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NEWSFLASH: Expert: Anti-drilling claims full of hyperbole

A Groundbreaking Revelation from the reporters in Binghamton at the Press & Sun Bulletin:

Expert: Anti-drilling claims full of hyperbole | pressconnects.com | Press & Sun-Bulletin


Expert: Anti-drilling claims full of hyperbole
Meeting touts benefits of tapping into Marcellus Shale
By Steve Reilly •sreilly@gannett.com • June 24, 2010, 10:30 pm

BINGHAMTON -- Anti-drilling activists have presented harrowing images -- explosive tap water, contaminated waterways, animals mysteriously losing their hair -- of what they think are the side effects of hydraulic fracturing.

But according to Syracuse University Earth Sciences professor Don Siegel, these concerns are more myth than reality.

"This is the first environmental issue that I've thrown my hat into the ring on," he said. "As a hydrogeologist, I really am almost offended by some of the opposition that's trying to paint a picture of what groundwater resources are like that is completely wrong."

Siegel was among a cadre of industry, government and academic proponents of natural gas extraction in the Southern Tier who spoke at an invitation-only media event Thursday at the Holiday Inn-Arena, where they sought to combat what they claim is misinformation propagated by anti-natural gas activists.

Even though the session was invitation-only, two protesters showed up outside with signs against drilling.

Inside, the message was all positive.

"New investments will be made in a region where multimillion -- and even multibillion -- dollar investments have not been seen to this level in years," said Broome County Executive Barbara Fiala, "and we can do all this while protecting the environment."

Drilling that makes use of horizontal hydraulic fracturing, or "hydrofracking," has been stymied in New York since 2008, when Gov. David Paterson ordered the state Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to stop granting well permits while it drafted a supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement to address the technique.

As the sGEIS nears completion, the redoubled efforts of those opposed to drilling in the Marcellus Shale have put its advocates on the offensive.

Siegel, perhaps the star speaker at the event, said he "felt compelled to speak out for good information" after hearing environmentalists raise concerns he thinks are invalid. He presented a list of the "not-problems," of hydraulic fracturing.

The radioactivity of shale cuttings, he said, is "almost unmeasurable" and won't pose a danger if it is placed in area landfills. Water extraction needed to fracture shale beds is also not an issue, Siegel said, noting that the millions of gallons needed for each well pale in comparison to other uses and are not a threat to waterways.

Siegel added that drinking water supplies are "essentially disconnected" from the Marcellus Shale, and the "microscopic little cracks" created by hydraulic fracturing in shale beds a mile deep pose little danger to the residents and landowners above.

Although Siegel pointed to two concerns he does have -- methane migration that can occur when wells are improperly cemented and the relatively high salinity of the waste water that emerges from a well after it is fractured -- he said they are relatively minor compared to the hyperbolic claims of those opposed to drilling and expressed confidence the gas industry is finding solutions.

Another local academic with experience around natural gas industry, incoming Broome Community College President Kevin Drumm, described his experience with the gas industry in Wyoming as "virtually entirely positive" during his remarks Thursday.

Drumm previously served as president of Northern Wyoming Community College District, which sits just north of two massive pockets of natural gas "which could only be dwarfed in the future, possibly, by the Marcellus Shale."

"Our campus was one of the fastest-growing campuses in the United States, and virtually all of our graduates were going out into very good-paying energy industry jobs," Drumm said. "The energy industry creates great jobs -- lots of jobs -- and we were heavily involved in our colleges in training for those jobs."

Drumm sees potential for the expansion of BCC's civil engineering, technology and health science programs if the natural gas industry comes to the Southern Tier.

Mark Scheuerman, director of government and media relations for Talisman Energy USA, agreed with Siegel that the primary issues from hydraulic fracturing are controllable and occur at the surface rather than deep underground, pointing to the transportation of non-diluted chemicals and the cement casings around wells as areas where DEC regulators should focus.

"We do really well in engineering a safe, responsible operation," Scheuerman said, "but what we need to do better is to communicate and have information provided."

After the speakers finished, Mayor Matthew T. Ryan rose to ask why taxpayers were paying for DEC's regulation of the industry and why the gas is being shipped out of state by pipelines rather than being kept locally to lower energy costs.

"Why isn't there a plan in place that makes a certain portion of that gas stay in the state and lower our costs immediately, because we're sitting on such a great resource?" Ryan asked.

Scheuerman answered that industry has been funding regulators in other states, including Pennsylvania, through the permit fees it pays for each well; and he said it sells its natural gas on the open market, so it doesn't control where it is ultimately used.

Laborers Local 785 union representative Alex Parillo and Greater Binghamton Chamber of Commerce President and CEO Lou Santoni also spoke in favor of the economic benefits exploitation of the Marcellus Shale might bring to the area.
 
Heres his BIO notice he has a special interest in contaminant transport in groundwater systems.

Environmental Science at Syracuse University - Our Faculty - Don Siegel

I see that he does field research:

"A new research thrust relates to the fate and transport of nutrients from septic systems in the New York City watershed at local and regional scales."

I hope he wasn't expecting NYC to pick up the tab... they might not appreciate him pointing out the obvious, like he's doing... ;)
 
Is it fair to assume that the industry organized and paid for the event, and chose the "invitation only" speakers? How could this news article not state who put on the event?

Assuming I'm correct, does it mean much that the industry's hand-picked experts agree that there are no concerns?
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Iam sure Don Siegal wont be to dissapointed if there is major contamination from a gas well in delaware county into the Delaware system since he is up in Syracuse and since his only hobby of interest listed is competitive chess well lets say the contamination of the drinking water and the dead fish in the Delaware system are probably not going to make him lose much sleep. This meeting was a bunch of hand selected pro drilling activists spewing their point of views in the name of GREED yes GREED not science . (These peoples passion is money . My passion is trout fishing .I dont want drilling period and my mind wont be changed. Yes there will be accidents when drilling commences thats why ) Antis against drilling could have the same type of meeting big deal. If you want drilling good for you if you dont want to see drilling happen ( like me) than good for you and me. People have their own reasons for not wanting or wanting drilling to happen leave it at that and accept it and it will or will not happen. If you are on the fence than figure out what is best for you ( Greed ,energy , clean water and healthy streams unfortunately you cant have it all ) and decide.
 
I wonder how much stock he owns in gas related companies. Seems strange this is the first environmental issue he has gotten involved in and jumps in with both feet and fist swinging.
 
Classic.

A SCIENTIST steps up and shares some factual information and he MUST stand to gain... Even if he is, what he says (based upon education and experience) CAN'T POSSIBLY be true. He got into his field, because he does not care if people are affected by pollution...

He's wrong and you guys are right.

Thanks for the laugh.
 
So problems they have already had in other areas of the country with this gas drilling method must also be myth. BP has experience and educated scientists so maybe the oil spill is also be myth. Thanks for the clarification, he is right and everyone else is wrong, I never considered that possibility, thanks for clearing air.
 
Here is a columnist from the Wilkes Barre "Times Leader" who does not believe these claims are "full of hyperbole." By the way, educate me here if you will: Is "hyperbole" the latin term for the methane loaded waste eliminated by male bovines? Perhaps we can solve the gas crisis by extracting it from the critics of the fracing process?

But I digress.

Kevin Blaum, the Columnist here, is a recently retired (voluntarily-by the way) member of the Pennsylvania Legislature. He served over 20 years representing Wilkes Barre and environs. It is a thought provoking column.

Environmental hazards exposed by gutsy film IN THE ARENA KEVIN BLAUM | The Times Leader, Wilkes-Barre, PA

Bob K.
 
Hes another gas company man to add to your list of croonies. You can put him right there with Grannis.

Pa. DEP chief lashes out at 'Gasland' director

(AP) Pennsylvania's top environmental official says the director of an award-winning documentary about drilling in the Marcellus Shale region is a "propagandist" whose film is "fundamentally dishonest."


Department of Environmental Protection Secretary John Hanger says the movie by Josh Fox is a "deliberately false presentation for dramatic effect."
Fox's film, "Gasland," portrays the gas industry as exploiting loopholes to inject toxins in the ground, among other dangerous activities.
In the movie, Fox challenges Hanger to drink a bottle of what he says is water polluted by drilling. Hanger declines.
Fox says Hanger is being dishonest himself by portraying Marcellus Shale drilling as anything but a disaster.
 
Private Home & Water Well Reportedly Impacted by Hydrofracking Near Andover/Independence, NY | Toxics Targeting

This is not very far from where I live. Money drives this issue from the standpoint of the state and in some instances, the many landowners who will get rich from drilling on their property. We never learn that what seems the best for us economically will cost us much more in the long run. Clean up efforts cost billions of dollars and think of how many people will be affected by projects like this all over our state. It's coming! The economy is too bad to not press forward.

Mark
 
While we all fear the contamination of well water, one thing you need to examine is that a great deal of the environmental risk is air pollution. The wells are capturing the natural gas, and often allowing load of ancillary contaminants into the air.

The Animals losing hair claim can be just as much from the massive amounts of legally evacuated by-product. Which will on nice dry windy days be dissipated and on still misty days be deposited on the fields when it rains. Where cows, sheep and deer can graze on it and kids can play soccer or football on it. What does not get eaten or rubbed into knee pads of fullbacks, runs off contributing to more surface water pollution later on.

The biggest visible disasters have occurred when the waste water and by-products find their way into the rivers and wells of people. Which the industry wonks like FF and Kilgour will poo-poo as mistakes that will not happen here. The fact remains that the fish are dead, the wells contaminated, the cancer causing agents consumed by the kids and the damage is done, even if not by the actual drilling.

I wonder if Mr. Siegel drinks the water from Onondaga Lake unfiltered, after all the pollution in there is only a myth right? I mean the companies that dumped their chemical and sewage into the water, employed lots of people (before bailing out and never fixing the damage they caused.)

The drilling is scary, the horrible track record these companies have when they get the drilling right and everything else wrong is terrifying.
 
What it comes down to, is a bunch of rich guys with great lawyers doing what they want. Welcome to America.
 
Here is a new website launched June 29, 2010. According to the July 8, 2010 Wilkes Barre Times Leader it is a one-stop shop for uploading and downloading data about practically anything related to Marcellus Shale development. Anyone who registers for the website can upload data that can be overlaid on pre-existing maps. This includes such things as where gas well blowouts occurred, and health data such as incidences of cancer and economic data and much more.

The site is hosted by the Foundation for Pennsylvania Watersheds and managed by the Center for Healthy Environments and Communities (CHEC) of the University of Pittsburgh"s Graduate School of Public Health.

FracTracker - Marcellus Shale Data Tracking

Bob K.
 
I wonder if Mr. Siegel drinks the water from Onondaga Lake unfiltered, after all the pollution in there is only a myth right? I mean the companies that dumped their chemical and sewage into the water, employed lots of people (before bailing out and never fixing the damage they caused.)

Onondaga Lake....I went to Syracuse Univ in the early seventies and I remember the color of that lake as being an almost fluorescent green. The joke back then was if you drove your car off the road into Onandaga you had no worries.....the water was so polluted your car would float. Drinking water from there unfiltered???????:beingsick:
 
I found this extremely interesting forum on gas drilling in NY and Pa, it is loaded with info Natural gas weekly update

It appears that a person using the appellation of "Kilgour Farms" runs the forum linked above. And that person identifies himself (or herself) therein as a "driller."

How about it KF? What's the story?

Bob K

PS: Also see link here:http://www.pagaslease.com/index.php
PPS: Correction here: "Kilgour Farms" in the Natural Gas Weekly Update Forum is identified as a "Driller" and holds the position of "Global Moderator," with 3855 posts averaging 14.121 a day. So, whoever he is, he doesn't "run" the forum.
 
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Not my forum and thats only one thread. This is the site:

www.pagaslease.com

You'd be amazed at the diversity of the people that post. You'll find more info there, the good, the bad and the ugly, then almost anywhere else.

Thats put out every week by the EIA, http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/ngw/ngupdate.asp I keep track of heating oil prices, NG ect., It became a habit, looking at energy pricing and outlook. I try to understand every aspect of the energy sector and this is one.

"Driller" is an inside joke. I have no affiliation with the gas industry.
 
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It must be very time comsuming to keep track of gas prices as a habit.
Almost 4,000 posts in less than a year, how do you find time to fish ?
The post below is interesting. So how do you really feel about gas drilling ?


Kilgour Farms *
Driller
Global Moderator

Posts: 3861

Re: Partnership to partner with area groups to get ready for drilling
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2010, 11:09:22 am »
I find it ironic that these enviro groups say we need a coherent policy towards drilling and need to prepare for it.

Now that a few county IDA's get together to try and determine what is fact and what is fiction the enviros get scared. They get scared because they are afraid of the truth being exposed and their little charade will come to an end.

The enviro's policy of misrepresentation and fearmongering is the only way they feel they can stop drilling.

These groups should be pleased that local communities are taking the bull by the horns and setting up a system to coordinate accurate information and economic developement.

These groups are showing there true colors and the politicans should wake up to the facts that this country needs domestic energy production, wind and solar will not cut it.« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 12:35:51 pm by Kilgour Farms * »
 
It is what it is, some may dismiss me and thats upto the indivigual, I'm comfortable with what I have learned about gas developement and try tp provide accurate information to the uniformed.

I was against drilling at first until I did the research. The facts are there for everyone to see, just need to get through the sensationalism. I distrust the gasco as much as the enviro extremists.

I've been doing research on gas developement for over three years and have invested a large amount of time in my quest to find the facts. The more you know and understand the better prepared you are.


As far as fishing? I live on the main stem, have for most of my life. I can pick and choose when I go fishing, I don't have to plan a trip to fish, I just do it when the urge hits me.
 
I don't think many here is are extremists and everyone has a right to their own opinions and interests so use yours to share with us on the gas drilling issues. I just thought saying one thread and a habit of tracking gas prices was a bit of
smoke. Now that we know you are into gas you can feel free to jump in on the issues and help us understand the good and the bad about the drilling issues.
 
I don't think many here is are extremists and everyone has a right to their own opinions and interests so use yours to share with us on the gas drilling issues. I just thought saying one thread and a habit of tracking gas prices was a bit of
smoke. Now that we know you are into gas you can feel free to jump in on the issues and help us understand the good and the bad about the drilling issues.

Its not news, I think it was already clear to most of us here a while ago. Agree or disagree with him and his point of view but I think KF, for the most part, has pretty much been upfront on here regarding his interests in the gas industry.
 
Hi,
Just as an aside-I grew up near Syracuse. My grandfather use to tell me that at one time, Onondaga Lake was one of the best fishing lakes in NY State. It was loaded with Whitefish, and supplied restaurants in NY City with delectable meals. It just goes to show you what disregard for protecting our environment will result in. They've been trying to clean up the lake since I was in my teens, and while it has gotten better, it's still not clean.

Mark
 
Its not news, I think it was already clear to most of us here a while ago. Agree or disagree with him and his point of view but I think KF, for the most part, has pretty much been upfront on here regarding his interests in the gas industry.

OK. I agree. Fair enough!

Here is more info from the Wall Street Journal today. Range Resources Corp. says it plans to disclose the chemicals used to "frac" natural-gas wells in Pennsylvania, confronting rising pressure from environmental groups worried that drilling could contaminate drinking water. Page B-8

Range Resources to Disclose Chemicals Used in Gas Drilling - WSJ.com
 
Here is a new website launched June 29, 2010. According to the July 8, 2010 Wilkes Barre Times Leader it is a one-stop shop for uploading and downloading data about practically anything related to Marcellus Shale development. Anyone who registers for the website can upload data that can be overlaid on pre-existing maps. This includes such things as where gas well blowouts occurred, and health data such as incidences of cancer and economic data and much more.

The site is hosted by the Foundation for Pennsylvania Watersheds and managed by the Center for Healthy Environments and Communities (CHEC) of the University of Pittsburgh"s Graduate School of Public Health.

FracTracker - Marcellus Shale Data Tracking


Bob K.

As an example of what this new website can do look at this list of numerous recent violations in Susquehanna County, PA.

Oil & Gas Violations in Susquehanna County, through June 2010

Scroll down to "Citations" for the link with the list. You can also do the same for Wayne Co. but there are much fewer citations there.

Bob
 
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Here is a Letter to the Editor in today's Wilkes Barre Citizen's Voice which cites the on-line Pulitzer Prize winning Journal Pro Publica which is edited by Paul Steiger the former managing editor of the Wall Street Journal.

The letter discusses the fact that the fracking process has never been proven safe or unsafe to local water supplies and that scientific experts conclude that we just don't know yet if it is or isn't. The letter also states that there are now over 1000 verified cases of water contamination in states where fracking has taken place.

A nonbiased investigative group warns of dangers of fracking - Letters - Citizens Voice

Bob K.
 
Today a shallow well (only 3500 feet deep) blew up 15 miles Northeast of Pittsburgh. 2 workers killed. It made national news in the WSJ. It is on the Wilkes Barre Citizen's Voice website.






 
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