Cannonsville Problems, Releases and Fishing!!!!

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Guys,

Here is the DEP update site for Cannonsville Reservoir "Unusual condition"

Cannonsville

The construction firm drilled three bore holes to test and sample sediments, etc. at the proposed site for the hydroelectric facility. This is at the release chamber of the dam. There is a picture.

When they removed the casing of the third hole the sides collapsed.

Since construction of the dam there has been an artesian well that has sent water up a 6 inch pipe about 200 yards downstream of the dam.

When the casing collapsed the amount of water in the artesian spring decreased.

Some silty water appeared near the release chamber and continues to run silty.

The theory is that the bore hole went into the artesian spring and re-routed the water through the bore hole and then through some gravel where it has picked up some silt.

FERC is in charge of the project.

Reservoir will be drawn down until a repair is completed.

Cold water will be gone in 30 days and reservoir will be empty in about 60 days.

The hope is that there will be a repair completed before that occurs.

Unintended consequences:

Fishing has been fantastic. All rivers fishing well with dries. Amazing how the bugs appeared when the water came.

Cannonsville Release of 1500 cfs
Cannonsville diversion to the city of 730 cfs

Since NYC is diverting Cannonsville water to the city, they are not taking water from Pepacton or Neversink. This keeping the levels of those reservoirs high for this time of year. So, this is keeping those reservoirs in an L1-b level of release. 500 and 150 respectively.

Repairs:

Repairs are to begin this week. A relief well will be driven to try to divert the "leaking" water to a controlled location.

Then, the leaky bore hole will be repaired. No decision yet on the method of the fix.

Time frame:

City is committed to continue the release of water schedule until the repairs have been completed. If Cannonsville is drained there will be just pass through flow. Whatever comes in, goes out. Empty reservoir sometime in late September of early October. This depends on inflows.

When the repairs are completed and approved, they will be able to return to normal operation. I personally think that the repairs will be completed before the reservoir is empty. Maybe more hoping and anything else.

At this point even with an empty reservoir in September the system will still be in L2 condition and those FFMP releases would be made on the other rivers.

Still a lot of things to work out as this process moves forward.

NYC DEP will keep the public informed via the website above.

In the meantime, come on up, get in a boat and enjoy some truly great fishing.

A word of caution!!! The water is COLD!!!!

jim

 

[Bigfishy]

Ty for the up2date information!!!That was much more informative than the dep release

 

[flyI4]

Jim,

looking beyond the repair in the optimistic hope that the issue will be fixed before the reservoir is drained- what is your opinion on the impact longer term and specifically the issue of replenishment? Cannonsville is going to be very low even under the best case scenario- so what if anything do u see DEP doing to mitigate those issues ? Any shot they redistribute water from other reservoirs to replenish the deficient in cannonsville to some extent? Kind of a shifty deal if we go into the fall with 20% capacity and then see low flow releases for the foreseeable future because of a drilling fuck up. And if we are under 25% , its not like that type of deficiency can get replenished over the course of a fall and winter. Thats the type of deficient that could take a long time to bounce back from- potentially several years. Frustrating and tough decisions to come I think.

 

[golden beetle]

I dont read any of jim serio's posts.

Because i sleep just fine.

Dont need ambien, sominex, benadryl or Jim Serio to put me to sleep.

We need someone to write summaries of the great, but boring, Serio.

Volunteers?

 

[TR]

I dont read any of jim serio's posts.

------

And that might be construed as a good thing.

FWIW, NYC DEP / Paul Rush will hold a meeting regarding this topic at the Upper Delaware Council office on Bridge Street tomorrow, Monday, July 20 2015 at 6:00pm in Narrowsburg, New York.

Open to officials, press and the public.

In addition the following received re: explanation about Cannonsville / NYC DEP mishap.


Hi All,


First, I'm sending this to some who may not yet be aware of the recent leak discovered in the Cannonsville dam and the actions being taken to date.


Within the past week it was discovered there is a "small" amount of turbid water leaking from the reservoir into the West Branch.


This morning I attended a meeting in Hancock conducted by NYC DEP to explain the problem in detail and the actions being taken to correct the problem.
The good news and the bad news.


The only good news I found by attending the meeting was that I was extremely impressed by the speed and thoroughness that DEP is exhibiting regarding all aspects of this problem.
The meeting opened with DEP Deputy Commissioner Paul Rush giving a 30 minute slide presentation describing the problem and the actions being taken, and the rational behind those actions. An excellent presentation followed by over an hour of questions and answers.
Here's a brief rundown of what I learned, some new to me and some old.


First, this leak was not naturally caused. Recently NYC received FERC approval to install a small hydro electric facility at the base of the dam. The City then contracted for initial work to begin. The contractor performing this work drilled a test bore hole at the base of the dam. Then rather than leaving the bore hole casing in the hole or filling the bore when the case was removed, they simply pulled the casing and then the sides of the bore collapsed somehow causing water from the reservoir to enter the hole and escape downstream into the West Branch. I may be a little confused as to the exact details of what's involved here but basically the leak would not have occurred had preventative measures been taken. During the question and answer session it was inferred that the contractor (or their insurance company) may be liable for this negligence. Upon learning of the problem DEP went into action on several fronts. I was very impressed when Paul revealed just within the past day or so DEP consulted individually with four different major companies in the US with expert knowledge as to how this problem may be quickly resolved. I'll get to that shortly.


At the same time the City decided "out of an over abundance of caution" to immediately start drawing dawn the reservoir at the maximum rate possible. The valves in the WB outlet were fully opened and the maximum outflow of 1500cfs has been taking place 24/7 since last Wed. midnight. Also, they are diverting through the tunnel the maximum amount of water possible to the Roundout reservoir to be used by NYC, which is 475MGD (million gallons per day). From my experience the normal outflow to the City for drinking water going to the Roundout is about 300MGD. To compensate for this increase they are withdrawing less water from the Pepacton and Neversink reservoirs. To keep the levels down in these reservoirs more water will be released into the East Branch and the Neversink river as long as this maximum flow continues out of the Cannonsville. Now the biggest question in everyone's mind concerning the reservoir and WB fisheries is how much and how quickly will this drawdown affect those fisheries.

Well, the City without hesitation said safety of those living below the reservoir is the ultimate concern, and actually there is no other concern being addressed.

They stated this release rate and diversion rate will continue unabated until the leakage problem is resolved. Their best estimate (I believe at this point their "best guess") is not later than September 30.

They displayed a slide showing the rate the reservoir would be completely pumped dry, that is the only water coming into and out of the reservoir would be what would be flowing into the reservoir from the upper West Branch, Trout Creek, and a few other small tributaries. The graph showed three lines, one when the reservoir would go dry with the maximum amount of rainfall they might anticipate, one with the least amount of rainfall, and the median between the two (the best estimate). Presently the reservoir is dropping 8" a day, but as each day goes by the volume of water in the reservoir decreases and the amount the reservoir drops increases inch by inch. The best estimate shows the reservoir running dry on Sept 30, with the maximum amount of rain a few days later, with the minimum amount a few days earlier.

I find it to be a little more than coincidental that the maximum time they estimate repairs may take ends on the same date, Sept. 30. Now, they have stated over and over, as soon as repairs are completed the outflows will be dramatically reduced and the reservoir level will begin to rise. Another significant date shown on this graph was when it is projected that the cold water reserve in the reservoir (that water at 62 degrees and lower) will be depleted. That will occur at the current rate of outflow on August 18.
Now back to the proposed repairs. The expert consultants agreed that the best approach to alleviating this problem would be to drill several small bore holes around the collapsed bore hole and then slowly withdraw the cases and while doing so inject an expandable substance that would push on the substrate to seal the leak. Sounds a little like the proposals for fixing the BP Gulf disaster doesn't it? Again, my hats off to the City for acting so quickly as they have already contracted with a major company from NJ (oops , that NJ scared me) and they will begin work this coming Tuesday. So, without further information to go on, the best scenario is that repairs will be completed in ???, maybe 2 weeks??? and major damaging affects will be averted. Worst case scenario, all the fish die and we become warm water fishermen.


A couple of other interesting things I learned. It was brought up that this could (is already) economically impacting several businesses in the area, is there any way for the City to compensate for these losses.

Paul said there is a procedure in place and affected parties can apply through the NYC Comptrollers Office for such compensation.


Next, a question was asked how often and who takes the water temperatures in the reservoir for DEP.

Paul stated that the water temperature is taken once a month by engineers from the Downsville Office.

However, he said within a few days DEP will be putting in place a buoy with a cable to take the temperature at different depths on a 24/7 basis. A question I have for Peter and Scott. If you have access to this instantaneous temperature data will there be any further need for me to collect this data twice a week. I don't mind continue doing it if it is still useful. Let me know.
Now my last "personal observation" of how I see this may continue. This immediate DEP response of "an over abundance of caution" obviously is to address the fears, real or imagined, of those living below the reservoir. It appeared to me the majority of those attending the meeting and the majority of questions came from "chicken littles" fearing that dam was going to burst at any time and what the hell was the City doing to save them. One lady even demanded sirens be placed up and down the river to warn people when the dam is collapsing. Now DEP is monitoring this leak by the minute, as to the amount of the flow, the type of sediment coming out and is the consistency of the sediment changing, along with several other measurements to tell if the leak is stabilized, increasing, or decreasing. To date there has been no change. It is my feeling (maybe my hope) that after a few weeks even if repairs are not completed, if there is no change in this very minor leak, and after the initial panic that the sky is falling subsides, that DEP and other concerned parties may agree there would be no safety concerns if the outflows were gradually tweaked down to the point of guaranteeing the cold water reserve would not be depleted, and repairs would continue for however long may be necessary.



Here is a DEP link that will provide you with the very latest information on the repairs being made:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/watershed_protection/cannonsville.shtml



Not much else one can do other than fish, and I'll be out on the res at 5AM tomorrow morning doing just that.

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Fly,

Some of the questions you posed have no answers yet.

A couple of things we do know:

The whole system is in a very wet condition and most reservoirs are full or above normal.

Cannonsville drainage area is large, 455 square miles or so and can refill relatively quickly. Given normal precipitation there is a fair expectation that Cannonsville could refill by next June.

In 2001-2 the reservoir was drained to 3% capacity in December, 2001, and nearly spilled in June of 2002.

Certainly other reservoirs will take up the slack for the cities needs.

Assuming the repairs are completed in September:

One question is how will they handle say October/November if the reservoir is low? Will NYC release as per FFMP/OST for Cannonsville, or try to reduce the releases that are called for?

Winter releases are set at 150 cfs. Will that still be the case?

Lots of questions, not many long term answers yet.

The repair could happen relatively quickly. If all goes well.

Jim

 

[golden beetle]

Hi Fly,

Some of the questions you posed have no answers yet.

A couple of things we do know:

The whole system is in a very wet condition and most reservoirs are full or above normal.

Cannonsville drainage area is large, 455 square miles or so and can refill relatively quickly. Given normal precipitation there is a fair expectation that Cannonsville could refill by next June.

In 2001-2 the reservoir was drained to 3% capacity in December, 2001, and nearly spilled in June of 2002.

Certainly other reservoirs will take up the slack for the cities needs.

Assuming the repairs are completed in September:

One question is how will they handle say October/November if the reservoir is low? Will NYC release as per FFMP/OST for Cannonsville, or try to reduce the releases that are called for?

Winter releases are set at 150 cfs. Will that still be the case?

Lots of questions, not many long term answers yet.

The repair could happen relatively quickly. If all goes well.

Jim

As always, dude, very helpful.

 

[brachycentrus]

Hi Fly,

Some of the questions you posed have no answers yet.

A couple of things we do know:

The whole system is in a very wet condition and most reservoirs are full or above normal.

Cannonsville drainage area is large, 455 square miles or so and can refill relatively quickly. Given normal precipitation there is a fair expectation that Cannonsville could refill by next June.

In 2001-2 the reservoir was drained to 3% capacity in December, 2001, and nearly spilled in June of 2002.

Certainly other reservoirs will take up the slack for the cities needs.

Assuming the repairs are completed in September:

One question is how will they handle say October/November if the reservoir is low? Will NYC release as per FFMP/OST for Cannonsville, or try to reduce the releases that are called for?

Winter releases are set at 150 cfs. Will that still be the case?

Lots of questions, not many long term answers yet.

The repair could happen relatively quickly. If all goes well.

Jim

Jim,
One question you may or may not know. What impact will this have on the spawning browns up in Stilesville. According to " Dont pay attention to anything in my report, McBride", there were spawning trout on redds up in that reach in the beginning of and mid September until I confronted him on why he was changing the closing date of the West Branch fishery to align the dates with Pennsylvania.In his report, he substantiated closing the WB on October 1 because there were spawning fish on redds between Hale Eddy and Stilesville. We do have experience with this as NYDEC has dropped the release from 1500 to 200 or so for several years in a row, however, the rest of the system had water and cool at that. Any thoughts ? Hell, What did that report cost us if it isnt worth the paper it was printed on. That jerk wasn't happy unless it turned into a warm water fishery
Jeff

 

[GARYB]

What happens to all the fish in the reservoir if it's drawn down to river level. All I know is all you floaters better
enjoy the next couple of weeks, after that it's over.

 

[brachycentrus]

What happens to all the fish in the reservoir if it's drawn down to river level. All I know is all you floaters better
enjoy the next couple of weeks, after that it's over.

Not just the floaters. If the drawdown goes as explained, the WB water temps will be frying what fish remain. Worse case scenario would be the pre spawn browns head back downstream and set up near a cold water trib if there is gravel. Hopefully, DEC or PAF&B would have the forsight to close off so many yards around the tribs as they do over in Horton. And while they were at it, dredge the damn silt from the reservoir, I know it's an impossible dream, but one that is much needed.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Jim,
One question you may or may not know. What impact will this have on the spawning browns up in Stilesville. According to " Dont pay attention to anything in my report, McBride", there were spawning trout on redds up in that reach in the beginning of and mid September until I confronted him on why he was changing the closing date of the West Branch fishery to align the dates with Pennsylvania.In his report, he substantiated closing the WB on October 1 because there were spawning fish on redds between Hale Eddy and Stilesville. We do have experience with this as NYDEC has dropped the release from 1500 to 200 or so for several years in a row, however, the rest of the system had water and cool at that. Any thoughts ? Hell, What did that report cost us if it isnt worth the paper it was printed on. That jerk wasn't happy unless it turned into a warm water fishery
Jeff

Jeff,

I thought about your question a lot today. I don't think anyone has an answer because there are still far too many unknowns. It literally could be anything from a total non-issue to a total loss of a year class of fish or worse. Just too many variables right now.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

And while they were at it, dredge the damn silt from the reservoir, I know it's an impossible dream, but one that is much needed.

If nothing else, they can get the amount of change since the last time Cannonsville was down to about 3% back in the early '00s as I recall. I'm certain someone in the NY City drinking water game figured out the rate of fill at that time. Now they have about another 12 or so years of time to take a second look to see. One thing we know is that all of the $ millions NYC has spent the last few decades on the WBD above Cannonsville has led to lessened sedimentation of the reservoir by reducing erosion into the river and its upstream tribs.

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Brachy,

Of course, nobody really knows what the status may be, but we can speculate.

Still hoping for an early fix to the problem.

Here is what I think:

Assuming worst case and the reservoir is drained on or about September 30th.

Having lived through the 2001/2002 drawdown of the reservoir, I do not think this will be nearly as bad.

2001 the release was 8 cfs. This was because NYC was holding back water and we were in a drought emergency.

2015 will be different. NYC will maintain pass through flows once the reservoir is drained. This should maintain at least 100 to 150 cfs flow at Stilesville.

Most of the spawning takes place in late October and early November. The telemetry studies showed that perhaps 50% of the browns spawned in the tribs and 50% in the big rivers. The fish generally wait for a push of water to get up the tribs to spawn. This will probably still happen.

There seems to be enough water in the system that even with Cannonsville drained, there will be enough total storage to keep us out of drought. Of course, if things go dry, an empty reservoir will make it more likely we could go into drought.

Based on average inflows, Cannonsville would refill in about 200 days.

The other big question is what will be the quality of the water? Could be a total muck coming from the dam.

Just some thoughts.

jim

 

[JOE.T]

Hi Brachy,

Of course, nobody really knows what the status may be, but we can speculate.

Still hoping for an early fix to the problem.

Here is what I think:

Assuming worst case and the reservoir is drained on or about September 30th.

Having lived through the 2001/2002 drawdown of the reservoir, I do not think this will be nearly as bad.

2001 the release was 8 cfs. This was because NYC was holding back water and we were in a drought emergency.

2015 will be different. NYC will maintain pass through flows once the reservoir is drained. This should maintain at least 100 to 150 cfs flow at Stilesville.

Most of the spawning takes place in late October and early November. The telemetry studies showed that perhaps 50% of the browns spawned in the tribs and 50% in the big rivers. The fish generally wait for a push of water to get up the tribs to spawn. This will probably still happen.

There seems to be enough water in the system that even with Cannonsville drained, there will be enough total storage to keep us out of drought. Of course, if things go dry, an empty reservoir will make it more likely we could go into drought.

Based on average inflows, Cannonsville would refill in about 200 days.

The other big question is what will be the quality of the water? Could be a total muck coming from the dam.

Just some thoughts.

jim

May sound crazy but releasing this much water in such a short period of time may take out a lot of the silt that some thought needed to be dredged.

I think once we get below 50% your going to have a mess coming down the river.Just last night a buddy of mine and I noticed what appeared to be a milky tinge to the water, not brown.(no kill)

Maybe in the end this could be a blessing in disguise.

Another thing a few of us have noticed since the Cannonsville spilled a few weeks ago is that it actually cleaned out some silt from one of our favorite pools up top,

 

[Kilgour Farms]

Paul Rush indicated that there is communications between the reservoir and the underground aquifer and one of the main reasons they are monitoring silt size. The dam is fine but I have concerns about the underground aquifer may undermine the integrity of the dam.

One of the main reasons for drawing the reservoir down is to relieve hydrostatic pressure above the reservoir. They said when the level in the reservoir went down 5' and there was a noticeable decrease in the pressure from the underground aquifer hence what they believe to be communication between the reservoir and aquifer.

They plan on drilling a relief pipe above the bore holes and grouting the aquifer closed below the relief pipe.

the NYCDEP said they knew the underground aquifer was there when they built the reservoir.

 

[tomfly]

Paul Rush indicated that there is communications between the reservoir and the underground aquifer and one of the main reasons they are monitoring silt size. The dam is fine but I have concerns about the underground aquifer may undermine the integrity of the dam.

One of the main reasons for drawing the reservoir down is to relieve hydrostatic pressure above the reservoir. They said when the level in the reservoir went down 5' and there was a noticeable decrease in the pressure from the underground aquifer hence what they believe to be communication between the reservoir and aquifer.

They plan on drilling a relief pipe above the bore holes and grouting the aquifer closed below the relief pipe.

the NYCDEP said they knew the underground aquifer was there when they built the reservoir.

You are in the drilling business maybe you can answer these questions

During the geological survey before the dam was constructed why wasn't the Aquifer addressed?


I am curious at what depth is the aquifer, and how thick is the non permeable rock above it?

The original site survey should have given the engineers the information that was required to know what the underlying geological structure was. It has only been 60 years, the underlying rock structure would not have changed in that short amount of time. So why did they need to drill test holes?

If the is no danger in the dam why are they drawing it down? If the test wholes are the problem , wouldn't pumping grout into the test holes correct the problem without drawing down the water level?

 

[eddavidson9]

Tom,

I'm taking a leap here, but I'm assuming you do not have a background in geology, hydrogeology, civil engineering or geotechnical engineering. With that in mind, I'll try to address some of your thoughts.

You are in the drilling business maybe you can answer these questions

During the geological survey before the dam was constructed why wasn't the Aquifer addressed?
Not clear what you are asking here. What needed to be addressed? Groundwater flows through multiple confined and/or unconfined zones under our feet every day. Standard engineering practices are pretty conservative. I don't have the background necessary to check all the inputs and design that went into the dam, but it has stood for 60 years so far (by your measure), I would assume they addressed what needed to be addressed.

I am curious at what depth is the aquifer, and how thick is the non permeable rock above it?
Not sure, but I don't believe this is in the rock. If there is a confining layer, it is likely clay or till.

The original site survey should have given the engineers the information that was required to know what the underlying geological structure was. It has only been 60 years, the underlying rock structure would not have changed in that short amount of time. So why did they need to drill test holes?
There are any number of reasons to drill. Engineering is a conservative field. The more info the better, assuming this was a test boring (do we know that for sure, or could it have been for another purpose?). Furthermore, it's evident that the hydrostatic forces have been amplified by the impoundment (as would be expected), which could have implications that would warrant further study by themselves. As you said, 60 years ago, a massive structure was built and loaded with incredible amounts of water. I'd say that changes the regime by default.

If the is no danger in the dam why are they drawing it down? If the test wholes are the problem , wouldn't pumping grout into the test holes correct the problem without drawing down the water level?
They are drilling relief wells to lower the pressure in the original boring. I must assume that this means they do not think grouting the existing boring is feasible under current conditions. Lowering the head behind the dam likewise will improve the situation for repair, and is a "better safe than sorry" measure on top of that.

have you reviewed the documentation available at Cannonsville ?

 

[Future Fanatic]

Has this one been posted yet? It has some interesting tidbits...

Crews working to fix problems at Cannonsville Reservoir | WBNG-TV: News, Sports and Weather Binghamton, New York | Local

Crews working to fix problems at Cannonsville Reservoir
By WBNG News
July 23, 2015

Updated Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM EDT

Village of Deposit, NY (WBNG Binghamton) More than a week after crews caused a problem at the Cannonsville Reservoir, turbid discharge continued to flow out on Thursday night.

New York City's Department of Environmental Protection said the issue started when testing crews drilled boring holes near the dam. Those holes were drilled in preparation for building a multi-million dollar 14 Megawatt hydroelectric plant at the site.

On Thursday night, the DEP met with residents at the State Theatre in the Village of Deposit. The department told residents it takes full responsibility for the mishap-- an acceptance of responsibility that earned a few positive reactions from some in attendance.

“The positive thing for the people who live in Deposit, and downriver, is the fact that they recognize they have a problem," Chuck Schroeder, of Hancock, said. "They are doing a really good job of addressing it and trying to fix it. And again, they are admitting they have a problem, which is kind of new for them. Stuff has happened on the river that that has been caused by the city—downstream of the reservoirs—and they don’t admit anything.”

The DEP said two corrective actions would be taken to stop the turbid discharge, which has already significantly decreased since Wednesday.

“This occurrence, where we have the turbid discharge, was a result of an action on the city property," Paul Rush, deputy commissioner of the NYC DEP said. "It was done by a contractor, but it’s the city’s responsibility. We have to step up, correct the situation, explain what’s going on and keep lines of communication open with the public.”

The first step will be to have construction crews drill upstream relief wells. For the short term, those wells will serve as temporary pump relief wells -- which will help control the flow of water until everything goes back to normal, the DEP said.

Once the relief wells are dug, small diameter cased core holes will be drilled to surround each of the existing bore holes that caused the original problem. A compaction grouting technique will be used to essentially encase the original bore holes and stop the discharge.

Despite prior reports, crews will begin working on repairs Friday, using equipment that will arrive that morning. A larger specialized rig that will help make repairs will arrive on Saturday, and speed up the mending process.

The DEP said the repairs could be completed as early as mid-August.

In the meantime, the dam is being emptied by diverting the maximum possible amount of drinking water out of the reservoir and into the water supply each day -- at a rate of 970 million gallons per day. Additionally, water is continuously being released into area rivers.

Total storage at the dam is being shrunk by roughly 1.2 billion gallons each day. As of Thursday, there was approximately 84 billion gallons of water in storage, according to the DEP.

A 1998-2003 dam analysis found that the Cannonsville dam meets or exceeds all New York State Department of Environmental Conservation safety guidelines.

According to the DEP, the reservoir is currently safe. But, the department said it was taking several steps to ensure it stayed that way. Those steps included 24/7 monitoring at the dam, specifically analyzing the turbidity. Daily engineering inspections are taking place, and DEP police patrols at the site have been stepped up. Officials said they were also reviewing historic material and having discussions with consultants-- in addition to stockpiling materials and equipment at the dam, in case of an emergency.

The Mayor of the Village of Deposit-- Robert Rynearson-- said he still urges all residents in the area to make their own emergency plans.

Even though the DEP said there was currently no emergency situation at the dam, the department said if there every were a significant dam failure when the reservoir were at full capacity, it would take a mere 25 minutes for water to inundate Deposit. In all, the department said, 82,000 people are in the impact zone if a serious crisis ever arose.

Another issue that was raised at the meeting was the environmental impact of the current turbid discharge problem. For example, cold water from the dam positively impacts local fisheries. But, as the DEP releases water to relieve stress on the dam, only about 47.5 billion gallons of cold water -- below 62 degrees fahrenheit -- remains. And, that water is decreasing every day.

At the present rate, the cold water pool will be depleted by August 17. Residents hope the repairs can be made before that time, so that the DEP might be able to restore the reservoir's water levels again.

 

[Kilgour Farms]

During the geological survey before the dam was constructed why wasn't the Aquifer addressed?

I asked Paul that question and he said it was known to be there and its common for dams to be built over underground aquifers.


I am curious at what depth is the aquifer, and how thick is the non permeable rock above it?

The aquifer is a mere 61' below the current reservoir.

The original site survey should have given the engineers the information that was required to know what the underlying geological structure was. It has only been 60 years, the underlying rock structure would not have changed in that short amount of time. So why did they need to drill test holes?

Incredible amounts of hydrostatic pressure were and are being exerted the aquifer.

If the is no danger in the dam why are they drawing it down? If the test wholes are the problem , wouldn't pumping grout into the test holes correct the problem without drawing down the water level?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Even high pressure grout repairs are limited by pressure constraints by the hydrostatic pressures from the reservoir.

The aquifer came out prior to the well bore tests a few hundred yards down past the dam. You can run into all sorts of problems cutting off an active existing aquifer.

 

[Ausable]

Where is Trout Unlimited, NYS DEC and of course the national media?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi All,

Good evening, everyone.

Things are a bit more optimistic at the Cannonsville Dam. This is the update from the NYCDEP spokesperson.

We have two brief updates on the work and monitoring downstream of Cannonsville Dam.

1) Work has progressed on the relief wells that will end the mobilization of sediment and the turbid discharge below the dam. Today we successfully began pumping the second relief well. This well ended up being more productive than the first one. It is pumping roughly 50 gallons per minute from the artesian aquifer; the first pumped roughly 5 gallons per minute. As a result, engineers on site observed a significant decrease in the flow rate and turbidity of the cloudy water that was leaving the rock embankment and entering the West Branch Delaware River. This is good news, and evidence that the relief wells are performing their intended function. A third relief well is expected to be pumping tomorrow. We expect the turbid flow could be ended very soon.

2) At approximately 5:30 p.m., DEP successfully changed the level at which it is drawing drinking water from Cannonsville Reservoir. Water going into the drinking water tunnel is now coming from the top, warmer level of the reservoir. This operational change will effectively extend the life of the cold water at the bottom of the reservoir, which is important for the fisheries downstream and in the reservoir itself.

I hope these updates continue to be helpful and informative. As usual, please feel free to reach out to me directly with any questions you might have.

Be well,
Adam Bosch

 

[Future Fanatic]

Not enough... Too much...
Who'd a thunk that drilling for a green energy source woulda caused such a mess for the region...

"We are done" -- Residents near Cannonsville fed up with DEP
By Caroline Goggin

Cannonsville Dam
[2:16]Jul. 31, 2015. 06:04 PM EDTWBNG CBS Binghamton, NY
02:16
July 31, 2015
Updated Jul 31, 2015 at 7:24 PM EDT
Hancock, NY (WBNG Binghamton) New York City’s Department of Environmental Protection began repairs on the Cannonsville Reservoir on Wednesday.
Action News spoke with Director of Public Affairs for the DEP, Adam Bosch, over the phone.
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"Everything is showing good news. Everything is going in the right direction,” Bosch said. “Things are going smoothly so far."
Despite reassurance from the DEP that all is well with the dam, some local business owners say they aren’t convinced.
Many are asking how the DEP could let the situation get to this point? Where was the supervision of the dam? How long will this take to fix?
Bosch told Action News he anticipates work will be complete within a few weeks time. Meanwhile, business owners and community members wait.
"Now, us below the dam, are reaping the consequences of your inability to do your job," owner of the fishing shop, West Branch Angler, Matt Batschelet said.
According to the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, the West Branch of the Delaware River is divided into two sections by the Cannonsville Reservoir. Downstream of the Cannonsville Reservoir, the West Branch is a tailwater fishery -- that’s where Batschelet’s business, West Branch Angler, is located.
Nestled in the woods in Hancock, he said this 24-year-old family business has meant everything to him.
His livelihood sits on the West Branch of the Delaware -- the area the DEP has been repairing after a turbid discharge was detected below the dam.
Batschelet told Action News there are 30 cabins at his resort on the Delaware River. But, right now, only eight to 10 are being used. He said his business fluctuates as the flow of water does.
"This business, the land it sits on, and everything we've worked for for the last 25 years means nothing if that river is not there and not managed properly," he told Action News.
Batschelet also said he is confused as to how the DEP can afford to drain water from the reservoir. He said for years, he has been told by DEP officials the reservoir must always remain at capacity -- as to not jeopardize New York City’s water supply. Now, the situation has changed.
Public affairs director Bosch told Action News the DEP is able to drain water because of the heavy amount of rain the area received in June. He said in May, the DEP was just days away from declaring a drought watch -- June’s rain changed that.
According to the DEP’s website, Cannonsville is located at the western edge of Delaware County -- southwest of the Village of Walton and about 120 miles northwest of New York City. It was formed in 1964 by damming the West Branch of the Delaware River, which continues south, and becomes part of the lower Delaware River -- the border between New York and Pennsylvania. The reservoir holds 95.7 billion gallons at full capacity.
Water in the Delaware River is directly affected by the reservoir, as is business in the surrounding community.
"If we don't have the river, we have no industry in this town anymore," Theresa Allen, owner of Hancock Liquor Store, said.
Over the years, Allen watched her business increase and decrease based on tourism -- tourism directly affected by the flow of cold water, which is managed by the DEP.
"This past spring I've seen it [business] decrease by, I'm going to be conservative, 20 percent in the months of April and May," Allen said.

 

[MACFLY]

As of this morning the releases are being ramped down. Powers that be are saying the turbid water discharge is under control. Releases will drop to 500cfs by Wednesday. Bore hole will be plugged sometime in the next 2 weeks. Diversion of drinking water was stopped today as well.

Upper Delaware River: Normal Operations Resume at Cannonsville Reservoir on the West Branch of the Delaware River

 

[NJFred]

Good news... See the announcement here Upper Delaware River: Normal Operations Resume at Cannonsville Reservoir on the West Branch of the Delaware River