Hatch charts and climate change

[Trout Nazi]

Our tax dollars most certainly fund oil exploration...
http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/
https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs
https://www.fuelfreedom.org/oil-company-subsidies/

They’re casting a pretty broad net here with the definition of a subsidy, but name me one domestic industry that doesn’t get get these. Shit, how many breaks does Jersey alone give to keep industry here (including my industry)?

 

[mudbug201]

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

 

[Trout Nazi]

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Aaaaaand, another clown gets into the clown car.

 

[lightenup]

Aaaaaand, another clown gets into the clown car.

Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources.

It's seems as if 97% of the people who really study this stuff are "clowns"...last word from me, my point is made with backing evidence, no more be said. Have fun mudbug!!

 

[Trout Nazi]

Trying to explain science to a bunch of guys that site NOAA, NASA, and EPA all day long is a lost cause, you can have your last word. You guys are EXACTLY the same as the house wives in my town when I try to explain why not vaccinating your kids is bad. You ask them to use their brains, they use the the internet instead. You just use different bullshit arguments written by different “scientists” than they do. Even when you show them overwhelming evidence to the contrary, still nothing. You know, a bunch of people believe it, it’s on the internet, so it must be true. And in your case, you don’t trust the government, but you believe this crap.

 

[tompg]

so the scientist that says vaccines are good is ok but the science behind global warming is bad? The CDC, WHO, are good gov scientist but NASA, EPA and NOAA, are bad? who sounds like the housewives?

 

[Trout Nazi]

so the scientist that says vaccines are good is ok but the science behind global warming is bad? The CDC, WHO, are good gov scientist but NASA, EPA and NOAA, are bad? who sounds like the housewives?

Vaccination has nothing to do with the CDC, WHO, etc. and everything to do with immunology, biochemistry, and epidemiology. Vaccination is a by product of understanding exactly how our adaptive immune system works. And all vaccines have had to undergo clinical trials to reach a rigorous statistically significant end point. There is actually hard data that PROVES that vaccination works. When was the last time someone you know here died of Polio or small pox? Where is the rigor in climate science?

 

[tompg]

"Where is the rigor in climate science?" maybe a bit of it in the 97% of climate scientist agreeing? or in observation of our surroundings? All these scientists that you agree with and don't agree with use the same method we all learned in high school

 

[Trout Nazi]

"Where is the rigor in climate science?" maybe a bit of it in the 97% of climate scientist agreeing? or in observation of our surroundings? All these scientists that you agree with and don't agree with use the same method we all learned in high school

Climate science, that thing that actually became a “science” in the last 10-15yrs, that you can get your degree in on-line? That notwithstanding, a bunch of people agreeing (on a flawed premise) on something does not constitute rigor. I think you need to go back to HS and brush up on the scientific method, or look it up online since that constitutes education these days.

And My position isn’t based on just a bunch reports or other scientist’s observations, but I’ve looked at the raw data and statistics upon which these conclusions are based and drawn my own. But I know, it’s much easier to follow the herd and let others do the critical thinking for you.

Observation (bringing it back around) and not listening to the bullshit online reports, one of the reasons I hardly ever get skunked when I fish.

 

[FIN-ITE 34]

A couple of questions for the smarter than me crowd.
1. Regardless of the reason, is the global temperature rising at the present time?
2. If so, any ideas as to how much, how fast and how long the rise is occurring?
3. If so, what impacts will the rising temperature have on living things on the planet?
4. If so, what if anything should the people of planet earth do to mitigate any negative impacts caused by said warming?

Just asking, not that I will be around to have to worry about any of this.

 

[Trout Nazi]

1. Could be going up, if you look at the natural cycles since the last ice age, that’s what should be happening. Nothing ever stays static in nature.
2. How long, won’t know till long after we’re gone. Geologic time scale is in thousands of years.
3. Impacts to living things close to nil, since we’re talking a few degrees. Life on this planet has evolved to endure this, or there would be no life. Life also changes, all species evolve, some disappear, new ones emerge. Evolution didn’t just stop because a bunch of shaved apes like us learned to talk.
4. Can’t do anything to mitigate, adapt or die. We can stop polluting though. We have displaced species, changed habitats, destroyed habitats, created new ones, dirtied them all. Despite this, we don’t have the power to alter planetary cycles, that belief is just human hubris.

 

[njcaddis]

Holy crap! This reads like the Impeachment hearings. On one side they are saying he is guilty, then the other side says, he didn’t do any of that, but if he did, it’s not illegal anyway. There is a third side too, that says I don’t care because it won’t affect me, me, me.

 

[FIN-ITE 34]

And what group do you fall into NJ?

 

[MACFLY]

What is it the 97% of climate scientists agree on? It’s actually not what you have been told. This is part of the challenge of coming to any consensus on climate change. Couple that with the constant tie in to social justice issues and the blaming western culture and colonialism for everything including climate change and you can easily recognize why there is so much skepticism. I’m not a skeptic in the way TN is I do think it’s fair to question the science and certainly the approach to resolution is really a non starter. It’s also fair to call out the hypocrisy of those who preach while continuing to consume and expand their own carbon footprint.

When I hear that capitalism is the cause of climate change I simply shake my head. To the extent we are impacting climate change the only way it gets resolved is through innovation and entrepreneurship led by capitalism not the undoing of our way of life and standard of living.

"Where is the rigor in climate science?" maybe a bit of it in the 97% of climate scientist agreeing? or in observation of our surroundings? All these scientists that you agree with and don't agree with use the same method we all learned in high school

 

[njcaddis]

And what group do you fall into NJ?

I fall into the group that DJT definitely ask for a favor from Ukraine to benefit his 2020 election and withheld congress approved funds which jeopardized Ukraine's security.

i also believe in the scientific consensus on this matter and I also believe nothing I say here will change the minds of those that dispute the science.

 

[mudbug201]

1. Could be going up.

Yeah, that's about all I need to hear to totally discredit anything else you have to say. About anything.
The global temperature "could be going up." :shrug:

 

[Trout Nazi]

Yeah, that's about all I need to hear to totally discredit anything else you have to say. About anything.
The global temperature "could be going up." :shrug:

Yea, it could be going up, it could be going down. Since this type of thing takes place on a geological time scale that’s measured in thousands of years, 150yrs of actual raw data collection (not extrapolated from ice samples) is a blip in geological time, so I don’t actually expect you to wrap your head around it. This reminds me of a conversation me and my wife had the other day after she read some some post on the local house-wives forum from some anti-vaccer idiot. She said “people who don’t know science, yet believe this shit enough to go preaching about it are fucking idiots. They just believe whatever they read on the internet don’t they”. Yup, can’t argue with that.

 

[tompg]

Only scientists can know anything. I wonder why we bother teaching science or sharing the fruit of their work at all. Even then only certain types of scientists actually practice science. I sure wish someone had a list of what types of science are science and which are not. I say they're all a bunch of phrenologists who keep changing their collective minds every few decades. Thank God for the consistency of the bible. Same answers for few thousand years can't be disputed.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Actually, people who take the time and effort to learn how things work can come to know things. These days, it’s easier blindly follow someone who claims they know things, or put your faith in a large group of people who believe the same thing because “it sounds right”, vs. putting in the effort to actually learn the mechanisms and processes behind how something works. Applies to anything.

 

[Pete]

Actually, people who take the time and effort to learn how things work can come to know things. These days, it’s easier blindly follow someone who claims they know things, or put your faith in a large group of people who believe the same thing because “it sounds right”, vs. putting in the effort to actually learn the mechanisms and processes behind how something works. Applies to anything.

Disagree:
As an engineer I learned the folly of testimony outside one's area of expertise, unless it's made very clear that it's nothing more than a layman's opinion.

In my layman's opinion.
What should have been a debate between experts, became political when Al Gore testified outside his area of expertise. More recently John Kerry formed a group that will ensure that it remains political for the foreseeable future.

Since Academia tends to lean a bit to the political left, we have a situation akin to the tail wagging the dog. What's sad is none of these people appear to be aware, or don't care, that their efforts are counterproductive to getting a consensus.

 

[falcon]

I will always remember seeing Kerry stumbling around a Ohio corn field pretending he's hunting geese. He uses more energy in week than most other people in a year It gets better when mumbles and falls off his bike. He said " I could have been a astronaut"
Oh yeah " Sky Pilot"

 

[golden beetle]

Incidents of tick borne diseases in Maine that were once rare are evidence of a changing climate. Ticks are moving further and further north.

“The ticks have brought a surge of Lyme disease in Maine over two decades, boosting reported cases from 71 in 2000 to 1,487 in 2016 — a 20-fold increase, the latest federal data show. Today, Maine leads the nation in Lyme incidence, topping hot spots like Connecticut, New Jersey, and Wisconsin. Deer-tick illnesses such as anaplasmosis and babesiosis — a bacterial infection and a parasitic disease similar to malaria, respectively — are following a similar trajectory.
The explosion of disease correlates with a warming climate in Maine where, over the past three decades, summers generally have grown hotter and longer and winters milder and shorter.”

https://grist.org/article/an-army-o...-disease-is-advancing-it-will-only-get-worse/

 

[golden beetle]

Striped bass are also extending their range further and further north. In the process, they are contributing to the decimation of Altantic salmon populations and destroying local economies that depend on the salmon fishery.

https://www.flyfisherman.com/editorial/miramichi-striped-bass-move-north/360951

https://www.flyfisherman.com/editorial/canadian-stripers-slam-salmon/151785

 

[MACFLY]

And you add to this the linking of climate change to social justice and the blaming of capitalism and western colonialism for the worlds problems and you can be certain there will be no consensus.

Disagree:
As an engineer I learned the folly of testimony outside one's area of expertise, unless it's made very clear that it's nothing more than a layman's opinion.

In my layman's opinion.
What should have been a debate between experts, became political when Al Gore testified outside his area of expertise. More recently John Kerry formed a group that will ensure that it remains political for the foreseeable future.

Since Academia tends to lean a bit to the political left, we have a situation akin to the tail wagging the dog. What's sad is none of these people appear to be aware, or don't care, that their efforts are counterproductive to getting a consensus.

 

[Johnw]

I recall a debunking of that 97% number some time back but don't remember the details except that it was from a very small sample of scientists already on board. Surprised it wasn't 100%. The real number would probably be closer to 50%. Another comment I recall is that if you are not discussing global warming in 10,000 year segments then you don't know what you are talking about. It's comments like these from knowledgable scientists along with cases of falsified data, distorted statistics and the obvious quest for more and more grants and funding and info from those like TN t hat make me a denier.

 

[Trout Nazi]

And you add to this the linking of climate change to social justice and the blaming of capitalism and western colonialism for the worlds problems and you can be certain there will be no consensus.

Most of the worlds pollution isn't coming from the "Western" world, but lets not let facts get in the way. Capitalism is also bad, say all of the guys here fishing with $800 rods (or the cheap-skates fishing with multiple $300 sticks).

 

[moosekid]

it's what's for supper

 

[moosekid]

This reminds me of a conversation me and my wife had the other day after she read some some post on the local house-wives forum

Please elaborate on this with a URL.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Please elaborate on this with a URL.

Man, has this thread taken a turn. Pick any town in NJ or south NY, the house wives have a Facebook page. I don't do Facebook period, because why? You will be the only heterosexual male trolling those pages, aside from a couple of whipped dads contributing. My wife is the conduit for me hearing all of the stupidity on there.

You're a young buck from Crooklyn with no kids I take it, so why expose yourself to that bullshit needlessly? To give a an example of the suburban bullshit that comes with children, my kids elementary school has a "wellness committee", basically a bunch of women with no scientific education or training who have self-appointed themselves as experts in all things health. Its the usual shit, like gluten is bad (only if you have Ciliacs disease), processed sugar is bad (only thing they're right about), and vaccines are unnecessary (wrong on so many levels), and soy is good (soy is the worst thing to give a child). I overheard one of them while picking up my kid in after care telling a group of women that you can get the flu from the injectable vaccine, and to stay away. As a representative of the big, bad, pharmaceutical industry, I had to correct her and tell her that only the inhalable vaccine uses live virus, and that there is no physical way to get the flu from the injectable version. And I also took the opportunity to tell them that they're kids are allergic to peanuts and everything else under the sun because they'be been eating soy since they're 2. Since then, I'm done, I avoid those women and conversations like the plague. You raise your kids the way you want, and take responsibility for it.

 

[njcaddis]

Striped bass are also extending their range further and further north. In the process, they are contributing to the decimation of Altantic salmon populations and destroying local economies that depend on the salmon fishery.

Another post talks about an increase of tick born disease being proof that climate change is happening. I hear birds are not migrating as far south as they use to, lizards mating habits are endangered because of the heat. . . I guess all this wildlife got fooled by the fake media.