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Soft hackle wets
- Thread starter fcch
- Start date
jcstikfish
NJ Nymph Guy
A resounding YES!
Oh Man,
Not an outing goes but where I don't have a soft hackle on in some form. I like to put a partridge collar on a lot of nymphs that don't traditionally call for it. I think the action of a soft hackle is tough to beat when you want a subsurface fly to look alive. One of my favorites is a caddis larvae with a collar, took about 15 trout yesterday in 4 hours ,mostly on this fly.
Long live the soft hackle!!
~James
Oh Man,
Not an outing goes but where I don't have a soft hackle on in some form. I like to put a partridge collar on a lot of nymphs that don't traditionally call for it. I think the action of a soft hackle is tough to beat when you want a subsurface fly to look alive. One of my favorites is a caddis larvae with a collar, took about 15 trout yesterday in 4 hours ,mostly on this fly.
Long live the soft hackle!!
~James
fcch
Salmo salar addict
James,
I had read a tad about them but never gave it a thought for many years. A Kamloops Rainbow is a vicious animal and I wasn't too accomplished back then.
Going after lunker sea run trout here, you see how picky a fish gets. (ever fish for a trout where there is NO hatch and the fish doesn't eat for the summer ??)
I started realizing that I get some good takes when me dry wouldn't float anymore.
Got me to thinking about the book be Nemes and I gave it a shot, ... never looked back.
I had read a tad about them but never gave it a thought for many years. A Kamloops Rainbow is a vicious animal and I wasn't too accomplished back then.
Going after lunker sea run trout here, you see how picky a fish gets. (ever fish for a trout where there is NO hatch and the fish doesn't eat for the summer ??)
I started realizing that I get some good takes when me dry wouldn't float anymore.
Got me to thinking about the book be Nemes and I gave it a shot, ... never looked back.
Soft hackle wet flies. These are truly works of art that are easy to tie, extremely affective and catch a very good amount of fish. When I think Soft hackles I do not think of Sylvestor Nemes. I really think about Skues and his Amarican counter part Liesenring. Now far as traditional wing wet flies, keep in mind most of the patterns in the 1800's like Greenwells Glory, Captain, Grizzly King were tied with full collars. When these flies over time started to migrate to America the full collar for some reason was lost and the beard/false hackle came about. Moving forward, Harry Darbee tied all his Traditional winged wets with a full collar hackle. Harry felt this full collared hackle added more movement to the wet fly under water giving it a more life like appearance. Now depending what I am tying meaning keeping the Traditional Bergman look or tying flies I fish with will get me to use a beard/false Hackle or a full collered hackle. One of my favorite wet flies the Captain I tie with a full collered hackle. This fly gets great results on the beverkill. Now you know the rest of the story.
Andy B
Andy B
jcstikfish
NJ Nymph Guy
Sea Trout Question
Chris,
When you say sea trout, are you speaking of sea run brook trout? They don't eat when they enter a river?? huh? Never knew that. If you were speaking of Atlantics I understand. But, fill me in on the sea trout behavior. I fished Nova Scotia a few years ago for the sea run brooks but didn't have that piece of info in my brain.
Thanks,
James
fcch said:Going after lunker sea run trout here, you see how picky a fish gets. (ever fish for a trout where there is NO hatch and the fish doesn't eat for the summer ??)
Chris,
When you say sea trout, are you speaking of sea run brook trout? They don't eat when they enter a river?? huh? Never knew that. If you were speaking of Atlantics I understand. But, fill me in on the sea trout behavior. I fished Nova Scotia a few years ago for the sea run brooks but didn't have that piece of info in my brain.
Thanks,
James
fcch
Salmo salar addict
James,
Yup, ... I fish almost exclusively on an Atlantic Salmon river:
http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/homewaters/RvSteMarguerite.html
We have Salmo salar and sea run brook trout.
Adult Anadromous brooks act exactly like their Salmo cousins. They don't come into the fresh water to eat, they come here 'cause there are prime spawning beds. In fact, the river here is relatively POOR in terms of feeding habitat. No real hatches, very little aquatic micro faune.
An adult sea run brooky will come into the river in mid summer (between mid June 'til late July, though most have arrived in the second week of July).
Once there, they will lurk about in shelter lies, deep pools, slow current. As the current is not strong in the holding pools, they will usually school up and you can have litterally dozens and dozens of lunkers holding off a shelf, in the lip or tailouts. They'll often be holding near the salmon as the beds are in similar stretches of the river. They hold upstream or downstream of beds.
Not eating in fresh water, a nice 6lb hen will lose over 50% of her weight over the summer. Though they don't eat, they seem to be more curious than the salmon and will inspect flies, sometimes moving 10-20 ft to come see a new offering only to slide back to their station.
They do exhibit SOME feeding behaviour and come out on occasion into seams and "normal" prime lies taking dead drifting anythings.
Brookies have a reputation for "dumb" behaviour and taking any fly, ... Not always true. (ask my girlfriend):
http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/why_we_fish_ii.htm
Sea run brookies here (and not in all rivers) have their equivelant to Grisles too. In late August, the juveniles come into the fresh water too. Apparently, the fjord is too cold in winter (water often BELOW freezing). These critters come in in schools of hundreds (and in '98 ... thousands). They EAT taking anything that is offered (depending on the conditions).
Sound fun ??
Yup, ... I fish almost exclusively on an Atlantic Salmon river:
http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/homewaters/RvSteMarguerite.html
We have Salmo salar and sea run brook trout.
Adult Anadromous brooks act exactly like their Salmo cousins. They don't come into the fresh water to eat, they come here 'cause there are prime spawning beds. In fact, the river here is relatively POOR in terms of feeding habitat. No real hatches, very little aquatic micro faune.
An adult sea run brooky will come into the river in mid summer (between mid June 'til late July, though most have arrived in the second week of July).
Once there, they will lurk about in shelter lies, deep pools, slow current. As the current is not strong in the holding pools, they will usually school up and you can have litterally dozens and dozens of lunkers holding off a shelf, in the lip or tailouts. They'll often be holding near the salmon as the beds are in similar stretches of the river. They hold upstream or downstream of beds.
Not eating in fresh water, a nice 6lb hen will lose over 50% of her weight over the summer. Though they don't eat, they seem to be more curious than the salmon and will inspect flies, sometimes moving 10-20 ft to come see a new offering only to slide back to their station.
They do exhibit SOME feeding behaviour and come out on occasion into seams and "normal" prime lies taking dead drifting anythings.
Brookies have a reputation for "dumb" behaviour and taking any fly, ... Not always true. (ask my girlfriend):
http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/why_we_fish_ii.htm
Sea run brookies here (and not in all rivers) have their equivelant to Grisles too. In late August, the juveniles come into the fresh water too. Apparently, the fjord is too cold in winter (water often BELOW freezing). These critters come in in schools of hundreds (and in '98 ... thousands). They EAT taking anything that is offered (depending on the conditions).
Sound fun ??
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redietz
Bob Dietz
I almost always fish soft hackles. Even if I'm fishing a dry, there's usually a soft hackle hanging below it.
There are no flies which are as versitile; I can put floatant on them and fish them dry, I can fish them just under the surface (no emerger is better) and I can even fish them on bottom as nymphs. In the last year, I've caught brookies, browns, rainbows, landlocked salmon, smallmouths, and a number of species of sunfish on just a partridge and orange. (And I hardly stop there.)
Even though I answered "My real name is Sylvester Nemes" the real authorities were T.E. Pritt (North Country Flies) and Edmonds and Lee (Brook and River Trouting). (Aka the Old Testament and the New Testament, respectively.)
Kudos to Nemes, though, for repopularizing them.
There are no flies which are as versitile; I can put floatant on them and fish them dry, I can fish them just under the surface (no emerger is better) and I can even fish them on bottom as nymphs. In the last year, I've caught brookies, browns, rainbows, landlocked salmon, smallmouths, and a number of species of sunfish on just a partridge and orange. (And I hardly stop there.)
Even though I answered "My real name is Sylvester Nemes" the real authorities were T.E. Pritt (North Country Flies) and Edmonds and Lee (Brook and River Trouting). (Aka the Old Testament and the New Testament, respectively.)
Kudos to Nemes, though, for repopularizing them.
charlieincambridge
New member
They are as good a searching pattern as I've found. I love partridge and peacocks with /without beadheads anytime caddis are present in a river. Partridge and yellows are my go to sulfur emerger. There's more, far more, to them, that's just scratching the surface.
Charlie
Charlie
jcstikfish
NJ Nymph Guy
Drossi
If they can't take joke .....'em
Classics don't get to be classics for no good reason......much as we like to think that each new pattern re-invented flyfishing, one could still fish old school patterns effectively today. The leadwing coachman for example.
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Using classic flies to score nice fish reminds me of golf and all of its innovations. Fly fisherman have invented countless patterns most of which don't catch any more fish than the classics. And in golf, despite all of the innovations in club style, shaft design and material, ball construction and work out routine, scores have changed very little over the last 70 years. for example. The following is a list of Masters scores: in 1942 Byron Nelson Tied Ben Hogan at -8 after 72 holes, in 1952 Sam Snead won with a -2. In 1962 Arnold Palmer won with an -8. In 1972 jack nicklaus won with a -2. In 1982 Craig Stadler won with a -4. In 1992 Fred Couples won with a -13. In 2002 Tiger Woods won with a -12. Despite playing the same course with countless innovations to their equipment and training regiments scores over the last 70 years are nearly unchanged, i feel the same regarding fly fishing, the equipment and tackle may have changed but has not significantly effected the sport.
Far as the fly's go's I believe you have hit the nail on the head. Now far as the rods I differ just a little. Todays rods are ligher, stronger, enable far cast's and now can match various casting styles and needs, meaing some casters truly need a fast action rod and guys like me are more into the medium to medium fast range. Now yes like Golf it is still up to the individual to get the maximum perforformance out of the equipment. Some people always do, others don't and some just once in awhile. Lastly just think of the weight of todays rods vs yester years. Much lighter, less fatigue.
Now look at fly lines. in the old days you had to stop fishing after a spell to allow the silk line to dry out. Today thats not the case. Clean the line add some line floatant and your good to go all day long.
Now far as flies, that is why I am a throw back, all I fish with is classic winged wets, some classic hackle wet flies and of course classic streamers. The most modern I get now a days is a Woolly Bugger and once in a blue moon an emerger. Nice post Trouser Trout
Now look at fly lines. in the old days you had to stop fishing after a spell to allow the silk line to dry out. Today thats not the case. Clean the line add some line floatant and your good to go all day long.
Now far as flies, that is why I am a throw back, all I fish with is classic winged wets, some classic hackle wet flies and of course classic streamers. The most modern I get now a days is a Woolly Bugger and once in a blue moon an emerger. Nice post Trouser Trout
Eagle Claw
Trout Hunter
I know a kid who just started tying and just created some weird spider looking things in various colors and experienced were watching him catch fish and asking what are you using. He fished them in the film and on the bottom and was catching nice fish one after another. Color did not seem to matter so it must have been the action. He was even using drys like nymphs and having success.
redietz
Bob Dietz
I'm not sure that I agree with that. Yes, they're lighter, but need to be cast with a faster stroke. I find that a day on the water with a graphite rod leaves my shoulders sore; a day with a cane rod, not at all.
That changes as rods get longer, of course. I don't think I'd want to use a 10' cane rod. Then again, I seldom use a 10' graphite rod, either, because of the fatigue issue; I pretty sure I couldn't use one two days in a row.
I don't cast silk lines because of the cost, but I know a number of people who swear by them. (One of the advantages of a double taper was that it could be turned around when one end got waterlogged after a half a day or so of fishing.)
About the only "modern" thing that I think you'll find universal agreement about being better than in the old days is that nylon leaders are far superior to gut.
Soft-hackle
Wet fly fisherman.
Greetings,
Many of those that have posted, here will recognize my screen name immediately. Yes, I fish the wingless wet fly quite a bit. They have actually become my staple in my fly selection.
Do I fish other flies? Yes, sometime, however I find these flies so productive and versatile it's hard not to use them consistently. I don't consider them easy to tie. Like a good dry fly, they need to be well proportioned and tied in a manner that lends to their versatility. They can be dressed very sparsely, which is traditional, or with a slightly heavier collar which is somewhat more American in nature.
You can dress them so the hackle stands more perpendicular to the hook shank, which again is more traditional, or slightly swept back more wet-fly style. You can also vary the stiffness of the hackle to fit the water speed. Fish them up river, down river, on the swing, from bottom to top, in or just below the film.
If you don't fish wingless wets, you are missing something.
Mark
Many of those that have posted, here will recognize my screen name immediately. Yes, I fish the wingless wet fly quite a bit. They have actually become my staple in my fly selection.
Do I fish other flies? Yes, sometime, however I find these flies so productive and versatile it's hard not to use them consistently. I don't consider them easy to tie. Like a good dry fly, they need to be well proportioned and tied in a manner that lends to their versatility. They can be dressed very sparsely, which is traditional, or with a slightly heavier collar which is somewhat more American in nature.
You can dress them so the hackle stands more perpendicular to the hook shank, which again is more traditional, or slightly swept back more wet-fly style. You can also vary the stiffness of the hackle to fit the water speed. Fish them up river, down river, on the swing, from bottom to top, in or just below the film.
If you don't fish wingless wets, you are missing something.
Mark
The_Sib
Learning Latin
I agree.
I certainly did NOT miss that 2 1/2 foot Northern Water Snake that I hooked at the Gorge on 5/2 - taken on a Partridge & Orange
Fun ( not )
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Excellent post, it reafirms the concept in my case that , the more you learn about somethings the more you realize that you don't know.
Mark is my counter part far as soft hackle wet flies and wet fly fishing goes. This man knows how to tye soft hackles and flymphs but more importantly knows how to fish them and can tell you the history on them as well. Mark is a true artist of soft hackles and flymphs and is always will to share his knowlege if you ask.
Soft-hackle
Wet fly fisherman.
Andy,
I think if you spoke to some more wet fly guys you might find the majority is in favor of the more moderate action than is available, today. It is very difficult to find rods like this, and I often wonder if glass is not a better choice.
Mark
I think if you spoke to some more wet fly guys you might find the majority is in favor of the more moderate action than is available, today. It is very difficult to find rods like this, and I often wonder if glass is not a better choice.
Mark
I'm a fish everything, but big colorful soft hackles early in the year and tiny starling and dark bodied soft hackles when BWOs are out are regulars. Add in a Leadwing Coachman when the Isos are out, traditional caddis in May, and the odd day of fishing oldies and I do my share of wet fly fishing.
I like long rods, so go to graphite a fair amount. Really like the Greys 10' 3 wt Streamflex - feels really light in hand. Got an expensive St Croix SCIV 10' 5 wt blank, but it is way too stiff for my tastes (as are many of the high priced ones). Have built 5 10' rods over the last 10 years and the Greys is better than the ones I made at about the same price.
The long cane wet fly rods are all over the map. A surprisingly light one is a 9 1/2' Heddon from the 1920s. Have a 10' FE Thomas wet fly rod, which has a great action but weighs a ton. Some of those old pre 1900 wet fly rods of 10' to 11' in length are buggy whip soft, but actually handle a pair of wets better than us modern guys would think. One issue with the old 10' cane rods is they often only have a 4 1/2" to 5" grip!!! The old wooden wet fly rods of lancewood, greenheart, and snakewood (nothing looks better than a snakewood rod) aren't really all that different from the early cane rods. I like the rods of the 1890s for my retro moods. It was a time of revolution in fly fishing when there are rods of all sorts of actions.
I've also grown fond of fiberglass - a softer material that is tougher and more consistent than cane IMHO. Glass seems to reach its peak in rods about 7 1/2' to 8 1/2' in length in weights from 5 to 7. Using a slightly heavier line gives a real control to the line IMHO and most glass guys think the light line trend has gone too far. Longer rods in glass are heavy beasts. I like the classic rods from the 1960's by Phillipson (strong on 6 wts), Berkley Parametrics, Harnell, Cortland, and Fenwick (dozens of options with Fenwick). The late 60's to the early 70's just before the advent of graphite was the golden age of glass. Those softer rods handle multiple fly rigs nicely and the price of old glass rods is a real bargain. However, one can make a sound argument that the best glass rods are being made today by the likes of Steffen, McFarland, Paddock, Kenney, etc. The custom makers of glass rods today are very good. Their prices are higher than old glass, but much cheaper than high end graphite rods. Glass is a good option for a wet fly guy, but not if you must have a longer rod.
I like long rods, so go to graphite a fair amount. Really like the Greys 10' 3 wt Streamflex - feels really light in hand. Got an expensive St Croix SCIV 10' 5 wt blank, but it is way too stiff for my tastes (as are many of the high priced ones). Have built 5 10' rods over the last 10 years and the Greys is better than the ones I made at about the same price.
The long cane wet fly rods are all over the map. A surprisingly light one is a 9 1/2' Heddon from the 1920s. Have a 10' FE Thomas wet fly rod, which has a great action but weighs a ton. Some of those old pre 1900 wet fly rods of 10' to 11' in length are buggy whip soft, but actually handle a pair of wets better than us modern guys would think. One issue with the old 10' cane rods is they often only have a 4 1/2" to 5" grip!!! The old wooden wet fly rods of lancewood, greenheart, and snakewood (nothing looks better than a snakewood rod) aren't really all that different from the early cane rods. I like the rods of the 1890s for my retro moods. It was a time of revolution in fly fishing when there are rods of all sorts of actions.
I've also grown fond of fiberglass - a softer material that is tougher and more consistent than cane IMHO. Glass seems to reach its peak in rods about 7 1/2' to 8 1/2' in length in weights from 5 to 7. Using a slightly heavier line gives a real control to the line IMHO and most glass guys think the light line trend has gone too far. Longer rods in glass are heavy beasts. I like the classic rods from the 1960's by Phillipson (strong on 6 wts), Berkley Parametrics, Harnell, Cortland, and Fenwick (dozens of options with Fenwick). The late 60's to the early 70's just before the advent of graphite was the golden age of glass. Those softer rods handle multiple fly rigs nicely and the price of old glass rods is a real bargain. However, one can make a sound argument that the best glass rods are being made today by the likes of Steffen, McFarland, Paddock, Kenney, etc. The custom makers of glass rods today are very good. Their prices are higher than old glass, but much cheaper than high end graphite rods. Glass is a good option for a wet fly guy, but not if you must have a longer rod.
NJpatbee
Can be found on NJ/NY/PA waters!
I haven't fished any of the newer glass rods, but can add that some of the newer graphite full or medium flex rods work great for the wet fly.
For whatever reason, I never did great with winged wets (I am sure it was my technique) but I have had some banner outings with the wingless soft-hackle. Today, soft-hackles are the only wets that I tie and carry, and they are a key part of my arsenal. I do fish nymphs and dries more often, but the soft hackle wets are sometimes the fly I start with and not just a fallback pattern when nothing else works (for me its streamers). I prefer the thoraxed Partridge and Orange and Tups sizes 14-18, and carry about 7-8 soft-hackle patterns in a few sizes. I found that once I established my techniques for wrapping different sized soft-hackles and understood the proportions, I could tie then fairly easily. Since there are times when they have been so effective for me, I find it surprising that more fly-fishers haven't adopted them.
For whatever reason, I never did great with winged wets (I am sure it was my technique) but I have had some banner outings with the wingless soft-hackle. Today, soft-hackles are the only wets that I tie and carry, and they are a key part of my arsenal. I do fish nymphs and dries more often, but the soft hackle wets are sometimes the fly I start with and not just a fallback pattern when nothing else works (for me its streamers). I prefer the thoraxed Partridge and Orange and Tups sizes 14-18, and carry about 7-8 soft-hackle patterns in a few sizes. I found that once I established my techniques for wrapping different sized soft-hackles and understood the proportions, I could tie then fairly easily. Since there are times when they have been so effective for me, I find it surprising that more fly-fishers haven't adopted them.
Ausable10
All I want is a 24 inch brown!!!
I don't understand why more people don't fish soft hackles? At least for me, they are proven fish catchers. I fish all mine down and across and have caught some really nice fish. The patterns that do best for me are Partridge & Orange or Grouse & Purple. I stumbled upon these by accident a few years ago up in Lake Placid. The owner of an outfitters up there recommended I try the P & O. He said his guides were catching fairly well on that pattern. I bought a few, tied one on at my first stop on the river, and I've been using them ever since. Give them a shot...they work (and are not too difficult to fish)
Ken
Ken
jcstikfish
NJ Nymph Guy
I have asked the same question for years. My theory is that they are not a "new" fly with a "cool" name, which is what drives many patterns to get fished and in turn become popular. They also don't occupy a lot of space in the retail fly market and they are not tied with a new construction technique, equipment or synthetic material.(in their most basic/classic form)
Lucky for those that do fish soft-hackles, none of the above listed reasons play any roll in consistently catching fish . Which they do, period.
~James
Soft Hackles and flymphs are my main stays. I fish them up & across mostly. I tye a boat load of them for a few friends and a couple dedicated customers.
I use the soft hackle or flymph theme for 90% of my hatch matching. the rest of the time I like to use more traditional streamers.
Also, I use glass rods for these flies.
I use the soft hackle or flymph theme for 90% of my hatch matching. the rest of the time I like to use more traditional streamers.
Also, I use glass rods for these flies.
SneakyPete
Steve
Love fishing soft hackle flies... Just started tying/ fishing them this year and had great success in small sizes #18-#20 when I used it as a dropper when fishing three flies at once..The three patterns that work great for me on NJ rivers are Partridge & Yellow, March Brown Spider, and the Starling & Herl....
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Hi sneakyPete:
You can fish those wets a little larger if you care to with the same success. There are so many very good looking and highly affective soft hackled wet flies to work with. Mark Libertone is a very good person to talk to about this subject. He is an extremely good soft hackled wet fly tyer that knows the history on the flies and how to fish and tye them. Glad to hear you are enjoying the other side of wet fly fishing.
You can fish those wets a little larger if you care to with the same success. There are so many very good looking and highly affective soft hackled wet flies to work with. Mark Libertone is a very good person to talk to about this subject. He is an extremely good soft hackled wet fly tyer that knows the history on the flies and how to fish and tye them. Glad to hear you are enjoying the other side of wet fly fishing.
