Welcome to NEFF

Sign up for a new account today, or log on with your old account!
Register

Give us a try!

Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!

Sunday morning FRUITCAKE seminar at the Symposium with, Gary Borger 7:30am

trico mike said:
Religion effects everyone of us everday.laws are passed on religous beliefs. Wars are fought because of religion. You only needto look at isis to see this. Their beliefs are driving them to do what they are doing. We may say that they are barbaric but they believe this is what god wants. Thankfully Christians never did anything like this. Whoops forgot about the crusades!
Click to expand...

I love how everyone wants to rag on religion as causing wars, and uses it as a reason to not quantify their own beliefs, whatever they may be, but rather disregard religion. I could make a solid argument that money has caused a whole lot of bloodshed and wars too, but I don't see anyone denouncing their bank accounts on payday.

At the end of the day, we all believe something different, and we can, because we have that right and that freedom. I only chimed in because

1.) the idea of people saying 'religion' is bad or stupid or it sucks is funny, because by it's definition even atheism is a religion

2.) most of the talk on here is about how religion is violent and war causing and oppresses people's opposing views (speaking only of Christianity). But all I saw in the thread was people who were on the offensive against Christians because in a very non offensive peaceful way someone tried to advertise their bible study.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mtthwnvk said:
by it's definition even atheism is a religion
Click to expand...

i'm sure anyone can define these terms or find definitions to suit their needs, but the first definition for each as provided by google (the arbiter of all disputes) are:

Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods

Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods

sooooo...?



mtthwnvk said:
on the offensive against Christians because in a very non offensive peaceful way someone tried to advertise their bible study.
Click to expand...

without reading the whole thread, i took the initial post as ridiculing the fact that there was a religious event tied to and advertised by the symposium, which does strike me as a little...odd...as well. but, whatever. people get their panties in such bunches when anything relating to religion is discussed.
 
Rusty, Glad to see you got dragged into this awesome conversation.


I have a question to present to this group.

I've explained how, while I am indifferent to religion and do not believe or not believe in anything, Christianity is still part of my identity. It matters to me because it's a part of my culture and my ancestry.

My question is this; Does the move away from religion being an integral part of family life in America leave the next generation and more importantly their children, with a void that can potentially be filled by something like lets say,, Islam??

Maybe that is crazy talk. I dont know

I'm just saying. I saw plenty of white kids pretend to be black when they were young because, I believe at least, their parents didn't teach them much about who they were and they lacked culture in their upbringing. This happened without black culture even trying to recruit the wannabees..
 
tomfly said:


You are not the naive DC.
It has always been and will always be about being elected.

The majority of Americans (73%) identify themselves as Christians and about 20% have no religious affiliation. According to the American Religious Identification Survey(ARIS) of 2008, 76% of the American adult population identified themselves as Christians, with 51% professing attendance at a variety of churches that could be considered Protestant or unaffiliated, and 25% professing Catholic beliefs.The same survey says that other religions (including, for example, Judaism, Buddhism,Islam, and Hinduism) collectively make up about 4% of the adult population, another 15% of the adult population claim no religious affiliation
Click to expand...

So, your reason for religion influencing political decisions is because a majority of the population is religious? So take the constitution and wipe yer arse with it....and which religion or god should we refer to when religion is influencing our political beliefs? If i mis-understand your post please explain.......

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

So any law that is influenced by religion in my mind, is a bunch of crap....this is why religion should not influence politics....If we let it we are no better than a religious state, such as Iran....

I am not at your church protesting, I am involved in a discussion on a fly fishing forum, that is it a discussion...I am not pushing my non-belief down your throat, or trying to push it on you...I am discussing the different factors that led me to it and the different factors that cause me to dislike organized religion......so stop with the atheists are pushing their agenda, and we are always in your faces...Those aren't my bells ringing every Sunday morning to remind me of something, those aren't my TV shows I see when channel surfing, those aren't my people on the news killing people because they don't believe, I don't stop by your house to give you a pamphlet on God, it's not me that leaves a small book on the table in lieu of a tip, trying to make you believe.........I don't wear jewelry that says, I am an atheist..I see crosses around necks everywhere, I see burkas and kippas, and turbines and dots on foreheads, I see fish stickers daily on cars, and people say "god bless you" if I cough or sneeze..I say thank you, I don't go, I am a NON-BELIEVER shut yer mouth........I say nothing and ask for nothing.....drop the atheists are pushing an agenda.....I THINK NOT!!!! Shoe and foot...

Once again, I respect all of your beliefs, unless you are a radical killer, just making a point.....




PS...Moose, I think the white kids trying to be black comes from the media and their pushing of the culture and music, because it makes dollars...I don't understand that on bit though..you wanna be a gansta'? I'll drop you in Camden in the middle of the nigh and see how you do....
 
emoussa said:
Rusty, Glad to see you got dragged into this awesome conversation.
Click to expand...

I see my role in this silly conversation as eaking out another 2 pages when things slow. Right now, job accomplished.


Now who is going fishing with me in the Musky Gorge tomorrow? I'm even willing to fish with atheists! :pope::fish:
 
I honestly believe there is a fundamental misconception about religion and faith and the like.
 
Rusty Spinner said:
That's not it at all; you should follow the Commandments always. But Christ taught us that we are all sinners if you are a believer. But let's just say you don't believe as I know you don't. Wouldn't you agree that the old Golden Rule applies well in life? That's really (to me, anyway) boiling down the 10 Commandments. Pretty hard not to agree with the golden rule even if you have no religion.


(although it's pretty hard to agree with the golden beetle)

Sorry you can't hit up the Musky Gorge tomorrow and sorry for such short notice. One day soon, this will be fully open to the public. At least that's my goal for now.
Click to expand...
I think the following are reasonable:

6,7,8,9

1,2,3,4 is all about being loyal to your god.

5 - What if your parents happen to be serial killers? Or, just yesterday Some Christian whack job attempted to kill her two kids to bring them closer to Jesus. Hmmm... I guess you're 50/50 on this one!

10.. well look... if she's in the back yard in a bikini sitting by the pool and HOT HOT HOT, I promise, I am looking and you know you're looking too. The difference is... I don't have to feel bad about it. I also don't have to pray to be .. what was that word you used before!

*Edit* - One more thing... Disobey any of those commandments and the sentence is death.
 
lightenup said:
So, your reason for religion influencing political decisions is because a majority of the population is religious? So take the constitution and wipe yer arse with it....and which religion or god should we refer to when religion is influencing our political beliefs? If i mis-understand your post please explain.......

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

So any law that is influenced by religion in my mind, is a bunch of crap....this is why religion should not influence politics....If we let it we are no better than a religious state, such as Iran....

I am not at your church protesting, I am involved in a discussion on a fly fishing forum, that is it a discussion...I am not pushing my non-belief down your throat, or trying to push it on you...I am discussing the different factors that led me to it and the different factors that cause me to dislike organized religion......so stop with the atheists are pushing their agenda, and we are always in your faces...Those aren't my bells ringing every Sunday morning to remind me of something, those aren't my TV shows I see when channel surfing, those aren't my people on the news killing people because they don't believe, I don't stop by your house to give you a pamphlet on God, it's not me that leaves a small book on the table in lieu of a tip, trying to make you believe.........I don't wear jewelry that says, I am an atheist..I see crosses around necks everywhere, I see burkas and kippas, and turbines and dots on foreheads, I see fish stickers daily on cars, and people say "god bless you" if I cough or sneeze..I say thank you, I don't go, I am a NON-BELIEVER shut yer mouth........I say nothing and ask for nothing.....drop the atheists are pushing an agenda.....I THINK NOT!!!! Shoe and foot...

Once again, I respect all of your beliefs, unless you are a radical killer, just making a point.....




PS...Moose, I think the white kids trying to be black comes from the media and their pushing of the culture and music, because it makes dollars...I don't understand that on bit though..you wanna be a gansta'? I'll drop you in Camden in the middle of the nigh and see how you do....
Click to expand...

So, your reason for religion influencing political decisions is because a majority of the population is religious?

I just stated the population statistics of Americans that hold religious beliefs. Most Americans that are religious hold a moral value that is faith based. So you don’t go there I think that you would. I am in no way suggesting the atheist do not hold a moral code. I would believe that atheists moral code is mostly equal to a faith bases.

The definition of Morality: a society as a whole to place judgment on what is right and wrong. With that said; one of the bases of the social contract between a government with elected officials and the populous is rooted in moral values. Some with religion base.

Thou shall not kill
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor
3 of the 10 commandments based in 3 of the major religions.
All are moral wrong in a civil society and punishable under criminal laws

If i mis-understand your post please explain.......
I think I did .



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
So any law that is influenced by religion in my mind, is a bunch of crap....this is why religion should not influence politics.

I have to call you out on this one.
By your statement any dimwitted lawyer could make a compelling argument that murder theft and perjury have religious bias and violate the separation of church and state. Therefore should be deemed unconstitutional. You do see the ludicrous nature of that. If that were to happen you would see a fundamental breakdown of society

The Social contract is based on morality. Morality has roots embedded in religion.

If 75% of the population holds a moral code that is faith based, elected officials are going to follow the morality code of the majority.
Do you see any political candidate running for office under the platform I hold the moral beliefs of MBLA . You will never because of the social contract.
 
Last edited:
trico mike said:
Religion effects everyone of us everday.laws are passed on religous beliefs. Wars are fought because of religion. You only needto look at isis to see this. Their beliefs are driving them to do what they are doing. We may say that they are barbaric but they believe this is what god wants. Thankfully Christians never did anything like this. Whoops forgot about the crusades!
Click to expand...

The crusades were in response to what the muslims had done.
 
dcabarle said:
10.. well look... if she's in the back yard in a bikini sitting by the pool and HOT HOT HOT, I promise, I am looking and you know you're looking too. The difference is... I don't have to feel bad about it. I also don't have to pray to be .. what was that word you used before!
Click to expand...

Like I said, we're all sinners :)
 
tomfly said:

So, your reason for religion influencing political decisions is because a majority of the population is religious?

I just stated the population statistics of Americans that hold religious beliefs. Most Americans that are religious hold a moral value that is faith based. So you don’t go there I think that you would. I am in no way suggesting the atheist do not hold a moral code. I would believe that atheists moral code is mostly equal to a faith bases.

The definition of Morality: a society as a whole to place judgment on what is right and wrong. With that said; one of the bases of the social contract between a government with elected officials and the populous is rooted in moral values. Some with religion base.

Thou shall not kill
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor
3 of the 10 commandments based in 3 of the major religions.
All are moral wrong in a civil society and punishable under criminal laws

If i mis-understand your post please explain.......
I think I did .



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
So any law that is influenced by religion in my mind, is a bunch of crap....this is why religion should not influence politics.

I have to call you out on this one.
By your statement any dimwitted lawyer could make a compelling argument that murder theft and perjury have religious bias and violate the separation of church and state. Therefore should be deemed unconstitutional. You do see the ludicrous nature of that. If that were to happen you would see a fundamental breakdown of society

The Social contract is based on morality. Morality has roots embedded in religion.

If 75% of the population holds a moral code that is faith based, elected officials are going to follow the morality code of the majority.
Do you see any political candidate running for office under the platform I hold the moral beliefs of MBLA . You will never because of the social contract.
Click to expand...

You know Tom, we disagree about everything when it comes to these things.....which came first, the chicken or the egg? I don't know either, so we can (again in this thread) agree to disagree, as far as "social contracts" we both post here, so that point is moot......We should fish.....:)
 
Perhaps read the writings of:

Thomas Hobbes, Jean Jacques Rousseau, John Locke, All very religious men The writings of these men are the corner stone on which the foundation of our country was formed.

You might also want to read the correspondence between Jefferson and Addams quoting all of the above mentioned while drafting The Decoration of Independence.

You may not have to agree with the correlation of god and religion and how it influences the political direction of government. History proves it to be true. But ignoring it or dismissing it is a sign of ignorance.

The fact is God and regions morality have been intergraded into the political spectrum from the formation of the government.

The best rebuttal you have to religion and its influence on laws is “What came first the chicken or the egg “. I find that sad and some what humorous at the same time.

Sorry I was an American History Major before I switched to Computer Science.
 
tomfly said:
Perhaps read the writings of:

Thomas Hobbes, Jean Jacques Rousseau, John Locke, All very religious men The writings of these men are the corner stone on which the foundation of our country was formed.

You might also want to read the correspondence between Jefferson and Addams quoting all of the above mentioned while drafting The Decoration of Independence.

You may not have to agree with the correlation of god and religion and how it influences the political direction of government. History proves it to be true. But ignoring it or dismissing it is a sign of ignorance.

The fact is God and regions morality have been intergraded into the political spectrum from the formation of the government.

The best rebuttal you have to religion and its influence on laws is “What came first the chicken or the egg “. I find that sad and some what humorous at the same time.

Sorry I was an American History Major before I switched to Computer Science.
Click to expand...

Just trying to keep it light hearted...but if you would like to call me ignorant..go right ahead..it makes me giggle a bit that you can't look past your nose......you don't have to apologize for being a history major...and I really don't care...I guess we can't agree to dis-agree....It isn't the 1700's anymore...I would like to think our government has evolved a bit.....religion influencing our decisions of today is very bad, like I said before. IRAN.....My argument is, morality does not come from religion...it is a human trait......as is anger, love, hatred, any human emotion, feeling, want,.......you argue religion created morality. ..I disagree...you find that ignorant? Lighten the fuck up and look in a mirror. I am done because Tom has gotten his panties in a bunch and started calling names..:) not really but it sounded fun...

edit* Just to keep this fun......it's Adams, not Addams you boob....Should we call him Gomez?

The Decoration of Independence? Respect it and spell it correctly please.....:) Just having some fun, I know they are typos
 
Last edited:
This discussion is sure to change when lightenup finally finds that jesus-shaped-mcnugget-with-the-ten-commandments-and-the-constitution-written-on-either-side that he's been praying for.
 
attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • atheist - DSOM.jpg
    atheist - DSOM.jpg
    233.6 KB · Views: 401
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top