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Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!

Fracking is completely safe....

All you're doing here Tom is outlining a best-case scenario for tax breaks and a worst case scenario for subsidies.

Believe me, there are plenty of municipalities and state governments that have gotten shafted by a corporation after giving it a generous tax break. It happens in NYC all the time. They promise jobs and other community benefits but don't deliver. Eventually it turns out there was a back-room handshake between the corporation and city agencies. Everybody wins, yes, except the public. The federal government gives enormous tax breaks all the time supposedly to spur industry that actually amount to a wealth transfer from you and me to private corporations. It's not all as rosy as you paint it.

And there are plenty of subsidies that have worked well. See my next post...

It actually is. The auto plants built in the south. The Tax Incentives were a key factor for development to the auto industry in the south. You use NYC as an example. Look at the source of the governing body. Most small towns do not have the ultra corrupt government officials that big liberal cities have. Or the red tape. Tax incentives work in these communities because they have pure intentions.

Most subsides for start up industries are emplace because the company can not find resources from the private sector. It might be a phenomenal idea but lacks commercial economic value because of the marketability and expense of the product. In other words investors would never throw money into a black whole with little or no return on the investment. Our idiots in government will do just that.

Here is a example from my own family. I have a close relative very high ranking member in the Republican Party. They owned an environmental company. This family member was an engineer and had a fantastic invention and a working proto type. This machine would use high temperature plasma to refine any non radioactive toxic substance to an inert state. During the Bush admin the company was subsidized to develop the technology. The problem with it was that the technology was so expensive and so energy cost prohibitive to maintain the plasma. No private investors wanted to dump their money into a black hole. As soon as Obama was elected subsidies were no longer available and the company failed. This is why subsidies suck. They are usually given to black whole ideas like my relative that the private sector wants no part of.
 
Here's a good website to look at, totally interactive, and doesn't require much reading at all, or thinking.

Perfect for you guys.

Its an unbiased site, so its totally objective and tells both sides of the story.

Dangers of Fracking
 
That's way too much of a generalization and again it disregards the costs of federal, state, & local regulations and statutes. These all represent a recurring cost to most businesses. If the gov favors one business over another it's clearly a bad thing. I agree small business take a beating which is bizarre since they create most of the new jobs. The difference is that large corporations are seen as creating more of an ecosystem for additional business. Tough for a small business to emulate.
Been to many city planning meetings. Unfortunately. :crap:

Look, it depends on whether it's a buyers market or a sellers market. Small businesses can get extorted when they want to open. Even more so once they've opened, and are dependent on staying in a municipality. In this case, it can be asymmetrical: they need local govt. more than it needs them.

But when a city wants to attract a big corporation, it's the opposite. A buyer's market from the standpoint of the corporation. Localities will bend over backwards. And whatever they give up is just layered onto the obscene amount of tax loopholes that corporations already exploit, producing a negative tax rate in many instances, and making the US effective corporate tax rate far lower than our European competitors.

So small businesses and taxpayers lose and big business wins.

Read this
if you want to learn more about how this works.
 
So how did this thread get sidetracked away from its most important point?

I think I did it. Put bees in TomFly and MacFly's bonnet somehow, and now we're in a really boring debate about subsidies, tax cuts, and what, now regulation? Zzzzzz.

Tapping out. Back to fracking.
 
So how did this thread get sidetracked away from its most important point?

The subject has been commented on so many times that just about every point it was possible to make, and every opinion it was possible to express, has be made so many times that the discussion was getting so predictable it was boring.

I'm not saying that the new direction the topic has taken, is going to be any different.

OT: Has anyone been tough enough to go fishing since the cold weather started?
 
The subject has been commented on so many times that just about every point it was possible to make, and every opinion it was possible to express, has be made so many times that the discussion was getting so predictable it was boring.

I'm not saying that the new direction the topic has taken, is going to be any different.

OT: Has anyone been tough enough to go fishing since the cold weather started?

No, the most important point wasn't about fracking, but the boundless hypocrisy of condemning a lifestyle one also embraces... ;)
 
No, the most important point wasn't about fracking, but the boundless hypocrisy of condemning a lifestyle one also embraces... ;)
That's also been "done to death". Not just here, but at just about any forum that permits off topic and/or political discussion.

How many times can we re-word the same opinion, and still maintain interest.
As far as I can tell, no one has ever changed their mind because of something posted on the internet.
 
So is Fracking completely safe? NO
But is anything completely safe?

Lets take this thread somewhere else?

Is anything completely safe?
 
So is Fracking completely safe? NO
But is anything completely safe?

Lets take this thread somewhere else?

Is anything completely safe?

Good question. Let's start with this one: Is is completely safe to eat at the McD's where you man (I use that term lightly) the drive-in window?

Yes, I said drive-in! :rofl:
 
Good question. Let's start with this one: Is is completely safe to eat at the McD's where you man (I use that term lightly) the drive-in window?

Yes, I said drive-in! :rofl:

Definitely NOT....
Can't wait for those fly swap fools to show up:)
 
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