freshwater FF thinking of salt

[rcturner99]

Im a freshwater FF for a number of years. Thinking of going to salt. It would be all surf casting, probabrly around Sandy Hook. A few questions:

1) Are you trying to get the fly way out so you re doing these huge false casts? Or are you targetting closer to shore than with spin?

2) Is there a fatigue factor having to false cast a large rod rather than a single cast spin?

3) Is the cost to startup about the same?

Thanks for any help.

Rich

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Distance in the salt is more important than, say, trout fishing. But accuracy is less important unless we're talking about sight fishing for bonefish where you need both distance and accuracy. For Sandy Hook and the NJ beaches, get yourself a 9 foot 9 or 10 weight rod and a reel with a decent drag and 175+ yards of backing. More backing if you chase the Albies a lot. Sometimes the fish are right in the wash and only a few feet away and other times you need to cast 100 feet.

No need to do a lot of false casting at any time when you fly fish - salt or fresh. Learn to load the rod and shoot the line out. I suggest shooting heads coupled to a long running line which will quickly load the rod and allow you to shoot a long amount of line out on your front casts.

Not sure what costs you are comparing. Spin to fly? You can get by on a fairly inexpensive outfit or spend a load of cash for either technique. Flies are easy in the salt and actually cheaper than lures most of the time. Deceivers and Clousers will make up the bulk of your fishing needs and remember to build yourself a stripping basket and have some wire leaders on hand for those pesky razor lips (blues).

 

[mbwmn]

A) are you fishing the bay side or in the surf? (I hear the nude beach is a hot spot!)

B) what about sinking or intermediate shooting heads, or is a floating line more useful?

TIA-

 

[Rusty Spinner]

A) are you fishing the bay side or in the surf? (I hear the nude beach is a hot spot!)

B) what about sinking or intermediate shooting heads, or is a floating line more useful?

TIA-

Question A answer is yes, both. Check the winds and the tide and the bait. Let those dictate where you fish each time you go out. Watch for diving birds, fish breaking the surface, etc. as you drive along the road towards North Beach. Nude beach is full of mostly ugly fat people so don't say you weren't warned. It is also not very good most of the times for fishing, check out the False Hook and fishing beach or the beaches to the south with your binoculars as you drive north (or south).

Answer for question B is that you will use an intermediate sink head or line 75%+ of the time from the beach. If you buy two heads, buy the intermediate head first, a faster sink second, a super fast head third and then, and only if you have plenty of cash burning a hole in your pocket, buy the floating head. I have yet to use my floating head after 3 years even when I fish poppers. The intermediate sink will allow you to fish poppers.

 

[trico mike]

I agree with rusty about the intermeidiate line. As far as casting you really don't need to cast to far. I do most of my fishing at night and working the fly almost parallel to the beach can be deadley. During the day when the fish push the bait up on the beach 20 to 30 foot casts are all you need. That being said I use a spey rod sometimes and over hand cast it when I feel I need to really throw some line, but the majority of your fishing will be in close. The sand eels are starting to show and bass fishing is getting better by the day. Get out at night on the last 2 hours of incoming and work a sand eel pattern along the wash don't expect really hard strikes more like little bumps. Good luck now is the time.

 

[flyin]

one important thing to remember: when you get a strike, you should strip-set, don't just lift the rod. Whether barbless or not, you need to drive the point home, then lift the rod.

Just MHO

 

[Rusty Spinner]

one important thing to remember: when you get a strike, you should strip-set, don't just lift the rod. Whether barbless or not, you need to drive the point home, then lift the rod.

Just MHO

Great advice. I don't "lift the rod" after two strong strip-strikes with my left hand, I bend hard and fast at the waist driving my hook home using the butt end of the rod. Lifting to set your hook on big, powerful fish can cause broken rod tips! Just my two cents...

 

[draku007]

I'm planing on going to Sandy Hook area on Nov 27 for my first salt water fly fishing trip. I recently got 9wt rod for salmon and I figures I could use in in the salt for now. I'll probably need new salt water line, leader and some flies. By reading the posts looks like Intermediate line will be my best choice for now. What color? What type of leader if any? What flies?
I would like to go early morning or late night/early morning - is that a good time for salt water?
Where can I find tide info and what's the best tide condition for fishing?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[flyin]

late night into early morning is generally the best time for the salt.

wxtide is a tool you can download for tides, but there are plenty of tide charts available on line if you search.

you'll want some flies of different sizes, but generally long thin profile to match sand eels by Nov 27 IMO...others can give you other suggestions. Some flatwings, long deceivers, larger clousers would all be good.

leaders don't need to be fancy, 5' straight 20lb mono will work fine, though again, some prefer to have better leaders... the only change I sometimes have is a 2' heavy butt of 50lb mono, with blood knot to the 20lb mono (or floro) leader of 3' or so. This will work better with heavy flies (big poppers and long flies), not needed for smaller (3-4") flies.

Rusty Spinner though can give you a lot more suggestions, though I think he often goes with his 2 hand rod(s?).

As to the line, any intermediate or float/with a sink tip will be fine. Stripers are not line-shy.

just a suggestion, you may want to check reports on salt boards about the sandy hook vs areas to the south.... and go where the fish are being caught. in the salt, don't fall in love with one place.

 

[draku007]

There is a good chance that I'll be going salt water tomorrow for the first time. Does anyone know where the fish are and what flies to use lately?
Looking at the tides chart for Sandy Hook looks like at 10:30am will be highest tide tomorrow. When are the fish most active in respect to tides?
It's my first fly fishing and 2nd slat water ever trip. Any tips as far as location, time and flies will be highly appreciated.

 

[flyin]

most guys like to fish sandy hook on the outgoing tide, up near north beach or the rips (false hook).

that said, I know of a large body of fish that was at Seaside/Island beach and Long Beach Island last week, apparently just showed up at Brigantine this week.

there are guys still picking off fish from Sandy Hook on down...

 

[Rusty Spinner]

There is a good chance that I'll be going salt water tomorrow for the first time. Does anyone know where the fish are and what flies to use lately?
Looking at the tides chart for Sandy Hook looks like at 10:30am will be highest tide tomorrow. When are the fish most active in respect to tides?
It's my first fly fishing and 2nd slat water ever trip. Any tips as far as location, time and flies will be highly appreciated.

If you can, get there at sunrise. You'll need a pass to get onto the Hook before 1st light. Fish like a moving tide, sometimes on the flood and sometimes on the fall so getting there at/by 7am will give you a couple hours of flood and moving water. Stick around after the top of the high tide and see what's doing on the dropping tide.

As for flies, anything that is chartreuse and white will do just fine. Look for the bait present. If sand eels, something long and skinny. If peanut bunker, look for a fatter profile fly. Don't worry about over-thinking the fly thing, it's far easier than trout. But have wire bite tippet or very heavy mono of the blues are around of all those flies will be quickly departed. Let us know how you make out, I understand the beaches got slammed by the last noreaster. That could be good or bad for the fish, I like lots of sand bars and cuts where water moves a lot. Great ambush spots for predators, especially stripers waiting for some hapless bait to swim by disoriented.

If you're struggling at first, try varying your retrieves. Crawl the fly along the bottom, strip it fast, make irregular retrieves, etc. until you find what's working.

Tight lines!

 

[dperrott]

During the Hook's "open" hours you don't need the parking pass. I know it "closes" now at 8 pm. I think they "open" at 6 am. You could call the visitor center to find out.

I may try my luck there Sunday morning. My luck has been bad so far.

 

[Petergoodman]

This is boring info, but crucial. If you are used to FW, you have some additional things to worry about re Salt:
* NEVER put your reel down in the sand. Get set up at the car. If it gets sand in the reel, stop and clean it out. Or maybe get a new reel.
* ALWAYS when you get home wash everything down with fresh water. Hose off (some people put it in the shower) the rod. Do not hose off the reel - you might push grit into the reel farther. Instead take line down to the backing off into a bucket of warm water. The take the spool off and place both spool and reel in same bucket. Swirl it around a bit and let it sit a few hours.

If you do these two steps your equipment will last a long time.

Next - it is very easy to forget that waves can knock you down and take you out, especially when fish are on or around. Be aware of waves - be conservative esp. if you are new at this. If you plan on getting up on jetties, ALWAYS wear Korkers or similar studded footwear. The rocks are slippery, and a wave only mid-calf high can sweep you into the water. Which in the dark with no one to hear you scream...you get the picture. Best bet - go with a buddy. More fun to share the beer after anyway.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Good advice. If you're down at the Hook tomorrow jetties are not an issue and the waves should be very low on the beach with a light westerly, northwesterly wind. But I've seen guys smash their heads slipping on jetty rocks before and get totally knocked over in waves many, many times. Watch the rips if you walk up North Beach to False Hook or if you walk to the Hook itself. They run close to the beach at times.

 

[draku007]

If I'll go (and looks like I will :hubbahubba I'll be going with my wife. There is no way I can be there before sunrise or early morning. I'll try to get there by 10-11 am and I'll try to catch something on outgoing tide. The purpose of this trip (besides catching monster fish) is to get wet in salt before my thanksgiving trip.

Do I need any additional stamps/permits to fish salt?

 

[Rusty Spinner]

If I'll go (and looks like I will :hubbahubba I'll be going with my wife. There is no way I can be there before sunrise or early morning. I'll try to get there by 10-11 am and I'll try to catch something on outgoing tide. The purpose of this trip (besides catching monster fish) is to get wet in salt before my thanksgiving trip.

Do I need any additional stamps/permits to fish salt?

Although you're likely in the car as I write this, there are currently no saltwater licenses/stamps. Stripers are 2 @ 28+" for NJ regs. Pretty much any other fish you'll catch on a fly rod from the surf (bluefish) you can keep and eat.

 

[draku007]

No I'm not in the car and I won't be going today. I was hoping for some sun so my wife could go with me. No sun = no wife = no go :down:

 

[golden beetle]

This post, draku, is very depressing. I am not married, yet, although I plan on it. Do you other married men need to bring your wife on fly fishing trips, and only are allowed out when it is sunny?

This post opened my eyes - perhaps I need to discuss a few things with my girl, although truth be told I am returning from a fishing trip with the dog, and got no grief for it and would run like hell if she gave me grief.

 

[mbwmn]

No I'm not in the car and I won't be going today. I was hoping for some sun so my wife could go with me. No sun = no wife = no go :down:

mine's got a 50degree rule: less than 50=no fishing. so we went to a fly tying show instead.

 

[draku007]

I end up going and got to Sandy Hook around 2pm. Fished for about 2h and I was either doing something wrong or the water conditions weren't that good for fly fishing because I didn't enjoy it at all. The waves were 4-6 ft high and before I was able to retrieve my line my fly was already somewhere on the beach carried by the waves. I was tying to get deeper into the water but than I was struggling with the waves and my stripping basket was full of sand and water.
Now I have a dilemma if I should give it another try this Friday or should I spend the day in Catskills.

I was fishing at Gateway Park Recreation Area and two guys next to me hooked 2 strippers on spinning as I was leaving.

 

[kindanewbie77]

This post, draku, is very depressing. I am not married, yet, although I plan on it. Do you other married men need to bring your wife on fly fishing trips, and only are allowed out when it is sunny?

This post opened my eyes - perhaps I need to discuss a few things with my girl, although truth be told I am returning from a fishing trip with the dog, and got no grief for it and would run like hell if she gave me grief.

No we don't(speaking as a married man)....although sometime it helps to alleviate the pain of having them home alone all day while we were out fishing. Not sure how long you have been with your girl(woman) but sooner or later you will come to the realization that if she is happy, so are you!

 

[draku007]

I have nothing to say about this, other than that you dudes are some serious eunuchs.

Draku, you are taking up salt fishing because your wife likes it better on the beach than streamside.

So sad. So very sad.

1. I love my wife and I love fly fishing. So there is nothing like fishing WITH my wife.
2. The only reason I went salt is because I have new 9wt outfit that I used only once for salmon. All I needed for salt was new line and flies. My wife had nothing to do with it.

 

[golden beetle]

Draku, you seem to be a nice guy. Get the new issue of fly rod and reel. Good stuff in there about the damage we are doing to salt water ecosystems. In addition, there's about 20 pages devoted to steelhead fishing.

I have never fished for steelhead, but am inclined to ask AK for a day on the SR in exchange for some small water fishing in Jersey or perhaps the Catskills, where I am in my element. Starting with steel makes sense tho, as reel and line maintentance issues should be your sole problem on salt water - on fresh water, you can master the 8 or 9 weight rod, so that you won't have to think about the rod when you cast it into the ocean.

Good luck, my friend.

 

[Petergoodman]

Two issues:

1. Wife. Depends on the wife. If wife has no other life but you, and hates the outdoors, you are screwed. If she has lots of other stuff to do, she has her life, you have yours (fishing), and you do stuff together. I am lucky - first wedding anniversary she got me a Winston blank. Then again, use common sense. I have a friend who keeps forgetting to tell wife he went fishing - one time we were driving back from West Branch at 10:30PM and he suddenly remembered he was supposed to be home fo dinner with another couple. I started salt when the first baby was born - inlaws live at the shore, and I guessed it would be easier to say "honey, lets take the baby down to your Mom" then "I am going north and will see you around midnight".

2. Not having fun fly fishing in the salt. After years of beating my head against the wall I have decided that at least from the beach there are days when it makes no sense to fly fish - wind, waves, bait pushed offshore the day before by wind, etc. One time was on a jetty in Manasquan with bass blitzing 30 feet away - with a 40 knot wind making the longest possible cast with a double haul maybe 20 feet. If I had some metal to toss...? Learning to mend line in surf is an art, and if you are new you will have some trouble. Best advice I can give you to shorten the learning curve is to hire a guide - there are a number of good ones, but a place to start is Shore Catch Guides. Don't just hire a guide to catch fish - be up front that your goal is to learn how to catch fish - a god guide knows that most of us cannot afford a guide on a weekly basis, and if we get some skills we will hire them again.

 

[flyin]

During the Hook's "open" hours you don't need the parking pass. I know it "closes" now at 8 pm. I think they "open" at 6 am. You could call the visitor center to find out.

I may try my luck there Sunday morning. My luck has been bad so far.

the official daytime hours are "official sunrise" to "official sunset" and they have ticketed a few minutes either side, though there is usually some leeway in the evening... usually.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

the official daytime hours are "official sunrise" to "official sunset" and they have ticketed a few minutes either side, though there is usually some leeway in the evening... usually.

I rarely buy my night pass. In the years prior to the 9/11 attacks, they were much more lenient, especially early in the morning. You could arrive in the pitch black and get a pink pass from the guard at the brick building. But now they make you wait at that yellow brick building until "legal light" and they chase you out or ticket you right at dark. You can get away with early arrival and late departure at the beach pull offs south of the brick building most of the time. You are correct about "first legal light/sunrise" and that time changes daily.

 

[allen]

Unless you're set on fishing North Beach or the tip, there are a couple of places just south of the hook that you can fish before sun-up. Just as or more productive too. I mostly fish the inside of SH at night during the summer.

 

[flyin]

Unless you're set on fishing North Beach or the tip, there are a couple of places just south of the hook that you can fish before sun-up. Just as or more productive too. I mostly fish the inside of SH at night during the summer.

what he said las: