Muddy Esopus Research

[Future Fanatic]

Any thoughts?

Trout not harmed by muddy Esopus water: researcherWater releases by NYC is topic of presentation
A Cornell University researcher said Saturday that discharges from a New York City water tunnel that have muddied part of the Esopus – shown above last autumn after a water release – haven't harmed brown trout, a favorite of fishermen. His findings contradict the views of some environmental and fishing groups.

By Michael Novinson
Times Herald-Record
Published: 2:00 AM - 02/05/12

STONE RIDGE — New York City might be flooding basements, contaminating water and creating sinkholes in Wawarsing.

New York City might have turned the Lower Esopus into Willy Wonka's chocolate river through dirty-water releases.

But New York City hasn't killed any brown trout in the Upper Esopus. In fact, the city might be helping them. Discharges from the city's Shandaken water tunnel have actually made brown trout bigger and healthier, according to Cornell University graduate student T.J. Ross.

He offered the findings at a public presentation held Saturday at SUNY Ulster.

Ross spent three summers tracking trout behavior and health, both above and below where tunnel water joins the creek.

The influx of cool Schoharie Reservoir water through the tunnel keeps downstream trout more active and chemically balanced during the summer months, Ross found. This outweighed the impact of somewhat more cloudy and hazy water below the tunnel.

"Temperature alone is the most important thing for trout," Ross concluded.

Fishing and environmental groups had long believed otherwise. The Catskills chapter of Trout Unlimited and Riverkeeper sued the city's Department of Environmental Preservation in 2000, arguing that the dirty releases violated the federal Clean Water Act.

The city was ordered in 2003 to pay a $5.7 million fine and get a permit for discharges.

The cloudy water below the tunnel forces trout to expend more energy hunting prey, Ross said, but water conditions aren't severe enough to harm gills or put fish in jeopardy. "It's really not that extreme," he said.

Ross's findings surprised some of the 60 people in attendance — many of whom fish the Esopus.

"Those (trout) growth rates (below the tunnel), they're just not right," said Jim Davis of Boiceville.

Some at the event wondered if chilly tunnel water could harm downstream trout in shoulder seasons. "I don't think this would be as important outside of the summer," said Tony Cocozza of Boiceville.

mnovinson@th-record.com

 

[Trout Nazi]

I passed through the area about a month ago, during a period of low water, and the discharge coming out of the tunnel, and the river, was the color of fudge, not just "cloudy". I did have some good fishing there in recent years though. The real question is whats the impact on the fish now that the river bed has been trashed by Irene?

 

[Trouser Trout]

I always fish it off the bridge from the thruway, despite casting well into my backing I have yet to reach the water.

 

[quality time]

Interesting that they point out only the brown trout in this study. It has long been the position of the locals that this stream fishes better for its rainbows, which they seem to agree isn't what it used to be. I haven't fished it long enough, or often enough to personally have an informed opinion, but there is a lot of older literature that talks of the rainbows in this stream, not the browns. I'd like to see a study of the rainbow population and growth rates.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Interesting that they point out only the brown trout in this study. It has long been the position of the locals that this stream fishes better for its rainbows, which they seem to agree isn't what it used to be. I haven't fished it long enough, or often enough to personally have an informed opinion, but there is a lot of older literature that talks of the rainbows in this stream, not the browns. I'd like to see a study of the rainbow population and growth rates.

I must confess to never having fished this river, but I had also thought of it as primarily a wild rainbow factory. I was surprised they only mentioned browns, but I'm not surprised about the off color not being a big issue for the trout. Think about Western rivers that see months of vicious winter snow melt runoff. That water can be chocolate milk for a couple of months, but once it recedes and you can get in to fish it, there they are.

As to the report itself, I have no idea if it has been pier reviewed or who commissioned the study.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Most of the time I've fished it I've caught mostly bows, thats what its known for. There have been times though where I've caught mostly browns (in the fall). The real impact to the fishery right now, I'd imagine, is the damage from Irene, the streambed has been scoured and filled in. On a positive note, should be a light didymo year.

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

I always fish it off the bridge from the thruway, despite casting well into my backing I have yet to reach the water.

Not enough rod, your probably fishing with a 9 footer. If you had a 9 and a half footer, you would have been in the game.

 

[Dusty Miller]

One study by a grad student does not make it so. I really would like to see his data and his methodology.
And even if it were true, does that mean it's OK to pollute a river? What does NYC's Department of Environmental Protection protect? Certainly they don't preserve anything.

 

[Trouser Trout]

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------



Not enough rod, your probably fishing with a 9 footer. If you had a 9 and a half footer, you would have been in the game.[/QUOTE]

I have never had that problem.....

 

[SteveMcD]

I am biting my tongue and holding back on how I really feel about this. Didn't need a major study to know that the Esopus is no longer the fabled stream it use to be. And it has been in ongoing lasting deterioration over a long period of time. I have been a die hard flyfisher on the Esopus for the past 30 years. And it is not even a shadow of it's former self. Prior to the January Thaw Winter Flood of 1995. Prior to that time all of the fish caught averaged 10-12 -13 inches, after that time it was pretty dead for a couple of years, then started to come back in 1998-99 with a lot of "native" fingerling 5-6 inch rainbows. By then of course the local industry changed and choose to support the local "tube" hatcheries and Kayakers, so no one cared about the water flow coming out of the portal, in fact they wanted it for the Kayakers and tubers. Although, we all knew it was further detrimental to the trout. The Esopus with that and the increased releases from the Schoharie have turned the bottom of the creek into red mud, which cannot support the once vibrant wild rainbow trout population. Over the past two years I have had just as many encounters with DEC Cornell Surveyers as I had with Trout. Such a shame.. The DEC had the power to due a lot more and did almost nothing. As far as a trout fishery other than the put and take stockies - it is a dead fishery..

The Esopus may not be what it use to be, but then again.. What Is? I still fish it, mostily well below the 5 Arches Bridges and usually between the tressle and the chimney hole. I have fished this creek my entire adult life and taught my son's to flyfish here. Old habits die hard and memories never die. I will always return here, even if it is just a customary habit

 

[Stimulator]

I have fished the Esopus for almost 40 years and this guy is a a-hole. Most of the browns are hatchery fish, there is very little successful spawning for browns in this river. The rainbows on the other hand are 100% wild. They have not stocked rainbows in at least 30 years.

The river used to be loaded with wild rainbows, but all the muddy water is silting up the gravel and smothering the trout eggs as well as the bugs. Luckily a couple of the tribs are not affected by the discharge from the portal so the bows that go up the tribs can still spawn successfully. However, there are a lot of river miles and a lot of spawning gravel that are now silted in, and lost as spawning areas.

On top of that, it appears because of the lawsuit the city is releasing water from higher up in the reservoir. The last time I fished the river, just below the portal with a good flow coming out of it, I could not believe how warm the water was. I have seen smallmouth behind the cemetery, not far below the portal. When the water coming out of the portal was cold, they never used to be anywhere near there and you used to have to be below Phoenicia to see a smallie.

I remember when the river used to run clear, it's been a long time since I have seen it when it was not at least murky.

Was a great river, not any more.

 

[SteveMcD]

I am afraid the recent survey takers of the Esopus are too damn young and clueless to know just how much a great Rainbow fishery the Esopus once was.