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Bugs vs Flies
- Thread starter fcch
- Start date
I always prefer the fly name - just because I'm an old fart and like tradition - those Latin names seem a touch pretentious to me. Also the old fly names carry a lot of history. If it's olive with blue wings it's a blue wing olive and I like slate drake over Isonychia.
I also like the fishermen's names since they focus on size, color, and silhouette - which are more important from a practical fishing side. The entomologists are great and provide incredibly useful information and are also invaluable to monitoring stream health, but the main object is to catch fish, not identify insect species. In that vein, many effective traditional flies for a hatch don't look exactly like the bug to me (i.e Leadwing Coachman for Isonychia nymph and some of those traditional winged or soft hackle wets). They must look like the bug to the fish, so the fly name seems correct. Sometimes entomology can focus more on what we see and less on what the trout see - the fly names carry a history of what seems to work regardless if it seems an exact match to us.
I also like the fishermen's names since they focus on size, color, and silhouette - which are more important from a practical fishing side. The entomologists are great and provide incredibly useful information and are also invaluable to monitoring stream health, but the main object is to catch fish, not identify insect species. In that vein, many effective traditional flies for a hatch don't look exactly like the bug to me (i.e Leadwing Coachman for Isonychia nymph and some of those traditional winged or soft hackle wets). They must look like the bug to the fish, so the fly name seems correct. Sometimes entomology can focus more on what we see and less on what the trout see - the fly names carry a history of what seems to work regardless if it seems an exact match to us.
HydeLowRider
Member
It depends on the crowd I am addressing. If I know that they are hip to Latin and Entomology - then the Latin Species vocabulary will be rolled out.. Otherwise, like past conversations with my Dad -- just use the common name and roll on... 
dcabarle
Administrator
Depends on the bug really... Hendricksons are rarely discussed as subvaria, Isonychia's are just that, I never hear people referring to them as 'slate drakes', Trico's short for Tricorythodes. Caddis are caddis for the most part of it, I describe them as 'light brown wing with beige body' or whatever the case may be... 'apple caddis'...
The_Sib
Learning Latin
Buuugggggssssss
I find that even as I am beginning to acquire more scientific acumen on the subject, that I still tend more to refer to them in general discussion with the colloquial name, e.g. SULFURS - But when pressed for a more detailed description - to use the Latin: Ephemerella Rotunda v Dorothea, etc, etc.
Joe T had an influence on this.
By the way, why don't we hear from him anymore - Does Anyone know ????
I find that even as I am beginning to acquire more scientific acumen on the subject, that I still tend more to refer to them in general discussion with the colloquial name, e.g. SULFURS - But when pressed for a more detailed description - to use the Latin: Ephemerella Rotunda v Dorothea, etc, etc.
Joe T had an influence on this.
By the way, why don't we hear from him anymore - Does Anyone know ????
Big_Spinner
Trout Hunter
That "trout flies that don't work box" must be huge!!!!
Jim
Jim
fcch
Salmo salar addict
Jim,
LOL, ... Well, it used to be. Then I started cleaning out my stuff and ended up with VERY few flies.
I'm not very inventive in my tying and I'm also a terrible "creature of habit". As I don't match the hatch, my "new" flies are all variations on the old "go to" flies (worms, woolies, stimulators, Wulffs, Birds-Bombers-'n mice, and of course spiders).
These are the one's I'll tote along "just to try".
LOL, ... Well, it used to be. Then I started cleaning out my stuff and ended up with VERY few flies.
I'm not very inventive in my tying and I'm also a terrible "creature of habit". As I don't match the hatch, my "new" flies are all variations on the old "go to" flies (worms, woolies, stimulators, Wulffs, Birds-Bombers-'n mice, and of course spiders).
These are the one's I'll tote along "just to try".
Taxon
Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
Christopher-
Scientific names are useful for anyone wanting to precisely identify a particular species of insect. On the other hand, common names are useful when precise identification is not necessary. Also, common names tend to be more enduring, and are certainly easier to remember. However, here are several examples of problems one can encounter when attempting to use a common name to describe a particular mayfly:
The common name, Blue-winged Olive, is used in flyfishing literature to describe the following mayfly genera (and likely many more):
Attenella
Baetis
Dannella
Diphetor
Drunella
Ephemerella
Plauditus
Procloeon
And here are some of the common names used in flyfishing literature to describe a single species of mayfly, Ephemerella subvaria:
Beaverkill
Blue-winged Hendrickson
Borcher's
Borcher's Drake
Brown Hen Spinner
Dark Hendrickson
Hendrickson
Lady Beaverkill
Red Quill
Red Quill Spinner
So, what is my point here? It’s just to say that both common names and scientific names have their productive uses, even for communication among fly fishers.
Scientific names are useful for anyone wanting to precisely identify a particular species of insect. On the other hand, common names are useful when precise identification is not necessary. Also, common names tend to be more enduring, and are certainly easier to remember. However, here are several examples of problems one can encounter when attempting to use a common name to describe a particular mayfly:
The common name, Blue-winged Olive, is used in flyfishing literature to describe the following mayfly genera (and likely many more):
Attenella
Baetis
Dannella
Diphetor
Drunella
Ephemerella
Plauditus
Procloeon
And here are some of the common names used in flyfishing literature to describe a single species of mayfly, Ephemerella subvaria:
Beaverkill
Blue-winged Hendrickson
Borcher's
Borcher's Drake
Brown Hen Spinner
Dark Hendrickson
Hendrickson
Lady Beaverkill
Red Quill
Red Quill Spinner
So, what is my point here? It’s just to say that both common names and scientific names have their productive uses, even for communication among fly fishers.
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Pete
Trout Hunter
Entomology can be an interesting, useful subject for the fly fisher, but sometimes I think we make too much of it...
In another thread, two of us who were fishing the same river, identified an insect differently. I thought it was a Light Cahill, he thought it was a Sulfur. Assuming we were both looking at the same insect, a more learned entomologist could have settled it. But does it really matter?
We were both catching fish, and both had the satisfaction of having "matched the hatch", albeit with slightly different cream/yellow flys.
In another thread, two of us who were fishing the same river, identified an insect differently. I thought it was a Light Cahill, he thought it was a Sulfur. Assuming we were both looking at the same insect, a more learned entomologist could have settled it. But does it really matter?
We were both catching fish, and both had the satisfaction of having "matched the hatch", albeit with slightly different cream/yellow flys.
RickW
Learning Latin
I like Chris' approach, flies that float, flies that don't, etc.
Years ago, HG Tappley (Tap's Tips for those who are old enough to remember) wrote an article about the "Nearnuf" , a Catskill type quill-bodied fly that could be "near enough" to a number of mayfly hatches. I try to match size / color / profile in that order. I may not be as "sucessfull" as some more technicaly adept fisherman, but don't anyone try to tell me that I'm not having fun.
I'm a scientist Mon-Fri, when I fish I want to leave that stuff behind.
Years ago, HG Tappley (Tap's Tips for those who are old enough to remember) wrote an article about the "Nearnuf" , a Catskill type quill-bodied fly that could be "near enough" to a number of mayfly hatches. I try to match size / color / profile in that order. I may not be as "sucessfull" as some more technicaly adept fisherman, but don't anyone try to tell me that I'm not having fun.
I'm a scientist Mon-Fri, when I fish I want to leave that stuff behind.
dcabarle
Administrator
I think where the entomology part comes into play when knowing when each insect hatches and where... Then again, you can just tell your pal down stream when he asks, "Hey, whatchya usin", I'm using a size 16 BWO. We know that if we're in late May through the end of June, he is most likely using a Cornuta.
Take a look at the Grey Fox and the Summer Sulphur... I use the same patterns for both. They're identicle in every way as far as I can tell, and my eyes are still pretty good. The Grey fox previously 'Fuscom' is now 'Vicarium' because they figured it's the same insect as the March Brown. Have you seen these two insects next to each other? The March Brown is definetely the larger of the two. Hatches II says the opposite and I'm not going to argue with Al, but, I've raised both species in a controlled environment too and from my observations, this is what I've noticed. I'm no entomologist, but it doesn't take an entomologist to tell the two apart either (most of the time). So, why not move Stenonema Ithica into Vicarium too? Anyhow, If you're with your pal and he ask what your using, just tell him the size and common name.
Take a look at the Grey Fox and the Summer Sulphur... I use the same patterns for both. They're identicle in every way as far as I can tell, and my eyes are still pretty good. The Grey fox previously 'Fuscom' is now 'Vicarium' because they figured it's the same insect as the March Brown. Have you seen these two insects next to each other? The March Brown is definetely the larger of the two. Hatches II says the opposite and I'm not going to argue with Al, but, I've raised both species in a controlled environment too and from my observations, this is what I've noticed. I'm no entomologist, but it doesn't take an entomologist to tell the two apart either (most of the time). So, why not move Stenonema Ithica into Vicarium too? Anyhow, If you're with your pal and he ask what your using, just tell him the size and common name.
