question on leaders

[kindanewbie77]

So I have a 9 foot 5 weight and i usually tie my own leaders. 15 or 20 pound mono to the fly line with nail knot, the 10 lb to the 15 with a surgeons knot, followed by 4 lb to the 10, and so on and so forth. My question, given my rod length.....IN MY BEST BEAVIS AND BUTTHEAD VOICE....HE SAID ROD LENGTH HUH HUH HUH..... what should I be looking at for a finished leader length. Right now the bulk of my fishing is accomplished by nymphing, and some small streamers, and the leader seems to be a little over 9.5 feet. I mainly ask because I am having a difficult time with my roll casts, and suspect that it might be due to the length of my leader....any ideas?

 

[bkill]

it all depends on the type of fishing and water conditions. But if you are fishing NJ streams and mostly nymphing, streamers and roll casting, you will do better with a shorter leader (7.5 feet is perfect)...Tippet size will also be based on conditions and size of your flies...If you switch to dry fly, just add a few feet of tippet material and you should be good for most NJ situations....

On larger waters like the Delaware, I use a 9-10 ft leader for nymphing and a 12 to 15 ft leader for dry fly...Again all based on conditions....Hope this helps..

 

[Pete]

You didn't mention the lengths of the various taper sections. Are they all the same?
IMHO: The typical straight taper leader is a throwback to the days of "silkworm gut" when long sections and large diameters simply weren't available.

A leader with a relatively long stiff butt section, and short transition (taper) sections, will turn over much better than most commercially available leaders.

Try one of these (from McClain's Fishing Encyclopedia):

Don't rely on "pound test", the diameter varies too much from brand to brand, get a decent micrometer, (or one of those "new fangled" dial or digital vernier calipers).

 

[kindanewbie77]

so if i understand right.....a long stiff butt, and shorter sections when transitioning in diameters should provide me with a better casting leader? I don't know if it is because it is the end of the day or what, but Pete I am having a very difficult time understanding the charts. It could aslo be the burbon from after todays foray at the BFB. If you could possibly clarify? I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[NJFred]

Pete has given you good advice. If the leader is not built correctly, right lenghts and strengths it won't turn over well.

Of course your roll cast might need a little work (like mine!).

Finally, if you are fishing different weights on those nymphs that can make it difficult to turn the line over.

Just some thoughts. Good luck to you though... a good roll cast comes in really handy on those smaller streams.

 

[Pete]

so if i understand right.....a long stiff butt, and shorter sections when transitioning in diameters should provide me with a better casting leader?

Yes
A leader should consist of approximately; 60% butt, 20% graduation, and 20% tippet.

I don't know if it is because it is the end of the day or what, but Pete I am having a very difficult time understanding the charts. It could aslo be the burbon from after todays foray at the BFB. If you could possibly clarify? I would greatly appreciate it!

I copied the charts because I thought they were easier to understand than anything I could possibly type up..

The author showed six typical nine 9 foot leaders of various tippet diameters.

He started at the top with a two piece butt section, showing the diameter and length of each section. Next a series of six inch transition sections. Finally the tippet at the bottom.

In each case he showed the diameter on the left, and the length on the right.
~~~~~~EDIT~~~~~~~~
Fred has a good point. Heavily weighted flys, or split shot, can make roll casting very difficult.

 

[onemorecast]

Yes
A leader should consist of approximately; 60% butt, 20% graduation, and 20% tippet.

Fred has a good point. Heavily weighted flys, or split shot, can make roll casting very difficult.

Thanks for that ratio - I always wondered whether a ready made leader (let's say 7.5 ft, 3X) was complete. I usually add some 4X to that specific leader, then start tying on flies.

Here's what happens to me when I roll cast weighted tandem nymph rigs, which I do all the time. I've found that the rig must have momentum. A tandem rig that's hauled in and just sits there in the water, even for a few seconds, cannot be lifted out by the fly line during the rollcast. But if it's still moving, it goes with no problem.

 

[Pete]

Thanks for that ratio - I always wondered whether a ready made leader (let's say 7.5 ft, 3X) was complete. I usually add some 4X to that specific leader, then start tying on flies......

If you insist on using "store bought" leaders, you may benefit from measuring the diameter of the butt end, and also adding a heavier section to the butt end when appropriate.

Before I started making my own, I'd often tie a semi-permanent heavy butt section to my line, use the commercial leader as a makeshift transition section, and add my own tippet. The only advantage, to offset the poor taper, was fewer knots to pick up algae & etc.

 

[kindanewbie77]

The lightbulb has come on.:thankyou: For some reason (burbon) I just couldn't see that in the charts. I can see clearly now.....hopefully I can translate this into better leader tying.

 

[flytire]

this might help your leader tying

Hyper-Compleat Principles of Leader Design - The most comprehensive tool for calculating classical and contemporary leaders - and designing your own formulas for knotted leaders - Global FlyFisher

 

[kindanewbie77]

Thanks flytire! That is a ton of info...but will definitely help!

 

[coolkyle]

When I want a quick leader tied, I bust out the 25lb Maxima Chameleon(brown) and pull from the spool about 3.5 feet. I then blood-knot 2 feet of 15lb brown line. Then I surgeon's knot some 10-lb. If I want to fish streamers I usually leave it at that. If I want dries or nymphs, I surgeon's knot on some Climax tippet, never more than 2 feet, usually 4x or 5x.

 

[kindanewbie77]

That seems pretty close to what I do now....however with the info provided above I found it pretty easy to tie an effective an very castable leader.