Protect The Delaware River!!!!!

[Future Fanatic]

Does anyone else find it interesting that someone who obviously was not there, is complaining about others not having been there?

Are you refering to COZ complaining about NYC not being there?


Of course, I was not complaining about those not being there (when I wasn't. That would make me a hypocrite). I was complaining about those complaining about those who were not there, when they weren't.

Good point though.

I'd love to start a list of those who WERE there, this way we know who can complain:

1. Jim Serio
2. Lee Hartman?(you were pretty sure, Agust)
3.
Let's try to keep this going...

 

[AKSkim]

Of course, I was not complaining about those not being there (when I wasn't). I was complaining about those complaining about those who were not there, when they weren't.

What he said.... I'll drink to that.

 

[Joe D]

I think that it is important to interact with the decision makers before they have made the decision. Showing up for the "vote" may be too late.

Jim,

That's fine, but if the decision makers aren't present how can there be any interaction?

 

[Joe D]

I was complaining about those complaining about those who were not there, when they weren't.

If your state representative didn't show up to a meeting they were expected to be at you couldn't complain unless you also went to the meeting?

 

[Future Fanatic]

If your state representative didn't show up to a meeting they were expected to be at you couldn't complain unless you also went to the meeting?

That's a good question Joe D.

In THIS case, I'm not sure what the expectations are for the representatives that show up. Did the contingents from the other states look rattled, pissed or upset that the New Yawkers didn't show? Were there phone calls made to the local hospitals checking for them? Have other states been no shows in the past? Were ANY decisions made where the presence of the New York crowd was necessary? Or did the rest of the DRBC folks seemed relieved that there were some empty chairs from the perennial sticks in the mud?

MORE importantly, who is the BOSS of these NY folks? Were they doing exactly what they were told to do? Who gets the blame for their absence?

BUT, Agust found it "interesting that someone who obviously was not there, is complaining about others not having been there?" Me, too. And more to YOUR question, if I belonged to or supported an organization that was supposed to be committed to fighting with or lobbying the DRBC, I guess I would feel within my rights to complain about their not being there.

SO, point taken.

Now getting back to the question that began this philosophical adventure, "What filtration plant?"

I noticed that COZ(sorry to keep picking on him) used the term "WE" in one of his posts ("We will keep you posted"). This has some implications for the depth of my concern and the importance for EVERYONE to have a full understanding of this whole "NYC can't give up any water or the feds will make 'em pay 9 billion $ for a filtration plant" statement.

My questions are these:
Does COZ speak for himself here, the organization he belongs to(We) or both?

If in this thread he speaks for the organization(We), do they hold the view that NYC can't give up water or else lose 9 billion?

If his organization holds that view, is that what their lawyers told them that 200 page agreement said?

If his organizations lawyers feel that if NYC gives into their demands for more water that NYC will be out 9 billion, what is the point of going to ANY meetings to try to sway them with a "poor flooded hicks/cooked fishies" argument, when it means one extra drop of water equals $9 billion out of their pocket?

Thanks in advance for any insight...

 

[Future Fanatic]

Turbility is the issue. They have damaged one of the reservoirs because of using to much Aluminum Sulfate, Alum to keep the water clear. I have yet to found out which reservoir, Croton?

Alums byproduct is sulfuric acid. Although alum is not harmful by itself it contributes to harbouring bacteria, parasites and viruses.

A while back I was riding around with a former NYS politican in Westchester County. He drove us past what I believe was part of the Croton system. He went on to say how the water quality was poor, that they had to add chemicals to remove particulate matter in the water. BUT the amount of precipitate that was produced was immense. He said it piled up in the reservoirs. He described it as being like loose grey pudding. That's why they needed a filtration plant THERE. So I think you are correct.

 

[Future Fanatic]

My questions are these:
Does COZ speak for himself here, the organization he belongs to(We) or both?

If in this thread he speaks for the organization(We), do they hold the view that NYC can't give up water or else lose 9 billion?

If his organization holds that view, is that what their lawyers told them that 200 page agreement said?

If his organizations lawyers feel that if NYC gives into their demands for more water that NYC will be out 9 billion, what is the point of going to ANY meetings to try to sway them with a "poor flooded hicks/cooked fishies" argument, when it means one extra drop of water equals $9 billion out of their pocket?

Thanks in advance for any insight...

Since it seems that the "experts" don't feel the need to weigh in, maybe I could post a little primary source material to shed some light on the question.

This:
http://www.epa.gov/region02/water/nycshed/2007fad_certificationpage.pdf

is the EPA's waiver to NYC until 2017 of NYC's requirement to filter water from the west of the Hudson sources.

It references the NYC 2006 Long-term Watershed Protection Program, here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/watershed_protection/pdf/longterm.pdf
as being the document of which the EPA writes that NYC has shown continuing commitment to.


The original Watershed Memorandum of Agreement is here(it's huge):

http://www.epa.gov/region02/water/nycshed/2007wp_program121406final.pdf

In looking through all the obvious places, I could find NO place where it shows that

If NYC/DRBC gives any water to anyone outside of normal operations the FEDS will force NYC/DRBC to build the system.

Again I ask, COZ, could you show me where that is? Or what part of these documents do "the lawyers" believe that this can be construed?

AND if it's not there, can you tell us why your organization would use that premise as part of their strategy for dealing with the DRBC and NYC?

I think it's important for the people concerned about the Delaware to be acting upon correct information. Our time and efforts are too valuable.

 

[Ryan R]

The federally endangered Dwarf wedge mussel is really the only hope in my personal opinion. almost no chance that any coalition of organizations, whether it's TU, FUDR, DRF, FUBAR, SNAFU or whatever acronym, is going to get NYC to comply with any agreement "reached."

 

[Joe D]

The federally endangered Dwarf wedge mussel is really the only hope in my personal opinion. almost no chance that any coalition of organizations, whether it's TU, FUDR, DRF, FUBAR, SNAFU or whatever acronym, is going to get NYC to comply with any agreement "reached."

To this you can add American shad and American eel. These are both species of particular concern to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission

 

[Future Fanatic]

In looking through all the obvious places, I could find NO place where it shows that


Again I ask, COZ, could you show me where that is? Or what part of these documents do "the lawyers" believe that this can be construed?

AND if it's not there, can you tell us why your organization would use that premise as part of their strategy for dealing with the DRBC and NYC?

I think it's important for the people concerned about the Delaware to be acting upon correct information. Our time and efforts are too valuable.

COZdub, since you thanked RyanR's post about our savior the Mollusk, I assume that you read my questions, and chose not to address where it might be that you found your information about NYC not being able to give up any water.

I guess that settles it then, yes? Yeah, that's a rhetorical question.

 

[AKSkim]

I guess that settles it then, yes? Yeah, that's a rhetorical question.

When I was a lad and on Saturday morning while in the confessional I asked the Preist, " Hey Fartah, can God make something so heavy that even he can't lift it?"

Thinking back on it, youse guys who are always only writing about flows on the Delaware.. do yourselves a big favour and give it a break will yeah.

Case you haven't realized it yet, the flow rates are what they are, and no amount of pissing into the wind is going to change that.... well actually yes it will. With all the piss you guys have added to the river, most likely raised the flow rates about 1,000 cfs this year alone.

Just adding a health hazard to all the people downstream.

Like Montague, NJ and places like that.