West Branch to start spilling on Tues or Wed

[Big_Spinner]

Hi guys,

Looks like his bit of rain coming tonight and tomorrow will put the West Branch over the top!

East Branch still a couple of weeks away from spilling.

Might start to spill on Tuesday, but more likely Wednesday.

No hendricksons yet, but there have been a few blue quills around. Occasional rises, but sporadic.

Jim

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Good news on all fronts, including the lack of Hendricksons so far up your way which only began here in NJ on Thursday in earnest, and we're always a good 10 - 14 days in front of you guys on the WBD. Last week in April is what it looks like to me. Right in time for my annual onslaught of the WBA Resort when we arrive on the 30th.

 

[TR]

Hi guys,

Looks like his bit of rain coming tonight and tomorrow will put the West Branch over the top!

East Branch still a couple of weeks away from spilling.

Might start to spill on Tuesday, but more likely Wednesday.

No hendricksons yet, but there have been a few blue quills around. Occasional rises, but sporadic.

Jim

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I hope ol' Jim is right.

Down in Callicoon this afternoon the water temp hit 55 with good clarity.

Six rigs at Tower due to the fact that it was a Sunday and they couldn't float the West Branch or they didn't want to deal with the Buck stretch.

South breeze.

The only hatch was black stones and there only a handful at that.

My call about Hendos near Cally in early May doesn't look too shabby right now especially since this week in the Catskills nighttime readings will be in the 30s.

Tight lines.

 

[TR]

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My call about Hendos near Cally in early May doesn't look too shabby right now especially since this week in the Catskills nighttime readings will be in the 30s.

Tight lines.

View attachment 11605

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Good morning.

Heavier rain went to the south - Philly to NYC.

Catskills? Light showers. That's it.

See map and watch the USGS and NYC DEP charts this week.

You'll see water back in the low to mid 40s later this week.

Tight lines.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Let's face it, brain surgery is far easier than trying to figure out water temps and hatches and flows, but if the reservoirs do wind up spilling, that will increase water temps a few degrees over colder bottom releases. But it does look like most of this current rain is missing the Catskills. Only time will tell, but I like Hendos by late April still.

 

[TR]

Let's face it, brain surgery is far easier than trying to figure out water temps and hatches and flows, but if the reservoirs do wind up spilling, that will increase water temps a few degrees over colder bottom releases....

What will happen Brian is that you'll have more flow on the West Branch. As far as mix of water temps, since it is April, and the water from the bottom is 46 and the top is about the same, the mix is negliable.

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But it does look like most of this current rain is missing the Catskills. Only time will tell, but I like Hendos by late April still.

It is missing the Catskills. Look at the radar.

I like Hendos in late April too.

In New Jersey however.

Tight lines.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

It is missing the Catskills. Look at the radar.

I like Hendos in late April too.

In New Jersey however.

Which means lower water. Lower water heats up more quickly. The Hendricksons will be long over here in NJ by May one as we have seen them nearly a week now. I'm sticking with April 30th time frame for the upper D. Seldom over the last 15 years other than last year have we seen them start in May and not in April up there. And this spring is on average warmer than last.

 

[TR]

I'm sticking with April 30th time frame for the upper D. Seldom over the last 15 years other than last year have we seen them start in May and not in April up there. And this spring is on average warmer than last.

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Conditions will dictate when aquatic insects hatch and fish feed - not the other way around.

A client just called from Manahttan. It's pouring down there he said.

Not in the Catskills.

Best to read the USGS charts and radar maps - and forget about the calendar.

Empirical evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tight lines.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Conditions will dictate when aquatic insects hatch and fish feed - not the other way around.

I agree completely. And I believe that conditions will dictate late April emergence of Hendricksons. As I said, only time will tell which of us is correct

BTW, the rains are largely over here in northwest NJ. This storm stayed well east and didn't dump nearly as much rain as initially predicted. We need a lot more and soon.

 

[flyI4]

Lets also not forget that its not just about bugs but water temps. Last year- we had bugs by late april but the water temps were in the mid 40s and the fish ignored them until give or take may 10th. This year- we have good water temps, but the bugs aren't developed yet and we are seeing a lag in hatches because of no sunlight getting to the bottom until after April 1st on some stretches. We have decent water temps right now and I expect the fish to get on the bugs better and quicker than last year which is the most important part of the the early spring dry fly game. A hatch without rising fish is absolutely worthless unless u are the guy that would rather watch a bobber all day as the first mayflies of the year come off.

 

[Kendall]

You can bet your last penny that if there is a hatch on there are fish feeding some where in the water column , if they are not taking the adults they are feeding on the nymphs. I would rather fish the dry flies but if they are not feeding on the top get into the game and fish the bottom with nymphs or emergers and catch some fish.

 

[flyI4]

Definitely do-able its just not what you hit the river for after a long winter like the one we had. I am with you though and am always willing to switch up methods rather than just complain the fish aren't rising. Most people on the upper delaware just throw streamers instead which can be good- but when its not working you gotta recognize it and slow things down subsurface with a nymph rig. Sunny days especially. Streamer fishing hasn't been great up there but guys would rather throw a double sex dungeon rig all day in clear ,cold water rather than work a riffle methodically with a nymph rig. The delaware , perhaps more than any other river system I've fished, has a culture of "fish the way you want
rather than a "do what works" type of mentality. Even the guides- very few good nymphing guides on the delaware. Everyone just looks for heads because its fun and the rivers are laid out that way with a lot of flat pools and nice dry fly water.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

You can bet your last penny that if there is a hatch on there are fish feeding some where in the water column , if they are not taking the adults they are feeding on the nymphs. I would rather fish the dry flies but if they are not feeding on the top get into the game and fish the bottom with nymphs or emergers and catch some fish.

We have so much left to teach you............."if they are not feeding on the top get into the game and fish the bottom with nymphs". The correct answer would be: go home, drink Scotch, wait for surface activity, then fish (in that order).

 

[Trout Nazi]

You can bet your last penny that if there is a hatch on there are fish feeding some where in the water column , if they are not taking the adults they are feeding on the nymphs. I would rather fish the dry flies but if they are not feeding on the top get into the game and fish the bottom with nymphs or emergers and catch some fish.

Word from the captain.

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Guys,

WB is creeping up to full. NYC DEP is actually doing something unusual, but it makes perfect sense. They ramped up the directed release to the city from Cannonsville to about 500 million gallons a day. This is allowing the other two reservoirs to continue to fill and is delaying the spilling (wasting) of water from Cannonsville. The quality of Cannonsville water is improving and approaching the value of Pepacton, this allows them to use WB water in the spring for water supply. This should allow the total storage in the three reservoirs to become maximal as we head into the summer season. This is good for NYC and the rivers.

I do take issue with some of the manipulations that NYC DEP continues to do without questioning by the other decree parties. But that is a story for another day.

 

[Future Fanatic]

Alright...
It's Friday...
Will it start spilling today?

We were told that the snowpack was going to have it spilling... "Trust me..."
Then Tuesday-Wednesday...

Nearly three inches of rain this month...

It's close to the top...

But, will it be today?

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Alright...
It's Friday...
Will it start spilling today?

We were told that the snowpack was going to have it spilling... "Trust me..."
Then Tuesday-Wednesday...

Nearly three inches of rain this month...

It's close to the top...

But, will it be today?

You guys never got the big rains on Monday as they slid east. Even here in NJ, we didn't get near as much as first predicted. Right now I care more about temps than flows, but purely for selfish reasons. After my trip, I'll care more about flows.......

I'm just looking for this by next Thursday:

 

[FIN-ITE 34]

I'm just looking for this by next Thursday:

A midge hatch?

 

[JOE.T]

Alright...
It's Friday...
Will it start spilling today?

We were told that the snowpack was going to have it spilling... "Trust me..."
Then Tuesday-Wednesday...

Nearly three inches of rain this month...

It's close to the top...

But, will it be today?

It should spill sometime late today ,overnight into Saturday for sure.

 

[JOE.T]

Hi Guys,

WB is creeping up to full. NYC DEP is actually doing something unusual, but it makes perfect sense. They ramped up the directed release to the city from Cannonsville to about 500 million gallons a day. This is allowing the other two reservoirs to continue to fill and is delaying the spilling (wasting) of water from Cannonsville. The quality of Cannonsville water is improving and approaching the value of Pepacton, this allows them to use WB water in the spring for water supply. This should allow the total storage in the three reservoirs to become maximal as we head into the summer season. This is good for NYC and the rivers.

I do take issue with some of the manipulations that NYC DEP continues to do without questioning by the other decree parties. But that is a story for another day.

Jim your saying that the DEP is drawing down or diverting 500 MGD from Cannonsville to Rondout ? Where are you getting that number from?

The DEP site shows 48MGD being diverted to the Rondout, and its been at that number for weeks now, actually it bumped up from 32MGD

Current Releases


Do you have another site you look at? Or are you referring to some other diversion or release?


Thanks

JOE.T

 

[Rusty Spinner]

A midge hatch?

You're not looking closely enough. I see three tails and the tell-tale gray wing of the Subvaria on his incisors.

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Joe,

The 48 mgd you are referring to is the release to the river, not the diversion to NYC.

If you go to the USGS Rivermaster website you can get this report.

The releases are listed as well as the diversions to NYC. The latest diversion shown is 482 mgd and all of it is from Cannonsville.

Jim

 

[Rusty Spinner]

The Croton system will be online in three short weeks. Let's all see what type of game changer that might be for the upper D flows moving forward.

 

[brachycentrus]

Jim,
When they, NYDEP, shutoff the diversion to NYC in order to do the tunnel repairs, they plan on using water from Croton to make up for it, the way I understand it anyway. What will happen to the river releases ? Will the releases be what is called for in the FFMP or are they trying to negotiate shutting or lowering river releases too ? They plan on shutting off the NYC diversions and using the new bypass tunnels to access the main tunnel down in Newburg, but they are going to use Croton water in it's place.
Water that they insisted that the quality wasnt good enough, now to serve their needs, it is good enough ?
Garth Pettinger had that great presentation using the Croton water, maybe after all these repairs, it will prove his point.

 

[NJFred]

Cannonsville started spilling yesterday. Can someone help me understand the crappy releases even as we hit 90% capacity 2 or three weeks ago? Can someone direct me to the current release plan? Thanks. Lost track of the latest plan. I do above read that they are taking almost 500 MGD out of Cannonsiville. Spill will be tiny and won't last long. :crap: At least the Rangers are into the second round.

Any thoughts what happens to the release May 1?

 

[TR]

Cannonsville started spilling yesterday...

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Good morning.


Water only reached 46 degrees by 6:00pm on the Main Stem near Callicoon yesterday.

Floated Callicoon to Damascus from 2 to 6:30pm. Clarity and levels were good.

Bright sun. Slight N breeze.

Hatches: Minimal. Some EBS and BQ.
No heads.


Should start getting better for heads later this week.


By the way, as far as WB and FFMP:


From Al Caucci Fly Fishing


"400cfs-700cfs - Great wading and floating along the entire river.
The whole river stays cool and usually fishes nicely.
Look for active fish throughout the river system."


Current:


USGS - 4/26/15 and Cannonsville at 100%:


Hale Eddy is currently at 460cfs.


That's FFMP - with the reservoir spilling.


No rain forecast this week so if you're your floating, Main Stem will be your best choice especially for One Bug this weekend.


And so it goes...

 

[Rusty Spinner]

No rain forecast this week so if you're your floating, Main Stem will be your best choice especially for One Bug this weekend.

Not to mention that hatches start low in a river and work upstream. I think the main will be on fire by the next weekend. The sun on lower, slower moving water will only help warm up the rivers. It's going strong here in NJ right now with Hendricksons, various caddis, a few remaining egg laying stones, and some Quill Gordons with the odd Blue quills mixed in. Has been for over a week. Yesterday was an excellent day for NJ hatches which aren't anywhere near the hatches that the Catskills see.

 

[NJFred]

So I still don't understand the release schedule. I've fished the system for well over 20 years and every time I think I understand it it's changed.

I did find a doc that appears to set out the release schedule. From what I can tell, NYC can more than significantly impact the release regardless of system or specific reservoir fill based upon some sort of Forecast-based available water (FAW). Therefore NYC can screw the fishery has they have done so in the later part of April even with a fill of Cannonsville in excess of 95%. I don't get it. Releases under 100 CFS in April is criminal with filling over 95%.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Releases under 100 CFS in April is criminal with filling over 95%.

Only a big issue when water temps are too warm. So far, that's a non-issue this spring. NY City has less than zero interest in a trout fishery. For them, it's all about protecting the most important city on the planet from the drought of record which they treat as will begin today (and any other day). I know the tremendous work put in to protect this great fishery and many of those that are doing that great work and I applaud each and every one including several who post here. But I think our collective best bet will be Croton coming online over the next few weeks, and how that will make more available water for thermal relief and for general aquatic habitat improvement (keeping the bugs covered with flowing water which fuels the trout and the rest of the ecosystem). Over time, NJ DEP will demand more and more water from the river to get to the central section of the state where our future growth will occur with development and where water will need to come from the river more than from ground water. If/when that happens, it will mean more coldwater releases from the reservoirs.

 

[TR]

So I still don't understand the release schedule. I've fished the system for well over 20 years and every time I think I understand it it's changed.

I did find a doc that appears to set out the release schedule. From what I can tell, NYC can more than significantly impact the release regardless of system or specific reservoir fill based upon some sort of Forecast-based available water (FAW). Therefore NYC can screw the fishery has they have done so in the later part of April even with a fill of Cannonsville in excess of 95%. I don't get it. Releases under 100 CFS in April is criminal with filling over 95%.

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Fred, my man.

NYC DEP (Murphy, et al.) wants full reservoirs at 100% by June 1.

No ifs, and or buts.

If they spill - great - but they want 'em full by June 1st of each year

See chart: