Stenacron man
New member
You are correct
You are correct
I'm going out on a limb here, but THOSE tails are not over 3x the body length of that fly...
Tail length is not important for an I.D.?
But can you find any photo or description of a Maccaffertium pudicum with "3x" tails?
Thanks again...
Without measuring we all tend to over estimate the size of things whether its a bug or the lock-ness monster, its just part of being the species that we are.
Like I stated before with dissection this is all just speculation.
I would love samples especially the carolina.
Ask Kurt = ENTOMAN on trout nut what he feels about the pudicum sample. The carolina we have that one figured out. He knows maccaffertium like a master, and what ever he says it is,, is good enough 4 me.
Thank you about your expert comment
We have to real on some luck with stuff crossing the boarder. I will hook you up with Stenacron ecology in a video My son and I did on a new species I am working with right now. Stenacron are very specific about where and how they live. Just copy and paste this youtube link to see it.
I totally do not mind this is fun
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbSmSg6hQLg&feature=share[/link]
I totally take as a complement. So I am like the only bug guy here on this site ???
These guys are not really my knowledge strong point but I will go with
(Siphlonurus quebecensis or S alternatus) the gray drakes and most likely
S quebecensis
The eyes on the Carolina are spread wide apart due to inbreeding. That's what happens. There's a lot of that going on down there in the Carolina's. Look at this specimen:I love PA and would love to visit it again I lived near Lewisburg for years. I would love to take you up on that offer but I don't have a Canadian passport at this time. So if I cross the boarded I can't come back. The most important feature is like "YOU" said the eye spacing and that they are both spinners.
So tell me why in the yellow carolina, the eyes are very wide spread, and the pudicum they are tight, but both are in the last 12 hours of their life span ????
I think you're wasting a lot of valuable quality time writing this book that probably won't get past the exit door in any book store brave enough to carry such a creature.Dr Traver one of the leading authors of the biology of a mayfly 1935 does state tail size in her 1933 description on the female pudicum larva. No other descriptions state tail size for that species that I can find and currently have over 400 species manuals;
pudicum for larva;
Body size for female; 12-14 mm
Tails for female larva; 18-20 mm
Generally in most Heptageniidae the tails lengthen as they molt from subimago or dun, to the imago state being a spinner. Most have a average tail length between 22-24 mm for a male.
I know from my own personally study of the vicarium complex that,
(M vicarium), (M vicarium / rivulicolum), and (M vicarium / fuscum)
and they all have tails that are 22 mm. In that study I reared 67 males and 173 females to the adult stage from larva for that complex. The female adults all had tails that were 20 mm on average. So because a "true vicarium" male has a body length of 16 mm and a tail length of 23 mm on average that makes the tails about 1 5/8 X the length of the body. From what I can find M pudicum male is 14 mm in body size with a likely tail length of 24 mm.
So without going crazy with the math that would be just shy of 2 X the length of the body. Without measuring we all tend to over estimate the size of things whether its a bug or the lock-ness monster, its just part of being the species that we are. However I do agree that in the pudicum photo the tails look very long to long to be M vicarium.
All I can say is this.
I am currently writing a book on the genus Stenacron and have spent the last 3 years 12 -16 hrs a day, 7 days a week, with no days off studying this genus and for sure 1000% the other one is Stenacron Carolina!!! And the suspected pudicum is 100000000000% not a Stenacron. I have in the past 3 years looked at over 500+ Stenacron samples in all stages I know them like I know my family. Right now I have a fish tank running right beside me with about 70 Stenacron larva alive and looking at me while type right now. I have in solution well over 200 larva to dissect the winter. Trust me the dark one is not a Stenacron.
Like I stated before with dissection this is all just speculation.
The bug stuff in interesting for as long as it takes me to tie one on.
I totally take as a complement. So I am like the only bug guy here on this site ???
These guys are not really my knowledge strong point but I will go with
(Siphlonurus quebecensis or S alternatus) the gray drakes and most likely
S quebecensis
I thought it was a Quill Gordon(Epeorus pleuralis).....as I get them every year around the same time, from a small creek out my front door....this was a female, obviously, but I also get them males and their Frank Poncharello sunglasses give them away....
Yes..I aware of that. .it is very fast...small...and very clean.....it flows into C1TP waters.......like I said...I get male Gordon's also and they are unmistakable. ...Epeorus require fast moving colds water with most importantly very levels of oxygen. But is your little creek is a spring, fast moving and all season. If so then Epeorus could be there. Epeorus are so fragile. Keeping them alive in a bucket for more than 2 hours to bring home is very hard to do. Every time I try to bring larva home alive more than 90% are dead in 2 hours.
Sounds like good spring insect habitat :dizzy:
We have to real on some luck with stuff crossing the boarder. I will hook you up with Stenacron ecology in a video My son and I did on a new species I am working with right now. Stenacron are very specific about where and how they live. Just copy and paste this youtube link to see it.
I totally do not mind this is fun
So, I don't like depending on luck.
Do you know if anything has been done with mayfly DNA?
I ask because I know a guy who runs a genetics lab.
I have not approached him yet because I don't know enough to ask the right questions.
See, I could capture a dark one and a light one.
He could do the DNA test.
Of course the DNA would be different due to the fact that they are two separate individuals, but I don't know if he would he be able to tell if they are the same species. If there was anyone doing work with mayflies, this may help him to figure out how close bugs of different (or the same) species are.
You know what I mean?
Anyway, I thought the DNA thing might be interesting...
I believe I can likely answer why the tails on you carolina area so long. But here is the million dollar questions for you.
1; what is the elevation from sea level where you are ????
2; what color is the substraight of the water, Dark, Medium,
or very pale light ???