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proposal to close state parks

All and all, I don't think Corzine wants to decrease spending at all. I'd say these are just a bunch of political threats that we won't see happen. Once Corzine asks for more money, we'll see a bunch of people saying, "Well hell, this is a lot better than no state parks." And Corzine may get what he wants.
 
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Just one more thing on condensing school districts. If you merge districts, you may not have to pay as many superintendents, but you will surely have to hire more teachers, for classroom sizes would increase dramatically. The other option would be oversized classes, which means less teaching being done and a dumber NJ (which I really dont think we can afford at this point!).:dizzy:

One other statistic: Mean avg. teacher to student ratio is 12.5:1 which is far better than most states. As far as hiring more teachers, not sure I agree. Most of the district consolidation is in administrative and supervisory positions. Same teachers that teach today would teach in a consolidated district. Think about it. there are a good number of districts in the state with 10 or less schools. Each of these districts have their own admin and supervisory staff. You have to think of it like this. No one area can be off limits for consideration. Everything has to be looked at otherwise you cant achieve your overall goal. By the way we will be undertaking the same exercise at the federal level in short order. Few people truly understand the depth of our economic issues. Like it or not we have some very tough choices looming otherwise our financial situation will ultimately be our demise.
 
All and all, I don't think Corzine wants to decrease spending at all. I'd say these are just a bunch of political threats that we won't see happen. Once Corzine asks for more money, we'll see a bunch of people saying, "Well hell, this is a lot better than no state parks." And Corzine may get what he wants.

Yup BB, like I said earlier, I think he's bluffing and I believe my property taxes are going up yet again.

Cdog
 
Yup BB, like I said earlier, I think he's bluffing and I believe my property taxes are going up yet again.

Cdog
You could always move to Bushkill and still hit your favorite spots. They also have a great new (few years old) venue there for concerts.. saw Bob Weir from the Grateful Dead there along with the Allman Bros. Band. What a cool place for concerts that is. I went camping, fishing, and saw a great show in one weekend. :beer: Happy Friday y'all!! Have fun and stay dry if you're going out for the opener!!
 
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I am no liberal or conservative

Does anyone else see the irony of a bunch of Republicans getting pissed at a Democrat for trying to cut expenses?

I hate it when anyone makes an argument like "they do X in France so we should do it too." Then move to France. You can extend that argument to PA. I spent ten years there and will take crappy old NJ any day.

Tom

I see the irony and its called politics. Repubilcan party lost its soul many years ago hence the reason why the conservatives try to differentiate themselves. Having lived in NJ for the first 18 plus years and then briefly in my late 20s/early 30s (its all kind of hazy now). I would currently take PA hands down. However in terms of taxes PA is quickly closing the gap largely due to a vey large Senior citizen population that is demanding lower property taxes which results in some other segment of society paying more). Still I would stick with PA since I think NJ is far too progressive (plus we have better fishing):rolleyes:
 
BB,

You mention school districts merging...I agree with you...don't mess with the schools. Laura Bush put together a team in 2006 to study success/failure of our high schools in the US. What came out of this study was that NJ has the highest graduation rates in the country. Sussex County High Schools were all above 90%. Meaning more than 90 out of 100 kids entering high school graduated. NY was down around 60% and PA and CT were in the 80% range. Washington DC had the lowest. Figures. If Corsine messes with the schools I think many affluent people, concerned about their childrens education, will move to PA or CT, myself included.

Cdog

Yup BB, like I said earlier, I think he's bluffing and I believe my property taxes are going up yet again.

Cdog[/QUO
Mr CDOG

In reading these 2 posts it would appears they are diametrically (dont check the spelling on the last word) opposed. Your first quote states down mess with the schools and your second quote states you believe your taxes will be raised. Now in PA more than 3/4 of your taxes go the school district. Am I correct that it is the same if not similar in NJ. If thats the case you certainly cant be upset that your taxes are going to go up and they surely will go up. I value education very much but NJ spend exhorbitant amounts of money and I think you would need a measurement beyond college grad rates to determine if that is providing the return on investment. For instance, is there a measurement of return to the state economy that could be derived from this effort.

In PA property taxes have gone up 300 dollars a a year for yours truly since 2004. We also have this lovely little tax called the berkheimer tax which is a local tax you get to hand over every year as well. Attempts at reforming the property tax system have failed miserably in PA. Why because no one wants to make a hard decision? Whats interesting now is that with home values declining (15%) where I live people are now seeking to appeal there property taxes and are getting turned down. Of course this has nothing to do with whether or not its a valid request. Its because the county cant afford the lower taxes since it will impact the school budget.

We currently bit the bullet but at some point its unsustainable so while I applaud your desire for high quality education it comes with a cost and that cost continues to rise especially with the increases in healthcare and special education needs.

Perhaps we should start a thread entitled "what would you cut" and see what folks come up with. I am a big believer that the answer lies in the masses and not in government.
 
MACFLY,

I think it's inherent in man that we complain about taxes.

I accept the fact that to have good schools in NJ's social economic and political environment, we must pay more and more taxes.

That being said, I posted earlier that in 5 years I'm out of here (NJ that is). Reason being, all my kids will have graduated and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay these outrageous property taxes to live in a state where I will be receiving minimal benefits from my tax dollars.

I also stated earlier that NJ will eventually implode into itself and I don't want to be here when it does. I want to sell my home while it's still worth something. Before property tax payments exceed mortgage payments.

Do you know of any low tax states or countries that have good trout fishing?

Cdog
 
Property taxes will always increase to keep up with the worth of the dollar and salaries.. the question at hand is by how much? To get property tax relief, the state must be willing to spend more of their own money and this is ONE thing I believe Corzine has been handling well. He's added more than 66.8 million dollars towards education in NJ, which is a nice number. He insists he is trying to save property taxes from going up DRAMATICALLY, not just up (which they have to). I think he does want to do that for people. Can he accomplish it; beets me. He has taken away from the Abbott (poor) districts who have been recieving much more money than other districts because he insists all districts have poor families and it shouldn't matter what zip code you live in. Im a fan of this because many Abbott districts I know of have used their funding for stupid crap. Example: no computers in the classrooms or books in the library, but an astro-turf football field (I wont say the name to save them from the embarrassment).
 
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NJ is spawning ground. Good place to raise kids but very expensive.

Decent fishing and very little taxes = New Hampshire. If you have kids though, think private schools there.
 
> Something to ponder!
>
>
> How much is a billion
>
> The next time you hear a politician use the
> word "billion" in a casual manner, think about
> whether you want the "politicians" spending
> YOUR tax money.
>
> A billion is a difficult number to comprehend,
> but one advertising agency did a good job of
> putting that figure into some perspective in
> one of its releases.
>
>
> A. A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
>
> B. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
>
> C. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living
in
> the Stone Age.
>
> D. A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth
on
> two feet.
>
> E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20
> minutes, at the rate our government is spending it.
>
> While this thought is still fresh in our brain,
let's take a look at New Orleans It's amazing what
you can learn with some simple division . .
>
> Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently
> asking the Congress for $250 BILLION to rebuild New
> Orleans. Interesting number, what does it mean?
>
> A. Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of
> New Orleans, (every man, woman, child) you
> each get $516,528.
>
> B. Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in
> New Orleans, your home gets $1,329,787.
>
> C. Or, if you are a family of four, your family
> gets $2,066,012.
>
> Washington, D.C .. HELLO!!! ... Are all your
> calculators broken??
>
> Tax his bills,
> Tax his gas,
> Tax his notes,
> Tax his cash.
>
> Tax him good and let him know
> That after taxes, he has no dough.
> If he hollers, tax him more,
> Tax him until he's good and sore.
>
> Tax his coffin,
> Tax his grave,
> Tax the sod in which he lays.
> And when he's gone,
> We won't relax,
> We'll still be after the inheritance TAX!!
> Accounts Receivable Tax
> Building Permit Tax
> CDL License Tax
> Cigarette Tax
> Corporate Income Tax
> Dog Lice nse Tax
> Federal Income Tax
> Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
> Fishing License Tax
> Food License Tax
> Fuel Permit Tax
> Gasoline Tax
> Hunting License Tax
> Inheritance Tax
> Inventory Tax
> IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax),
> IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax),
> Liquor Tax,
> Luxury Tax,
> Marriage License Tax,
>
> Medicare Tax,
> Property Tax,
> Real Estate Tax,
> Service charge taxes,
> Social Security Tax,
> Road Usage Tax (Truckers),
> Sales Taxes,
> Recreational Vehicle Tax,
> School Tax,
> State Income Tax,
> State Unemployment Tax (SUTA),
> Vehicle License Registration Tax,
> Vehicle Sales Tax,
> Watercraft Registration Tax,
> Well Permit Tax,
> Workers Compensation Tax.
>
> STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
> Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago,
> and our nation was the most prosperous in the
world.
>
> We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest
>
> middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to
> raise the kids.
> What happened? Can you spell 'politicians!'
>
> And I still have to "press
> 1" for English.
 
MACFLY,

I think it's inherent in man that we complain about taxes.

I accept the fact that to have good schools in NJ's social economic and political environment, we must pay more and more taxes.

That being said, I posted earlier that in 5 years I'm out of here (NJ that is). Reason being, all my kids will have graduated and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay these outrageous property taxes to live in a state where I will be receiving minimal benefits from my tax dollars.

I also stated earlier that NJ will eventually implode into itself and I don't want to be here when it does. I want to sell my home while it's still worth something. Before property tax payments exceed mortgage payments.

Do you know of any low tax states or countries that have good trout fishing?

Cdog
To your first sentence... I agree whole heartedly. To your last question, I think you will have to leave the country in a few years. Its going to be very bad no matter where you live and no matter who is running the show. Our financial house is going to crumble so I would start looking in Argentina or New Zealand. When you get there send me a postcard? Im a better cook than BIGBOW and I will bring the beer (no coronas allowed).
 
To your first sentence... I agree whole heartedly. To your last question, I think you will have to leave the country in a few years. Its going to be very bad no matter where you live and no matter who is running the show. Our financial house is going to crumble so I would start looking in Argentina or New Zealand. When you get there send me a postcard? Im a better cook than BIGBOW and I will bring the beer (no coronas allowed).


New Zealand sounds good. You got a deal.

Sorry Bigbow, Macfly's bringing beer. But, you can bring your gay...I mean happy...self along if you like.

Note to self: Gotta get some soap on a rope.

Cdog
 
New Zealand sounds good. You got a deal.

Sorry Bigbow, Macfly's bringing beer. But, you can bring your gay...I mean happy...self along if you like.

Note to self: Gotta get some soap on a rope.

Cdog

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
New Zealand sounds good. You got a deal.

Sorry Bigbow, Macfly's bringing beer. But, you can bring your gay...I mean happy...self along if you like.

Note to self: Gotta get some soap on a rope.

Cdog

Have you not seen my avatar? I'd dam near forget my waders before I forgot the beer!! Now Im hurt! (not in the arse funnyman!!).
 
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Would you sacrifice your Homestead Rebate check?
[Bergen Record] Tuesday, April 22, 2008

Steeper cuts in the Homestead Rebate program could avert the closing of state parks and hospitals and other unpopular cuts in Governor Corzine's $33 billion budget, Senate President Dick Codey said Monday.

Codey, the second-most-powerful figure in state government, said limiting generous checks to seniors and property own-ers earning $100,000 or less could defuse tension over Corzine's austere spending plan.

The idea, he said in an interview with The Record, should be pursued if others fail to catch fire in the final two months of budget talks.

"If, at the end of the day, we feel the need to restore [budget] cuts and we've looked at every other way, I think it is reasonable to look there," Codey said.

The suggestion comes as lawmakers scramble to restore cuts while meeting Corzine's demand to reduce state spending below last year's levels without raising taxes or relying on one-time sources of revenue. Corzine also wants the size of state government reduced.

But some of Corzine's cuts — ranging from closing the Department of Agriculture, to reductions in aid to towns and counties — have met heated resistance from mayors, farmers, environmentalists and just about everybody who has been told to expect less from Trenton this year.

Corzine officials also have said that they may have to make more cuts to compensate for a drop in tax collections and other revenues.

Codey estimates that his plan would yield about $143 million, enough money to achieve Corzine's goals and to mollify constituency groups that have paraded to the State House to protest. Opponents of Corzine's plan to save $4.5 million by closing some state parks are expected in Trenton on Wednesday.

The Codey proposal would cut the rebate program further than Corzine proposed in his budget. Under Codey's plan, only households earning up to $100,000 would still get rebate checks averaging about $1,115 and seniors would still get $1,270.

Corzine has called for eliminating checks for households earning $150,000 to $250,000 after they received $745 checks last year.

Corzine also proposes smaller checks for households earning between $100,000 and $150,000 — a check of about $665 on average, or $300 less than last year.

Codey has never been a big fan of rebates, and called for abolishing the "gimmick" when he introduced his budget during his 2005 service as ex-Gov. Jim McGreevey's stand-in.

"The result of decades of passing the buck is a budget that cannot stand under its own weight, not today and definitely not tomorrow," Codey said at the time.

That budget called for trimming checks for seniors and eliminating them altogether for 1.3 million homeowners. He eventually relented, allowing for a scaled-back rebate program, but for a brief moment, he suggested that rebates are not a politically sacrosanct entitlement program.

Defenders say rebates, introduced in 1977, help soften the blow of rising property tax bills, but critics say most homeowners are not even aware that the checks are sent to defray the annual increase in taxes. They also say the checks are a cynical ploy, designed to generate goodwill — or soften voter anger — because they're mailed at the start of the election season.

Codey believes that lawmakers will not suffer any backlash at the polls for trimming the program. He noted that Republicans — who criticized the checks as an election-year giveaway last year — did not suffer any voter retaliation at the polls when the GOP-controlled Legislature scaled back the program in 1992. He also noted that many homeowners stand to receive federal income rebates this year as well.

Lilo Stainton, a Corzine spokeswoman, said the governor has "expressed a willingness" to make changes to his budget as long as his goals are met. But she also cast doubt on the Codey rebate-rollback suggestion.

"The governor already reduced the rebate program, and then some, and felt pretty strongly in the original budget proposal that maintaining the [cutoff] level at $150,000 is important, given all the other stresses on taxpayers these days," she said.

Codey acknowledges that the idea also does not sit well with Assembly Speaker Joe Roberts, D-Camden, who is opposed to further cuts in rebates. But Roberts has proposed replacing the rebate with a state-income tax credit. Roberts could not be reached for comment Monday.

"I respect the speaker's opinion, but I think there is potential for compromise," Codey said, adding that this depends, of course, on whether the rebate rollback proposal gathers steam.
 
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I don’t normally discuss politics but I feel the need now.

Here is a real simple way to reduce spending at the State level. Lower the pay and benefits of the “elected Public Servants” and cut back on their “discretionary spending”. You think this will ever happen? NO! Why because the “Public Servants” are not in politics to serve the people. They are, for the most part doing this for the power and to benefit themselves. Look at how many have multiple state jobs. Also look at some of the ways they work to benefit financially even after they leave the employ of the state.

Why do we as voters continue to put up with this stuff? I say vote out any incumbent and tell those newly elected, “You have one term to make the changes we want or you, too, will not be re-elected”. This will never happen because the voters of this state have a very short memory and are willing to be bought out by a very small check that just happen to be sent out right before an election. If you read the above post you will notice those being targeted for the “pay-offs” are the middle class and the poor. Those groups are affected the most by the cuts and alienated by the politicians during the year and must be “brought back into the fold”. The only way this can be done is by bribing them with a check returning a small part of their taxes.

While I can always use the extra money just keep my bribe and don’t raise taxes. They should spend their time working on something that would benefit everyone like lowering fuel costs.

End of rant (for now)
 
Parks cuts protested in Trenton
Wednesday, April 23, 2008
BY ELISE YOUNG

Five hundred employees and visitors to state parks descended on the State House this afternoon to ask Gov. Corzine not to cut hours at recreation areas in Bergen, Passaic and elsewhere.

"My park wasn't stated as one of those to be closed, but there are bumping rights for employees, meaning people with more seniority at other parks could replace those at the bottom," said Bill Powell, a maintenance worker for Spruce Run in Hunterdon County.

Barry Grassler of Middletown, a retired Revlon employee, said he was heartsick about Worthington State Forest in Warren County.

"I've fished and camped there for 45 years," he said. "I would be lying to you if I said I didn't cry over this."

Corzine's fiscal 2009 budget calls for closing or reducing hours at nine state parks, including Ringwood State Park. Steuben House in River Edge, closed since it sustained $1.5 million in storm damage last year, also would not reopen.

In recent weeks, lawmakers have said they probably would find a way to keep the parks open. But Lisa Jackson, commissioner of the Department of Environmental Protection, told the Senate Budget Committee on Wednesday that swimming and camping might be discontinued
 
Oh, when you said "My park wasn't stated as one of those to be closed" I thought you meant you worked there.

Cdog
 
Too add to C&R's post, after the demonstration Corzine announced he will be rethinking his plans with state parks. Like we discussed previously, I really didnt think this would happen and still dont believe it will. I would've went to Trenton myself if I could have gotten out of work. I wouldnt worry too much about the parks, but then again its politics and curveballs often come a flyin'
 
Now you're sounding like a politician yourself.

I really didnt think this would happen and still dont believe it will.
but then again its politics and curveballs often come a flyin'

I nominate Bigbow for NEFF Political Advisor and Script Writer.

Yea, I agree with you BB. I've been saying that Corzine has been bluffing all along.

Cdog
 
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