Have been reading lately while waiting my next chance to get out[hopefully next week if the temps. don't soar too much] that casting nymphs into the subsurface film is a more productive tactic than laying dries onto the water. The legendary Joe Humphreys is one who preached it. A lot of fishermen see activity on the surface and immediately start flinging the dries, when in actuality the activity was from the fishes fins while they were rolling under the surface and taking rising nymphs. Just curious to our panels feelings on this and what patterns apply. I'm still on the learning curve and always looking for opinions.
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Subsurface nymphing
- Thread starter sonny
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McAwful
Get some..
Sonny,
This is where knowing your bugs pays off. Nymphs and emergers for different mayfly, caddis, stoneflies etc. all have their own behaviors.
Two examples:
1.An Isonychia bicolor is an excellent swimmer. So you do not want to dead drift the nymph in the film or subsurface. The emerger stage gets to the shore and hatches there for one brood, but will hatch mid-current for another. Bad choice for a floating nymph.
2.The Ephemerella cornuta is a crawling nymph. It wiggles to the surface in slower water to hatch. This is a good choice for the floating nymph game.
Study your bugs!
McA
This is where knowing your bugs pays off. Nymphs and emergers for different mayfly, caddis, stoneflies etc. all have their own behaviors.
Two examples:
1.An Isonychia bicolor is an excellent swimmer. So you do not want to dead drift the nymph in the film or subsurface. The emerger stage gets to the shore and hatches there for one brood, but will hatch mid-current for another. Bad choice for a floating nymph.
2.The Ephemerella cornuta is a crawling nymph. It wiggles to the surface in slower water to hatch. This is a good choice for the floating nymph game.
Study your bugs!
McA
And know your rise forms. Just because you see a ring on the surface doesnt mean the fish is feeding on the surface. More times than not the rings are from either a dorsal/tail rise or a in the film rise. Unless you see a lip your better off sinking your ship.
yea, there was a mixture of this going on at the gorge all day today. alot of rises, though very few hook ups. my friend caught a couple, and i hooked into a really nice brown on a caddis.
HOWEVER> most of the time, they were feeding just under the film on emergers. it was frustrating at first, but once you get the habits down, you get the fly down, you get the fish on.
on this topic, and studying bugs, what is some rec'd literature to study up on. i'm not a seasoned entomologist, just the basics. but today was a classic example of sub film feeding, and people getting their dry's out to no avail. under these circumstances, how do you know what type of emerger they are feeding on? by relating to the hatch charts and dry's flying around. the old 1 +1 method.
HOWEVER> most of the time, they were feeding just under the film on emergers. it was frustrating at first, but once you get the habits down, you get the fly down, you get the fish on.
on this topic, and studying bugs, what is some rec'd literature to study up on. i'm not a seasoned entomologist, just the basics. but today was a classic example of sub film feeding, and people getting their dry's out to no avail. under these circumstances, how do you know what type of emerger they are feeding on? by relating to the hatch charts and dry's flying around. the old 1 +1 method.
The_Sib
Learning Latin
Second that for Hatches II
Will have to check out that Flick book
Also Caddisflies by Gary LaFontaine
Nymphing by Dave Hughes isn't bad either
Then, of course, there are Joe Humphreys' books ( & DVDs )
thank you. i'll be picking up a couple of these titles with my next borders or powells order. i'm starting with hatches II.
i've got some college experience studying fishery biologies at the university i went too *even though i was an english/ creative writing major*
so i wouldnt say i'm a novice. but i'm no master by a long stretch. hopefully these will just add to my knowledge. thx fellas
i've got some college experience studying fishery biologies at the university i went too *even though i was an english/ creative writing major*
so i wouldnt say i'm a novice. but i'm no master by a long stretch. hopefully these will just add to my knowledge. thx fellas
Mike Ridolfino
Wild trout stalker
You're always good for a laugh AK!
I'll third Hatches II, its a must have for any serious fly fisher.
I'll third Hatches II, its a must have for any serious fly fisher.
quality time
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Being that Hatches II is no quick read, try a three step process the next time you get into this situation....later, with a better understanding of the differences between nymphs you will be able to quickly react successfully without switching flies so often....this approach should get you started in the mean time.
For Mayflies, if you are using bushy Catskill style dry ties and not getting any takers, first try switching to something without hackle that provides a lower profile to the water. A more imitative style fly such as a Comparadun might do the trick, especially on calm water. If that still doesn't work, you can try going to a Compara-emerger as a second move. These flys are similar to Comparaduns, but have Z-lon or a similar material for the tail that imitates the nymph shell, and the front part of the fly represents the emerging dun unfolding its wings. If these styles don't work you can try an unweighted nymph in the film (or just below it) as a potential third style. I really like anything with CDC in it for this purpose....CDC loop wing emergers are one of my favorite patterns.
Sometimes you can try more than one of these techniques at once. One thing I routinely do is put an unweighted nymph dropper off the hook bend on a Catskill dry. A combination I have had a lot of success with is a BWO, with an unweighted PT nymph fished on a dropper a foot or so off of the hook bend.
Good luck!
QT
For Mayflies, if you are using bushy Catskill style dry ties and not getting any takers, first try switching to something without hackle that provides a lower profile to the water. A more imitative style fly such as a Comparadun might do the trick, especially on calm water. If that still doesn't work, you can try going to a Compara-emerger as a second move. These flys are similar to Comparaduns, but have Z-lon or a similar material for the tail that imitates the nymph shell, and the front part of the fly represents the emerging dun unfolding its wings. If these styles don't work you can try an unweighted nymph in the film (or just below it) as a potential third style. I really like anything with CDC in it for this purpose....CDC loop wing emergers are one of my favorite patterns.
Sometimes you can try more than one of these techniques at once. One thing I routinely do is put an unweighted nymph dropper off the hook bend on a Catskill dry. A combination I have had a lot of success with is a BWO, with an unweighted PT nymph fished on a dropper a foot or so off of the hook bend.
Good luck!
QT
A simple thing is to just carry some unweighted hare's ear and flashback pheasant tails in roughly the same sizes as the dries you carry. Tie these about on a foot (more or less) dropper off the bend of the dry fly you are using if the dry fly isn't working. That's a simple way to start getting into the under the surface fishing.
you are right about art flicks book also tom ames has the same type of book and it even shows pictures of the appropriate matches for each insect. he takes great pictures as well. hatches 2 is the ultimate for anyone serious about learning their mayflies. this is a book that any eastern fly fisherman should have memorized
about your original question.... if there are mayflies on the water (with the exception of isonychia... which are easy to rocognize because of shape and color) a pheasant tail in the appropriate size dropped off of a dry fly with about 12 inches of flourocarbon tippet should do fine. if there are isos and the fish are not taking the duns. try stripping the nymph with one inch pulls right under the surface or try a wet fly like a leadwing coachman.
also like what was said before look are the rise forms. see if there is a mouth actually coming out of the water. most of the time you will see only fins. this indicates that a fish is feeding on emerging nymphs.
hope this helps.
about your original question.... if there are mayflies on the water (with the exception of isonychia... which are easy to rocognize because of shape and color) a pheasant tail in the appropriate size dropped off of a dry fly with about 12 inches of flourocarbon tippet should do fine. if there are isos and the fish are not taking the duns. try stripping the nymph with one inch pulls right under the surface or try a wet fly like a leadwing coachman.also like what was said before look are the rise forms. see if there is a mouth actually coming out of the water. most of the time you will see only fins. this indicates that a fish is feeding on emerging nymphs.
hope this helps.
