shop, it helped him get guiding work. He also noted he couldn't afford the fancy rods, even at wholesale. So I expect that nobody is getting rich on fly shops. Toodles,Frogge.

 

[dcabarle]

Cost of fly in Sri Lanka factory: 10 cents

Cost to Wholesaler in States: 50 cents

Cost to Retailer in NJ: 1.00 dollar

Cost to you when you step up to the register: 2.00 dollars

Value as you watch it disappear into the mouth of a big brown: PRICELESS

Jim,

You're way over with your 1.00 estimate. Far less and that's with first hand knowledge from more than 1 shop owner.

 

[Andy B]

This is a good thread and some thoughts came to mind as I read through it. I tye my own flies and rarely ever buy any flies. What I do instead of buying flies is to buy some tying material. The one shop I exclusively visit in roscoe always makes a sale off me for Schlappen, Quills, Floss, and hooks. This way I don't mind asking how the fishing is going and getting information and I walk out of the store with items I would use for tying. Could I have gotten it just a little cheaper, perhaps but it's just a few pennies more and still makes me feel I supported a local fly shop. Now far are flies, I do not place a value on the fly because of the amount of fish it caught or didn't catch. You see to me I place a value on the fly by the amount of time it truly takes me to tye it and the amount of materials involved. The more material and the harder the tye then the cost would be a little higher. Every one that knows me knows I am a wet fly tyer. I would charge less for a Yellow Sally wet fly and would charge more for a Silver Doctor. The Silver Doctor requires a lot more time and has more materials involved. The Yellow Sally is simple and I can tye them in my sleep. Then when I tye a Durham Ranger then the price for my time and materials again increases.

Andy Brasko

 

[irish1]

I try to tie most of my own flies but when I go into a local fly shop I will purchase the flys recomended by them for two reasons. First I am sure the flys are catching fish and second the fly shop should get paid for the information they have of the area. If you are unwilling to pay more for the equipment go to a big box store but don't cry about not being able to get the "hot" fly or information about the conditions in the KLG from a store in Trenton because the local shop is no longer there.

 

[JeffK]

One more thing I look for is local tied flies, which I expect to pay more for than one tied in Sri Lanka or China. The hooks and materials may also be better. Some fly shops in destination areas will have some local options which I can't get anywhere and I don't mind paying about $2+per fly. However, I don't like paying $2 for an inexpensive fly I could get for $0.75 elsewhere.

 

[vince45]

The different oppinion were interesting to read, and this subject has had a big response, that is what makes this board so great ..vince

 

[Burtbords149]

I try to tie almost all my own flies for the sake that it's convenient and costs a bit less because I already have the materials. When there's a fly that is too difficult a tie or just not worth the effort I'll buy it and support a shop. When a store owner gives me tip on a hot fly I almost always buy a couple so that 1. I can take advantage of such advice and 2. I am repaying him/her for the hot tip.
I agree with Andy's way of supporting a shop, buying materials to tie a suggested pattern.
When I encounter a shop that ties there own flies (Dette's for example) I will certainly buy a couple because I know they are a quality product and someone I can see and talk to has put their quality time into making this fly.

 

[theartoflee]

Value as you watch it disappear into the mouth of a big brown: PRICELESS

Jim I couldnt agree more with you! Some of the flys I have gotten from swaps have produced excellent results. All those flys cost me is a little time and effort to spin them up.

This past memorial day weekend I took a nice brown on one of your Mini Spinners from the swap a while back.

Saw very few of what I thought were brown drake spinners the next day on the water.

Great fly thanks again!

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Dennis,

Here is how I calculated the fly cost to the shop:

32,429 import flies @ .64 = $20,754.56
11,786 local ties @ 1.02 = $12,021.72
16,230 salt water @ 1.72 = $27,915.60

Total flies: = 60445

Total Cost: = $63286.20

Avg Cost: $1.0041

So, I rounded down to a dollar!!!!

 

[dcabarle]

Fair enough... For all intent and purposes, I think the orginal post was for fishing streams vs. paying for Imports (although the original post didn't exactly state that.)

Hi Dennis,

Here is how I calculated the fly cost to the shop:

32,429 import flies @ .64 = $20,754.56
11,786 local ties @ 1.02 = $12,021.72
16,230 salt water @ 1.72 = $27,915.60

Total flies: = 60445

Total Cost: = $63286.20

Avg Cost: $1.0041

So, I rounded down to a dollar!!!!

 

[Corndog]

Everytime I go to Roscoe, I stop by Mary's (Dette's) to chat with her and pick up some flys. One time a few years back I stopped in and asked Mary what was hot. She said the usual stuff that I fish up there. I told her I have plenty of those, that I want something different. She walks over and pulls out this enormous white dry fly and hands it to me. I laughed cause I thought she was joking. Then she went into detail about how these flys, fall from the overhanging trees into the water and when they do the trout go crazy to get the few of them that their are, and that this is the time of year that you see them. They were expensive, I think 3 bucks each, so I only took a half a dozen. I spent the morning fishing and looking for these flys in the trees and on the water. It wasn't until about 5pm that I saw one drop to the river. It floated about 10 feet down stream and was met by a hungry mouth. I was so excited I could hardly tie one to my tippet. The first 2 knots slipped out. Then I realized the larger hook size would require a few more loops to my knot. I decided to cast high to see if it size would allow it to float lightly to the water's surface, but put it in the tree the natural fell from. I violently jerked my rod and a couple more fell from the tree to the water. They were gobbled right up. I reeled in and tied on another. First drift it disappeared, I set the hook and brought in a nice borwnie around 14". That was the only fish I ever caught on those flys. The time I spent with Mary, fishing that fly on the BK that day, and that brownie are forever in my thoughts. That experience to me was PRICELESS!!! Think twice before you let the cost of a fly get the better of you.

Can anybody name the fly?

Cdog

 

[AKSkim]

The time I spent with Mary, fishing that fly on the BK that day, and that brownie are forever in my thoughts. That experience to me was PRICELESS!!! Think twice before you let the cost of a fly get the better of you. Cdog

A very nice story Cd.

If your able to recall your conversation with her, I believe it would make for a very interesting post to read.

AKS

 

[dcabarle]

Can anybody name that fly?

Coffin Fly.

 

[Stonefly]

time spent relaxing at your bench, fish caught on your own creation = priceless.

 

[Corndog]

Coffin Fly.

DC knows his BK bugs.

Cdawg lol

 

[Corndog]

A very nice story Cd.

If your able to recall your conversation with her, I believe it would make for a very interesting post to read.

AKS

AK,

As you well know, Mary is a class act. I would say, a very proper lady. So, one day about 10 or 12 years back, I went to her home with a couple buddys and we got to joking around with her. Then one of my buddys asked her something like, How do you tell male from female mayflys? What she did next made our jaws drop and was totally unexpected. She proceded by taking an adams, turning it over, and raising it's tail feathers. Then she said, "This is how you tell them apart." and she started laughing. She couldn't even finish her sentence. We all knew what she meant, but were too shocked to laugh at first.

Cdog

 

[Harry]

I like to tie most of my own flies, but when traveling out west I can't afford the extra bag charges so I take only a couple of boxes with me. Or if they are rising to a pattern that I didn't bring with me. I deal with one shop in SLC who sells theirs for $1.35 per. Buy a dozen get one free and they give you a card and stamp it, buy ten dozen you get a dozen free. Alot of the flies are tied by local retiree's in the back of the shop.

 

[NJpatbee]

Since I flyfish in the Northeast for trout only, and primarily in NJ/NY/PA, I tie all my flies also. To put a general price on a typical fly can be somewhat misleading since I can knock out a dozen GRHE in a short period of time, but I am an absolute fanatic about tying Quill Gordons because of the standards that I hold myself to, and because the pattern is somehat more difficult than the GRHE nymph. I insist upon natural wood duck and strip my own quills.

Because of this, I would be wary of ordering imported flies where every fly is 75 cents. They may call it a Quill Gordon, but it is not a Quill Gordon. I would say whenever possible support your local professional fly tyers, (I have known some and promise that they are not getting rich), and you get the real thing. Think of it this way, a professional can probably tie a high quality Catskill dry fly in 5 minutes which includes materials preparation. That's 12 /hour, plus the cost of materials even at that quantity has to be 40 cents (it costs me about 70 cents). So if he charges $1.50/fly to a shop, he grosses $18/hour minus $5 in materials for a net of $13/hour (which is subject to Federal and State taxes). If he charges $2/fly he nets $19/hour. The shop would then have to sell the fly for $2.50 - $3.00 to make any kind of margin. Doesn't sound like gouging to me.

Or you can be like me and tie 3-4 (not counting the ones I dispose of) Quill Gordons in an hour and enjoy every minute of it!

 

[dcabarle]

Well, it was either that or a moth and I doubt Dette would sell you a moth!

DC knows his BK bugs.

Cdawg lol