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It just doesn't stop! This is very disturbing!!!!

CTobias

CTobias

Professional BS'r
WOW, is all I have to say. What the heck is happening to this country?!!?!!

This is posted on the white houses website, asking you to tell them about anything fishy people may hear about the new health care plan. THIS HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF SICK JOKE! People telling on each other for what they hear about health care reform that might be fishy?!! People can't express their opinions now?? Well, guess we have to worry about the first ammendment now. RIDICULOUS!

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."


http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts...ubborn-Things/
 
Glad i cant vote ........
I can always go back to being a illegal mick working off the books and leave my union job and health care for people who do squat and complain.

Whatever happened to the american dream You know the one where you break your back and have a good life.

Now it seems to be all about what people can get for free.

I have somthing for you GET A ****ING J O B and stop mooching.

I come from a country with a national health care system and it Sucks.
The health coverage that is.
 
The way healthcare reform works is, it you can not afford healthcare they are going to help you,a sort of bail out. if you work a part time job so you can have healthcare than you obviously can afford it and there is no relief for you.
 
Eagle Claw said:
The way healthcare reform works is, it you can not afford healthcare they are going to help you,a sort of bail out. if you work a part time job so you can have healthcare than you obviously can afford it and there is no relief for you.
Click to expand...


Is that what you got out of the 1018 pages of double speak and political jibberish?
 
I tried reading it, but I don't speak political rhetoric. If anyone can read this and understand it, please feel free to enlighten the rest of us.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

Here is the story that goes with the words below.

What's Really in Obama's Health Care Reform Bill - A Plain English Translation by Mike Adams the Health Ranger

Here is what one gentleman got out of it.

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll <>BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
 
Everyone needs to contact the white house and let the czar know we don't want his plan...call your congressman regardless of his party, a letter or email has even more weight then a call...if you live near a congressman's district office or within s driveable distance, stop in. Most importantly call your us senator's they are taking this up in the senate the week after the august break. With corzine down in the polls by 15 points against christie, our two lib senators can read the hand writing on the wall...they are next!
 
Damn CT, reading that guys interpretation is like reading some peoples' interpretation of the bible....Where are my poisonous snakes?
 
I guess I look at this plan a little more on the bright side and I dont see why any union worker wouldn't. Yes, I am a covered union worker, but that is only because of a constant struggle to retain my benefits. My union has been fighting for years to keep our benefits intact and almost every year we fight the same battle. Union officials have told me that any step towards universal healthcare would be a good thing, as it would further protect what we already have in place. All these political posts are getting rediculous. Thats why there are political parties.. to represent different groups of people and their interests. A fly fishing website doesnt seem like the place to do all your crying and complaining. :bawling: This is like the um-teenth complaining thread.
 
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BIGBOW said:
I guess I look at this plan a little more on the bright side and I dont see why any union worker wouldn't. Yes, I am a covered union worker, but that is only because of a constant struggle to retain my benefits. My union has been fighting for years to keep our benefits intact and almost every year we fight the same battle. Union officials have told me that any step towards universal healthcare would be a good thing, as it would further protect what we already have in place. All these political posts are getting rediculous. Thats why there are political parties.. to represent different groups of people and their interests. A fly fishing website doesnt seem like the place to do all your crying and complaining. :bawling: This is like the um-teenth complaining thread.
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If you feel like you can trust the corrupt republican and corrupt democratic parties to do whats in YOUR best intrest, then go ahead. The rest of us would like to keep informed. In my opinion, anyone who tells you that socialized medicine is a good thing, is a fool. The basic concept is simple. Everyones healthcare coverage will be paid by the taxpayers. In 2002 it was estamitated that 32% of the US did not pay federal taxes after deductions and credits. Mind you that does not include illegals. So that means approxametly 68% of the US will need to pay for healthcare coverage of 100%. In order to even try to make that afforadable to the taxpayers, quality of coverage will need to be reduced.
 
NJDrew said:
If you feel like you can trust the corrupt republican and corrupt democratic parties to do whats in YOUR best intrest, then go ahead. The rest of us would like to keep informed. In my opinion, anyone who tells you that socialized medicine is a good thing, is a fool. The basic concept is simple. Everyones healthcare coverage will be paid by the taxpayers. In 2002 it was estamitated that 32% of the US did not pay federal taxes after deductions and credits. Mind you that does not include illegals. So that means approxametly 68% of the US will need to pay for healthcare coverage of 100%. In order to even try to make that afforadable to the taxpayers, quality of coverage will need to be reduced.
Click to expand...


I personally hate paying for someone else who is here illegally and only wants to grub off the system. I also don't want to wait 6 months for a doctors apt. and what would happen to those who have cancer. caught early will no longer be what they are told. As others have said look at the countrys who now have it and how much the people hate it.

Jamiep Not included in this...... I like him he's kinda nuts..

Hllywd
 
NJDrew said:
If you feel like you can trust the corrupt republican and corrupt democratic parties to do whats in YOUR best intrest, then go ahead. The rest of us would like to keep informed. In my opinion, anyone who tells you that socialized medicine is a good thing, is a fool. The basic concept is simple. Everyones healthcare coverage will be paid by the taxpayers. In 2002 it was estamitated that 32% of the US did not pay federal taxes after deductions and credits. Mind you that does not include illegals. So that means approxametly 68% of the US will need to pay for healthcare coverage of 100%. In order to even try to make that afforadable to the taxpayers, quality of coverage will need to be reduced.
Click to expand...

That is assuming that the only possible course of medical coverage is the plan that is government mandated. That will not be the case. Those that have healthcare coverage that they like (union workers, etc.) can KEEP THEIR HEALTH CARE PLAN. It is not mandatory health care coverage. Shit, if you want, you can go with no health care coverage. All the health care plan is, is another option. And since when was choice a bad thing?
 
I admit I'm not as knowledgable on it as I probably should be but that's not exactly how I understand it. I really don't trust politicians period, from any party.

jlajoie said:
That is assuming that the only possible course of medical coverage is the plan that is government mandated. That will not be the case. Those that have healthcare coverage that they like (union workers, etc.) can KEEP THEIR HEALTH CARE PLAN. It is not mandatory health care coverage. Shit, if you want, you can go with no health care coverage. All the health care plan is, is another option. And since when was choice a bad thing?
Click to expand...
 
Ryan R said:
I admit I'm not as knowledgable on it as I probably should be but that's not exactly how I understand it. I really don't trust politicians period, from any party.
Click to expand...

I don't trust them either.
And that distrust of politicians is the whole reason this country exists.
There are quite a few media outlets that are either willingly spreading disinformation, or more likely, not doing anything to STOP the spread of disinformation to the American public. The problem is, since the death of Tim Russert, I don't think that there is a newsperson out there that is as close to unbiased as he was.
 
jlajoie said:
I don't trust them either.
And that distrust of politicians is the whole reason this country exists.
There are quite a few media outlets that are either willingly spreading disinformation, or more likely, not doing anything to STOP the spread of disinformation to the American public. The problem is, since the death of Tim Russert, I don't think that there is a newsperson out there that is as close to unbiased as he was.
Click to expand...

Well I think we need to start a militia. :)
 
Its all aload of bollocks if you ask me .

Aint nothing wrong with a choice.But there is somthing wrong with having a choice when standards get lowered due to the fact of declining cost of medical expenses .Im no expert on this whole new health care proposal.

But i am worried it will affect my health care. The one i work hard for and pay for.

I dont begrudge anyone anything but i know lots of people And i mean lots of people Making six figures and ripping the current medicare system apart

My theory is if you cant afford it give them some help if you work pay for it.

Then round up all the people ripping off this current states system and make them pay for the people who cant afford it.
 
jlajoie said:
That is assuming that the only possible course of medical coverage is the plan that is government mandated. That will not be the case. Those that have healthcare coverage that they like (union workers, etc.) can KEEP THEIR HEALTH CARE PLAN. It is not mandatory health care coverage. Shit, if you want, you can go with no health care coverage. All the health care plan is, is another option. And since when was choice a bad thing?
Click to expand...

Choice is a bad thing when your choices are:

<font face="Verdana"><font color="black">1) pay for the lower quality healthcare with your taxes and join the plan
2) pay for the lower quality healthcare with your taxes and pay for your original healthcare plan
3) pay for the lower quality healthcare with your taxes and not join the plan

see a reoccurring theme there? Welcome to Obama's America where you get screwed no matter what you choose

P.S. This is not mentioning what government regulated healthcare prices will do to the entire healthcare industry. NJ has more pharmaceutical companies than any other state, to my knowledge.
 
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You do realize, that right now, you are paying for all those people out there that can't afford to have insurance, so they wait until it is necessary or the only option to go to the emergency room, and muddle that up. No matter what, we are all going to be paying for people who aren't contributing. It has been happening for years with the Social Security mess, and it has been happening for years with insurance. Your health coverage won't change, unless you make that decision. And as far as all of the pharma companies in Jersey, well, a little regulation probably wouldn't hurt them either. I am really tired of paying through the nose far a little purple pill, because the pharma companies won't allow a generic version.
 
jlajoie said:
You do realize, that right now, you are paying for all those people out there that can't afford to have insurance, so they wait until it is necessary or the only option to go to the emergency room, and muddle that up. No matter what, we are all going to be paying for people who aren't contributing. It has been happening for years with the Social Security mess, and it has been happening for years with insurance. Your health coverage won't change, unless you make that decision. And as far as all of the pharma companies in Jersey, well, a little regulation probably wouldn't hurt them either. I am really tired of paying through the nose far a little purple pill, because the pharma companies won't allow a generic version.
Click to expand...
\
I told you stop taking them pills bro shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

Im lucky enough to have no co-payment and only pay 5 bucks for 30 day perscriptions from my doctor.
Its free if i call it in and have them mail me a 90 day perscription.
My wife pays 5 bucks for a 90 day perscription of her prenatal vitamins.

Im lucky i know but i work hard for my bennies.
I grew up without and health care and when we did get coverage from the goverment it sucked.
Nothing like a drop of whiskey to get rid of that fever.And i wonder where i got my drinking problems from:smiley-sniffer:

I guess you cant have it all.
 
Oh, now its the pharma companies fault, huh? If you knew how much it cost, and how many years, in total it took to bring that little purple pill to market, then you wouldn't be bitching and moaning about it. And on top of that you only have a relatively short period of patent protection to turn a buck before everyone and their mother in India and China make a generic version. And no, there is not cheap way to develop drugs.

Here's the alternative. The pharma companies can stop innovating, and not come up with cures for anything.
 
Nothing to fear folks, let the government take care of and make decisions for you, why burden yourself. Obama is bringing socialism, er change, for us all:)

Recession is when your neighbor loses his/her job.

Depression is when you lose yours.

Recovery is when Obama loses his.

Saw that on a t-shirt, LMAO.
 
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100% true. The whole problem is with the pharmaceutical companies. I have friends that I went to college with, who were literally the dumbest kids I knew, who are now doing pharaceutical sales and making six figures. Its sick. Their job is to meet with doctors and convince doctors to use their products. You would think the doctors would prescribe drugs that they thought would be the best for the patient, but in reality they prescribe the ones that give them the best kick backs or whatever.

jlajoie said:
You do realize, that right now, you are paying for all those people out there that can't afford to have insurance, so they wait until it is necessary or the only option to go to the emergency room, and muddle that up. No matter what, we are all going to be paying for people who aren't contributing. It has been happening for years with the Social Security mess, and it has been happening for years with insurance. Your health coverage won't change, unless you make that decision. And as far as all of the pharma companies in Jersey, well, a little regulation probably wouldn't hurt them either. I am really tired of paying through the nose far a little purple pill, because the pharma companies won't allow a generic version.
Click to expand...
 
jlajoie said:
You do realize, that right now, you are paying for all those people out there that can't afford to have insurance, so they wait until it is necessary or the only option to go to the emergency room, and muddle that up. No matter what, we are all going to be paying for people who aren't contributing. It has been happening for years with the Social Security mess, and it has been happening for years with insurance.
Click to expand...
Good point. Furthermore, lets not forget to mention the fact that many (not all) of these uninsured who wait to the last minute for medical attention could have been treated much earlier for their symptoms if they had coverage. The actual cost would have been much cheaper for us if this premeasure was taken. Instead, they wait to things worsen and when they finally do see a specialist, the fix is a lot more out of "our" pockets because they didnt take the preventative steps from the start.
 
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Dear President Obama,[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I write to express my concern about a new White House program to monitor American citizens' speech opposing your health care policies, and to seek your assurances that this program is being carried out in a manner consistent with the First Amendment and America's tradition of free speech and public discourse.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Yesterday, in an official White House release entitled "Facts are Stubborn Things," the White House Director of New Media, Macon Phillips, asserted that there was "a lot of disinformation out there," and encouraged citizens to report "fishy" speech opposing your health care policies to the White House. Phillips specifically targeted private, unpublished, even casual speech, writing that "rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation." Phillips wrote "If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]flag@whitehouse.gov[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]." [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I am not aware of any precedent for a President asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed "fishy" or otherwise inimical to the White House's political interests. [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]By requesting that citizens send "fishy" emails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported to the White House. You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection program. As Congress debates health care reform and other critical policy matters, citizen engagement must not be chilled by fear of government monitoring the exercise of free speech rights.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House. I suspect that you would have been leading the charge in condemning such a program-and I would have been at your side denouncing such heavy-handed government action.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]So I urge you to cease this program immediately. At the very least, I request that you detail to Congress and the public the protocols that your White House is following to purge the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech. And I respectfully request an answer to the following:[/FONT]
  • [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]How do you intend to use the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech?[/FONT]
  • [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]How do you intend to notify citizens who have been reported for "fishy" speech?[/FONT]
  • [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]What action do you intend to take against citizens who have been reported for engaging in "fishy" speech? [/FONT]
  • [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Do your own past statements qualify as "disinformation"? For example, is it "disinformation" to note that in 2003 you said:"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care plan"?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I look forward to your prompt response. [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Sincerely,[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]JOHN CORNYN[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]United States Senator[/FONT]
 
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