Cattle Quarantined

[Joe D]

I wonder if this has an affect on deer, waterfowl and other birds & wildlife...




COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
Dept. of Environmental Protection
Commonwealth News Bureau
Room 308, Main Capitol Building
Harrisburg PA., 17120


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
07/1/2010


CONTACT:

Justin Fleming, Department of Agriculture

717-787-5085


Cattle from Tioga County Farm Quarantined after Coming in Contact with Natural Gas Drilling Wastewater


HARRISBURG -- The Department of Agriculture announced today that it has quarantined cattle from a Tioga County farm after a number of cows came into contact with drilling wastewater from a nearby natural gas operation.

Agriculture Secretary Russell Redding said uncertainty over the quantity of wastewater the cattle may have consumed warranted the quarantine in order to protect the public from eating potentially contaminated beef.

“Cattle are drawn to the taste of salty water,” said Redding. “Drilling wastewater has high salinity levels, but it also contains dangerous chemicals and metals. We took this precaution in order to protect the public from consuming any of this potentially contaminated product should it be marketed for human consumption.”

Redding said 28 head of cattle were included in the quarantine, including 16 cows, four heifers and eight calves. Those cattle were out to pasture in late April and early May when a drilling wastewater holding pond on the farm of Don and Carol Johnson leaked, sending the contaminated water into an adjacent field where it created a pool. The Johnsons had noticed some seepage from the pond for as long as two months prior to the leak.

The holding pond was collecting flowback water from the hydraulic fracturing process on a well being drilled by East Resources Inc.

Grass was killed in a roughly 30- x 40-foot area where the wastewater had pooled. Although no cows were seen drinking the wastewater, tracks were found throughout the pool. The wet area extended about 200-300 feet into the pasture.

The cattle had potential access to the pool for a minimum of three days until the gas company placed a snow fence around the pool to restrict access.

Subsequent tests of the wastewater found that it contained chloride, iron, sulfate, barium, magnesium, manganese, potassium, sodium, strontium and calcium.

Redding said the main element of concern is the heavy metal strontium, which can be toxic to humans, especially in growing children. The metal takes a long time to pass through an animal’s system because it is preferentially deposited in bone and released in the body at varying rates, dependent on age, growth status and other factors. Live animal testing was not possible because tissue sampling is required.

The secretary also added that the quarantine will follow the recommended guidelines from the Food Animal Residue Avoidance and Depletion Program, as follows:
• Adult animals: hold from food chain for 6 months.
• Calves exposed in utero: hold from food chain for 8 months.
• Growing calves: hold from food chain for 2 years.

In response to the leak, the Department of Environmental Protection issued a notice of violation to East Resources Inc. and required further sampling and site remediation. DEP is evaluating the final cleanup report and is continuing its investigation of operations at the drilling site, as well as the circumstances surrounding the leaking holding pond.

 

[mbwmn]

one more reason to support c&R fishing I guess...(sigh)...

 

[Ryan R]

Didn't somebody say this drilling & its surrounding activites was safe BUT that accidents sometimes happen? Yes accidents will happen and so far they really seem to be mounting up and we're just getting really started with Marcellus Shale gas drilling here. I can't help but laugh at any suggestion that our state agencies have enough personnel to provide adequate oversight and regulation. The coal mining legacy all over again I'm afraid. :crap:

 

[Future Fanatic]

Didn't somebody say this drilling & its surrounding activites was safe BUT that accidents sometimes happen? Yes accidents will happen and so far they really seem to be mounting up and we're just getting really started with Marcellus Shale gas drilling here. I can't help but laugh at any suggestion that our state agencies have enough personnel to provide adequate oversight and regulation. The coal mining legacy all over again I'm afraid. :crap:

Oh, Ryan...

If we posted every "accident" from every industrial/manufacturing/etc., etc. activity that took place, you guys would argue we needed to ban them all. But, of course we don't do that; somehow gas exploration is "special".

 

[Ryan R]

Oh, Ryan...

If we posted every "accident" from every industrial/manufacturing/etc., etc. activity that took place, you guys would argue we needed to ban them all. But, of course we don't do that; somehow gas exploration is "special".

"You guys?" I don't believe I've ever called for banning gas drilling but I have expressed my concern that at least some states I think are not prepared or currently capable of providing adequate oversight and regulation for these companies that can and are putting less than a stellar effort into maintaining safeguards.

 

[Future Fanatic]

"You guys?" I don't believe I've ever called for banning gas drilling but I have expressed my concern that at least some states I think are not prepared or currently capable of providing adequate oversight and regulation for these companies that can and are putting less than a stellar effort into maintaining safeguards.

Sorry, "some of these guys".

I agree 100% on the oversight...

But do they have enough people to oversee what happens NOW in OTHER industries?

Bottom line is that the states need to hire MORE people. Increase fees for EVERY industry that requires this oversight. They will increase their prices to pay the fees and each of us pays a tiny amount to make us all safer. It seems so easy. Does anyone know why it isn't?

 

[Ryan R]

Sorry, "some of these guys".

I agree 100% on the oversight...

But do they have enough people to oversee what happens NOW in OTHER industries? From my experience, PA doesn't seem to. Or at the very least PA doesn't seem to have the proper regulation in place in certain, not all, instances.

Bottom line is that the states need to hire MORE people. Increase fees for EVERY industry that requires this oversight. They will increase their prices to pay the fees and each of us pays a tiny amount to make us all safer. It seems so easy. Does anyone know why it isn't? IMO one the biggest things my state, and any state engaging in this gas-drilling, needs is a sufficient SEVERANCE TAX to go along proper regulation. Why? Because accidents will happen and contamination will occur at least to some extent, and the state agencies can't possibly hire enough people to oversee everything all the time.

Those are my opinions on it anyway. Happy 4th of July. (remember, if a gas well explodes just think of it as fireworks and enjoy. jk)

 

[tompg]

FF, Will you ever stop using other wrongs to justify gas drilling. We could discuss lots of wrongs around the world but this is after all a fishing site. Therefore, we tend to stick to issues that can affect fishing. It's not that we don't care about other accidents. We just care more about ones that can have a detrimental effect on our fishing and drinking. Gas drilling is special on this forum.

 

[mbwmn]

If a base station for a ladder to Mars were proposed that could affect the same (hundreds of thousands of) square miles and drinking water supply for several million people there are those of us that would object to that too.

How many leasing groups (landowners) are now calling emergency meetings to see if they're covered for livestock problems? How many are just now finding out that a lease may require commercial insurance and not just homeowners/farm insurance???

 

[sandfly]

This farm is only a mile from me, and a 1/2 mile from pine creek..
the gas should be posted that is some very nasty stuff they are putting in the ground.
Future Come on out and we will give a tour how bad it is...
Safe Guards ??? What SAFE GUARDS ???????????????????

 

[Stonefly]

As some one who has been in the insurance industry for over 30 years I can tell you that a homeowners policy WILL NOT cover any liability related to a commercial activity on residential property other than a home office.

Nor will it cover liability of any form of spill to the owners property. And as it is a commercial operation it will not provide liability to cover damage to a neighbor's property or for clean up.

like wise a farm Ag policy will not cover a oil well under its policy or contamination to the owners property or liability to property of others from the oil drilling or oil production. I would have to review the farm policy, but if the farmers cows have to be put down, his farm policy covering live stock, might not pay his losses, if he is allowing drilling, and knew that the retaining pond was leaking.

I would hope that any and all leases made with these oil companies cover the property owners as named insureds under the oil companies policies.

A Commercial policy to cover the waste and liability resulting from the shale oil drilling isn't going to be cheap by any means!

 

[Eagle Claw]

Wait a minute Joe D,,you obviously did not see Future Fanatics thread about some professor who said this toxic stuff is all a bunch of bull shit.

QUOTE:
A SCIENTIST steps up and shares some factual information and he MUST stand to gain... Even if he is, what he says (based upon education and experience) CAN'T POSSIBLY be true. He got into his field, because he does not care if people are affected by pollution...

He's wrong and you guys are right.

Thanks for the laugh.

UNQUOTE:
I think Future should sip the Cool Aid and prove the nut job professor is right and we are all wrong. Now is your chance Future, make asses out of us, be a man and take the Cool Aid.

 

[Future Fanatic]

Wait a minute Joe D,,you obviously did not see Future Fanatics thread about some professor who said this toxic stuff is all a bunch of bull shit.

QUOTE:
A SCIENTIST steps up and shares some factual information and he MUST stand to gain... Even if he is, what he says (based upon education and experience) CAN'T POSSIBLY be true. He got into his field, because he does not care if people are affected by pollution...

He's wrong and you guys are right.

Thanks for the laugh.

UNQUOTE:
I think Future should sip the Cool Aid and prove the nut job professor is right and we are all wrong. Now is your chance Future, make asses out of us, be a man and take the Cool Aid.

Can you NOT read?

Did he say it was a "bunch of bullshit"?

Did I say it was a bunch of "bullshit"?

Here ARE a few quotes of what he said:


"Siegel, perhaps the star speaker at the event, said he "felt compelled to speak out for good information" after hearing environmentalists raise concerns he thinks are invalid. He presented a list of the "not-problems," of hydraulic fracturing.

The radioactivity of shale cuttings, he said, is "almost unmeasurable" and won't pose a danger if it is placed in area landfills. Water extraction needed to fracture shale beds is also not an issue, Siegel said, noting that the millions of gallons needed for each well pale in comparison to other uses and are not a threat to waterways.

Siegel added that drinking water supplies are "essentially disconnected" from the Marcellus Shale, and the "microscopic little cracks" created by hydraulic fracturing in shale beds a mile deep pose little danger to the residents and landowners above.

Although Siegel pointed to two concerns he does have -- methane migration that can occur when wells are improperly cemented and the relatively high salinity of the waste water that emerges from a well after it is fractured -- he said they are relatively minor compared to the hyperbolic claims of those opposed to drilling and expressed confidence the gas industry is finding solutions."

But of course YOU as an "ANTI" just twist it to what you want to move toward your goal. "Who cares if I LIE?" right?

It seems it is you who drank the Anti's "Kool-aid". "Nut job professor"? HE HAS to be, right? I mean, you must MAKE him be a "nut job" in order to keep believing what the ANTI's are telling you... THINK for yourself... I mean what REAL evidence do you have that he is a "nut job"?

 

[mbwmn]

As some one who has been in the insurance industry for over 30 years I can tell you that a homeowners policy WILL NOT cover any liability related to a commercial activity on residential property other than a home office.

Not to worry...no insurance will be needed. Who would bother to keep insurance on a property that has good strong lease and a producing well? Any mortgages were paid off w/ the lease money, and the drilling co. would certainly step up and make good for the cows and all the ground contamination, right? If not, a few cows and some ground contamination are a small price to pay to ensure my supply of gas! Damn the liability. DrillDrillDrill. The property owner has certainly made the price of a few cows many, many times over...

 

[Future Fanatic]

The property owner has certainly made the price of a few cows many, many times over...

Oh the poor cows!

Let's delve into the claim that the cows MIGHT have slaked their thirsts with that toxic Frack water...

The contention that cows(like humans) enjoy the taste of salt, is fair enough.

Drinking water has a salinity of 100-1000 ppm
Sea water has a salinity of about 35,000 ppm (Have you ever swallowed any seawater? I suspect the cows would have the same reaction.)
Frack water has a salinity of 100,000- 200,000ppm

Cows will readily drink water up to about 2000ppm of salt. At 2500ppm they tend to stop drinking it.

What do you think the possibility is that the cows drank that spilled frack water that was up to 6 times as salty as sea water(evaporation might have made it even more salty)?

Me either.

Does anyone know of any evidence that given a choice cows WILL drink Frack water?

Let's not let a thing like evidence stand in the way of a good narrative, right?

 

[mbwmn]

I wonder why my uncle puts these outside the barn...
50 lbs Trace Mineralized Salt Block with Selenium Antioxidant - 2189818 | Tractor Supply Company
..must be for the cats and dogs?

It never occurred to me that the cows would drink the fluid, even in a year w/ below average rainfall. Don't forget though, these are stupid PA cows. Why I bet they haven't read the NYSGEIS! They're not like humans that have gone w/out water for a few days and drink ocean water knowing it will kill them...

Now, would you like some PA cheddar and crackers? Maybe some ice cream? Would your children like some milk and cookies?

I'm sure all the PA farmers that might experience a spill are smart enough to realize that their livestock may have been affected, and would never try to send milk (or beef) out for consumption. It's not like they would just think that cows don't like frack water...These are just more rules that interfere w/ a property owner collecting the money he is rightfully entitled to.

Now, after the 'cleanup' when the farmer tries to put the spill area back into hay/corn/soybean production does the corn come out blue? I really like those blue corn chips....mmmm....a litte PA cheddar, some blue corn chips, salsa made w/ fresh farm grown tomatoes...a great late night snack, and I won't need to turn on the lights to see what I'm eating!

I suppose this is nothing more than a narrative...just because there were hoof prints in the spill area means nothing...just because you manage a farm w/ livestock and consider it insignificant (or a slim possibility?) and would think nothing of sending possibly contaminated beef or milk out to market for your neighbors' children to consume means nothing, and I would never let THAT get in the way of a good narrative.

 

[mbwmn]

This farm is only a mile from me, and a 1/2 mile from pine creek..

Sad that the feds have a seafood consumption warning. Will PA be doing the same soon?
By the way sandfly, this couldn't possibly happen in NY.

 

[Future Fanatic]

Mbwmn, I think this is as over the top as I've ever seen you. It's almost as if you are trying to impress some everionmental group superiors with how zealous you can be.

I wonder why my uncle puts these outside the barn...
50 lbs Trace Mineralized Salt Block with Selenium Antioxidant - 2189818 | Tractor Supply Company
..must be for the cats and dogs?

Yes, it is a solid block of salt that the cows will lick. Have you ever licked the salt off a potato chip? Good yes? Have you ever gulped down sea water? Different then when you licked that potato chip, yes?

"must be for the cats and dogs..." Just a ridiculous would be slam, mbwmn... really.

It never occurred to me that the cows would drink the fluid, even in a year w/ below average rainfall. Don't forget though, these are stupid PA cows. Why I bet they haven't read the NYSGEIS! They're not like humans that have gone w/out water for a few days and drink ocean water knowing it will kill them...

Even if it had been below average rainfall in April and May, it said that the cows had access to the affected area for THREE DAYS. These animals certainly had access to other more palatable water. Nobody saw them drink any of the leaked frack fluid, either.

Now, would you like some PA cheddar and crackers? Maybe some ice cream? Would your children like some milk and cookies?
I'm sure all the PA farmers that might experience a spill are smart enough to realize that their livestock may have been affected, and would never try to send milk (or beef) out for consumption. It's not like they would just think that cows don't like frack water...These are just more rules that interfere w/ a property owner collecting the money he is rightfully entitled to.

Silliness...

Now, after the 'cleanup' when the farmer tries to put the spill area back into hay/corn/soybean production does the corn come out blue? I really like those blue corn chips....mmmm....a litte PA cheddar, some blue corn chips, salsa made w/ fresh farm grown tomatoes...a great late night snack, and I won't need to turn on the lights to see what I'm eating!

More silliness...

I suppose this is nothing more than a narrative...just because there were hoof prints in the spill area means nothing...just because you manage a farm w/ livestock and consider it insignificant (or a slim possibility?) and would think nothing of sending possibly contaminated beef or milk out to market for your neighbors' children to consume means nothing, and I would never let THAT get in the way of a good narrative.

Hoof prints in the pasture is evidence that they WALKED THERE. It WAS THEIR PASTURE... Cows like to walk...

And to top it off, NOW you have me killing children.

Do you not even see how low you've gone to demonize a person who asks only for evidence? Sad, sad, sad...

I hope the higher ups give you a good ole pat on the back.

 

[hatchman]

Having followed this debate for awhile and know some people who have gotten
jobs from the gas companies and some people with gas leases ,I find myself shaking my head whenever I read people on this forum vehemently support gas drilling knowing full well the ecological impact it will have in such a pristine
and nationall treasure as the Upper Delaware region.The only thing I see are dollar signs in the eyes of the pro drilling proponents .The average person has no idea of the money involved here.I talked to one person who's sister has a productive well on her property that she receives a $37k a month royalty check.When you give a person the opportunity to make more money in a month than they probably make in a year ,and without having to work for it ,most would not care what the gas companies use to extract the gas ,and will attack anyone against drilling like they are trying to steal their pot of gold that the gas companies have promised them. A well is not only 1 hole,they drill 1 hole straight down and 5 holes in different directions.What is also not told is that these wells have to be refracked every 10 years so the fracking will go on forever(every ten years) as long as the wells are active.The drilling in PA is
like a mad gold rush that does infuse money into some low income rural areas,but these jobs are not forever,and many of the workers are brought in from other states.It seems as if the gas companies are in a mad rush to drill as fast as possible to get as many wells operational just incase they get shutdown.

 

[hatchman]

Have no doubt though that there will be drilling in NY state.The Gas companies have very deep pockets and are currently involved in a media blitz all throughout the area,you can't turn on a local radio station without hearing a pro gas drilling commercial every few minutes touting the benefits of gas drilling.The main reason there will be drilling is that NY State is broke ,and having seen PA just institute a tax on natural gas ,They will play the game of instituting strict guidelines on drilling,but they would never let the chance to get their hands on that gas tax revenue slip through their fingers.Environmentalists can scream and protest all they want ,but in the real world the one who shows up with the biggest briefcase full of cash usually wins.

 

[Eagle Claw]

I agree with everything you say and I am against drilling but wonder how many people, myself included would cave in when the paycheck may mean
getting out of debt, having everything you always dreamed about, took care of everyone in your family and close friends and could move to some paradise afterwards to live out your life exactly as you want with plenty to spare for your future generations. The tough part is if your neighbor and friends do it
and you hold out, other than principal, what have you accomplished vs what you could have had. It really sucks. I do some part time telemarketing and I hate telemarketers, nobody is more rude than me when they call my house but if I don't take the $20 hr, someone else will so what would I accomplish by giving up the income. I think that is how many pro gas people may see the opportunity sad as it is.

 

[mbwmn]

Mbwmn, I think this is as over the top as I've ever seen you. It's almost as if you are trying to impress some everionmental group superiors with how zealous you can be.

I'm just getting cranked up!
I have no superiors.
The man who signs my paycheck would pave the planet if he could. I certainly don't give shit about what he thinks about my personal opinions.


Yes, it is a solid block of salt that the cows will lick. Have you ever licked the salt off a potato chip? Good yes? Have you ever gulped down sea water? Different then when you licked that potato chip, yes?

"must be for the cats and dogs..." Just a ridiculous would be slam, mbwmn... really.

Cows like salt then, yes? Given the weather (at least here in western NJ) over the last few weeks we already assume some evaporation? Let's ASSUME that they prefer their salt in solid form and didn't drink the frack fluid (because we have no evidence either way, only hoofprints).

I think it MAY have been possible for the cows to lick the now solid chemicals. Apparently the PA Dept of Ag thinks so too. While I've spent many, many years on an uncle's farm among his 130-150 Angus and Beefaloes I have to give the nod to the PA Dept of Ag. I understand you have achieved some measure of success with some sort of livestock, but I still gotta go w/ the Dept of Ag.

I suspect the affected (dead?) flora at the edges of the spill may be a special treat for cows, much like the spring time salted grass at the edge of NJ highways seems to be preferred by deer. But since no one saw a cow consume liquids or solids in the affected area it could not have happened. There is no evidence. They only like the frack fluid enough to walk around in it.

Do you think think the PA Dept of Ag is over-reacting?


Even if it had been below average rainfall in April and May, it said that the cows had access to the affected area for THREE DAYS. These animals certainly had access to other more palatable water. Nobody saw them drink any of the leaked frack fluid, either.

Assuming the cricks and springs out there haven't dried up like they have here in NJ? OK. (I said in my last post they probably didn't drink the fluid. Let's move on please.) By the way, the article said " a minimum of three days". Let's ASSUME that because there is no evidence to the contrary it was "limited to" 3 days. But, you've assumed that already?


Silliness...

More silliness...

Hoof prints in the pasture is evidence that they WALKED THERE. It WAS THEIR PASTURE... Cows like to walk...

They also like salt. Your previous post indicated they didn't like salt water over 2500ppm. I'll take your word on how you know about cow's personal taste in water salinity if you'll admit that they not only like salt(mineral) licks, but require them to ensure good health.

And to top it off, NOW you have me killing children.

Nope. Must be your guilt. I merely gave some farmers in PA credit for being smart enough to avoid feeding potentially contaminated beef, dairy products, and corn to children all due to a lack of evidence. I never said anyone would die. I never said you would kill them. I said you might (if you were in such a position) ignore the potential for contaminated products. I wrote:

>Now, would you like some PA cheddar and crackers? Maybe some ice >cream? Would your children like some milk and cookies?
>I'm sure all the PA farmers that might experience a spill are smart enough >to realize that their livestock may have been affected, and would never >try to send milk (or beef) out for consumption.
(I specifically mention PA here...)

I also wrote:
>Now, after the 'cleanup' when the farmer tries to put the spill area back >into hay/corn/soybean production does the corn come out blue? I really >like those blue corn chips....mmmm....a litte PA cheddar, some blue corn >chips, salsa made w/ fresh farm grown tomatoes...a great late night >snack, and I won't need to turn on the lights to see what I'm eating!
(I inferred here that the tomatoes, cheese and corn chips would glow in the dark. Funny, no? I really don't believe that part, do you?)


Additionally I wrote this:
>...just because you manage a farm w/ livestock and consider it >insignificant (or a slim possibility?) and would think nothing of >sending possibly contaminated beef or milk out to market for your >neighbors' children to consume means nothing, and I would never >let THAT get in the way of a good narrative."
(Do I need to include all the rest of my post here, or should we just assume that this says you kill children?)
This part says you 'would think nothing [wait, let me cut/paste it so I don't miss the part where I accuse you of killing children] "would think nothing of sending possibly contaminated beef or milk out to market for your neighbors' children to consume".

With such a glaring lack of eyewitnesses and EVIDENCE what else could I think, other than that you don't consider contamination a possibility and would therefore go about business as usual (if your business were meat/dairy/vegetable production) as I'm sure some PA farmers would not?

Do you not even see how low you've gone to demonize a person who asks only for evidence? Sad, sad, sad...

You don't need any help from me in this area! It is sad that you think this is all about you and how you're being demonized. Are you feeling demonized because you can't spend your money yet?

I'd like to move us away from your narrative about your guilt and demonetization and back to the subject of this spill, and the other spills that are coming. I really want to speak to all the spills that didn't get reported. I know how much you like evidence, and I do love a good narrative.


I hope the higher ups give you a good ole pat on the back.

I do this just because I don't understand why you keep coming to a predominately conservation-minded board trying to convince us all that you need to make more money by exposing others to high-risk practices of gas exploration and production. No pat on the back from imagined superiors is necessary.

It's readily apparent that your higher-ups all have pictures of dead presidents on them...

It's nice that we live in a nation that allows such free exchange of opposing positions. Happy belated 4th of July to you and yours.

 

[Eagle Claw]

I have a question, is the present method of extracting the gas the only way to do it or is it the most cost effective way for the drilling companies. I would think if it could be done at twice the cost they would opt for the current method at the expense of the environment.

 

[mbwmn]

I have a question, is the present method of extracting the gas the only way to do it or is it the most cost effective way for the drilling companies. I would think if it could be done at twice the cost they would opt for the current method at the expense of the environment.

I cannot speak to other methods of extraction, but I suspect little research has been done/ will be done regarding other (safer) methods unless it's found to be cheaper than existing methods.

I can say there is overwhelming evidence that the Energy Policy Act of 2005 is what made chasing gas in the Marcellus region financially viable. That is, if the drilling companies were not exempted from the Safe Drinking Water Act and the Federal Water Pollution Control Act they could not afford to pursue Marcellus gas for many years (until the price rises).

Does it seem strange that we would require a car wash or gas station to submit to Federal regulation, but drilling companies are exempt? What's wrong with this picture?

Disclaimer: This is my own personal opinion, and definitely does not reflect the opinion(s) of my superior(s), real or imagined.
2nd Disclaimer: All of my statements may be an attempt to demonize those property owners who will push for drilling at any cost because of the large monetary gains they might enjoy at the expense of the environment, OR they might just make a small amount of sense.

 

[Stonefly]

last week a house bill passed committee with all yea votes, that removes the exception for shale oil drilling from the clean water act, it now goes to the floor. The senate has a companion bill but it is still in committee.

 

[Joe D]

Check out pages 34 & 35 of this Columbia University study that explains in simple terms the tax benefits to the gas companies.

http://www.osiny.org/custom/HancockAndTheMarcellusShale.pdf

 

[GARYB]

Welcome to gasland east

 

[Ryan R]

...I think Future should sip the Cool Aid and prove the nut job professor is right and we are all wrong. Now is your chance Future, make asses out of us, be a man and take the Cool Aid.

Reminds me of the line from Erin Brockovitch that she says as the power company's lawyer is about to take a sip from a glass of water "By the way, we had that water brought in specially for you folks. Came from a well in Hinkley."

 

[Ryan R]

Oh the poor cows!

Let's delve into the claim that the cows MIGHT have slaked their thirsts with that toxic Frack water...

The contention that cows(like humans) enjoy the taste of salt, is fair enough.

Drinking water has a salinity of 100-1000 ppm
Sea water has a salinity of about 35,000 ppm (Have you ever swallowed any seawater? I suspect the cows would have the same reaction.)
Frack water has a salinity of 100,000- 200,000ppm

Cows will readily drink water up to about 2000ppm of salt. At 2500ppm they tend to stop drinking it.

What do you think the possibility is that the cows drank that spilled frack water that was up to 6 times as salty as sea water(evaporation might have made it even more salty)?

Me either.

Does anyone know of any evidence that given a choice cows WILL drink Frack water?

Let's not let a thing like evidence stand in the way of a good narrative, right?

I'm no genius but it seems obvious to me that the cows probably didn't just drink the extremely salty but otherwise "safe and harmless" frack water directly. Rather the " safe and harmless" frack water that leaked from the well-maintained, "safe and harmless" frack water storage pond or tank probably ran downhill, as "safe and harmless frack water" is want to do, into the nearest small creek. That small creek probably happened to be the same creek that ran thru the pasture where these cows probably often drank out of as they were "out standing in the field" as Ben & Jerry's likes to say. So it was probably diluted but all the same the Dept of Ag seems concerned enough to have quarantined the herd to protect the public.

Evidence? Well I can get a look at a good steak by sticking my head up the bull's ass but I'll take the butcher's word for it. Perhaps you would delve further than I? :thumb:

 

[hatchman]

This "accident" is the one that got noticed and publicized ,how many screw ups are there in the mass drilling frenzy that get covered up right away and no one knows about till it shows up way down the road.The contaminated dirt which is chemical laden sludge they call drill cuttings is trucked away in hundreds of leaking dump trucks and roll off boxes all day long ,basically any old (and new) dump trucks that the locals can get on the road to work for the gas companies.They truck it to landfills in PA and central NY dump it and drive out of the landfill with that black ooze dripping off the back of the trucks,onto the roads and eventually washed into the waterways by rain.If you think the DEP and EPA are on top of it your wrong,they are overwhelmed and undermanned to watch over the mass frenzy the gas companies are involved in. Some of the biggest drilling activity is taking part on PA state land leased to the gas companies.Like I said before the state's are broke and the gas companies have deep pockets.The politicians and state agency's will talk the concerned about the environmental protection measures to BS up the public but the gas companies will be drilling in NY state.One good thing is that when NY City planned massive lawsuits and a media blitz against the gas companies when they wanted to drill around the reservoirs that provide NYC with their drinking water the Gas companies quickly dropped their plans for that area because they did not want the massive negative exposure or well funded legal battle planned by NYC.