Big Flatbrook Fly Fishing Club

[Ryan R]

As soon as I read the 1st post I was waiting for the closet elitism to show. Voila here it is. These ideas are noble but they always seem to have the same end game, exclusion of those deemed not worthy. I'm all for special regs and better management but not if it is exclusionary. If you want exclusivity take up GOLF.

And before anyone in the peanut gallery gets to commenting, I've picked up a spinning rod about 5 times in the last 20 years and most of those have been sunny excursions with the kids.

I think goons is not so much in reference to what type of rod you use to pursue trout but rather whether or not the angler cares about a quality year-round fishery or just a fill my stringer each and every time for 4-6 weeks and then trout fishing is over type mentality. You know, "the trout are like doritos, keep all you want they'll make more" crowd. At least that's what a goon is to me.

I have to disagree too that flyfishing only areas are exclusionary. Absolutely no license angler is excluded from picking up a flyrod to and engage in flyfishing on these stretches. Just like on a TCA, I am free to leave the bait behind and use a spinner, spoon, crankbait, jig, or fly to
fish for trout.

 

[Ryan R]

If you guys want to start a stocking club I'd say to do it and keep that the primary goal: building that fishery THEN you could branch out into other projects as membership grows and the primary goal becomes accomplished. This is how the Lehigh River Stocking Association began and first rebuilt the Lehigh River's trout fishery, now they have branched out into water quality & temperature monitoring as well as many other avenues of coldwater advocacy for the river. My strongest advice, is to start with your original goal, accomplish it THEN set other goals.

BTW, the Lehigh River Stocking Association does not own, lease or post any land along the river. They charge dues and hold raffles and fundraisers simply to raise money to stock trout. They encourage membership thru on-stream distribution of applications and advocate (but do not mandate) anglers to release all or most of their trout to maintain the quality of the fishery. They do not have a clubhouse (that's a ridiculous cost to incur which would only take money away from putting fish in the river) but hold a monthly meeting at like a VFW or American Legion for a small monthly fee. A club doesn't have to lease or own land to accomplish the goal of improving a stocked fishery. I would be interested in belonging to a BFB Stocking Association or Club and paying annual dues to raise money for a stocking program.

I'd say to check out the LRSA's website at www.lrsa.org for an idea on how they operate now, their dues structure, and how they got started. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[mbwmn]

We dont need a dress code. Just look for the individuals wearing white wife beaters, an un-trimmed beard, camo hat with the license pinned to the rear of it, with the occasional one pack'n a lip with the tin in their right rear pocket, and a can of mealies in their left. As they walk you will here "clank clank clank" from there stringer. Almost all wear rubber hip boots or wet wade in cut off jeans and straw flip flops.

hey,
i gave up the metal stringer for nylon years ago when it got too rusty. get off it...

 

[Trouser Trout]

Can I be the President?

 

[mbwmn]

Can I be the President?

i believe the club/thread starters have someone slated for that position.

queen may be available-

 

[Trouser Trout]

I prefer Czar or Tzar, whichever everyone is more comfortable with. As for the title of Queen, just because i am developing man boobs does not qualify me for the position or the title.

 

[NJpatbee]

The current NJTU YRTCA proposal for the Flatbrook consists of the following:
- The Blewett Tract would be a Fly-Fishing Only YRTCA
- The adjacent 1 mile stretch from 3 Bridges to the Roy Bridge would be managed as an "artificials only" YRTCA, same as the KLG, Pt. Mountain, Toms River, etc.

What this accomplishes is a 1.5 mile contiguous stretch of YRTCA on the Flatbrook on some of the best water in that river. The water's ability to support trout on a 12 month basis is not in question, and there are some wild trout in this stretch, but not an abundance.

I would suggest strongly working with NJF&W regarding a supplemental stocking program. There are some native brown trout on this 1.5 miles, and the most recent electro-fishing survery on the Blewett (@75 meters from 3 Bridges North) came up with both a 16 iinch and an 18 inch wild brown trout. There are also wild brook trout in the tribs and in portions of the main river. The idea of put & grow is a good idea but you may want to discuss with the biologists at F&W the idea of stocking rainbow trout which holdover well, but there is no record of rainbows ever reproducing in the Flatbrook. I don't think any of us can predict if the existing wild brown trout population would expand, but it makes sense to me to give the fishery a chance. The Flatbrook watershed has in my lifetime been managed under general kill regulations, and it would make sense to see what type of brown trout fishery could develop. If the population of wild browns remains the same after a period of time, then switch to put & grow browns if that is what is wanted. But if the population of native browns increases to even double what it currently is, I would leave them alone. Catching a 14 inch holdover rainbow from a put & grow program is nothing to sneeze at!

One last word of caution - the YRTCA on the Flatbrook is just a proposal at this point, and we have a lengthy process to follow yet. If it is approved by the NJ F&G Council, it would not go int effect until 2012.

Come to the next FSBNJTU meeting and express your ideas. Many in our Chapter have been working for the Flatbrook for decades and fish it often and would welcome hearing more.

 

[Stonefly]

Good morning ladies and gents,

My friend Shane and I have been toying with the idea of starting a fly fishing club on the BFB. As its only the beginning stages and no idea if it can actually work or not, we were hoping, with advice and recommendation from fellow fly fishermen and TU Chapter members, how would we go about starting a club on the Flatbrook?

We were thinking making dues somewhere in the 100 bucks a year range, to pay for 16''+ fish, hats, shirts, advertising and potentially some guest speakers/demonstrators much like LOREN who will be at Shannons on April 18th.

We are hoping with respect and dedication from fellow fly fishermen, we can develop into a well respected club in the years to come.

I realize if word gets out if we DO stock some NICE fish, it will be loaded with goons and hicks from top to bottom. I realize we can't controll this but maybe we can stock fish at a more remote location on the BFB, such as WAY down behind the Town garage building next to Shaffers bridge, or something along those lines. The goon patrol wont want to walk that far in their straw flip flops.

So, I hope some of you can chime in and let us know if this idea is a worth while one, or are we pissing into the wind?

Thanks guys!

The area your looking at is part of the Flatbrook-Roy Wildlife Management Area, and The Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, and hence under Green Acres can't be leased for a private club under state law or under Federal. There is a few stretches of water still in private hands, but very few.

As to a stocking club, you will need state permits, and can't stock anywhere there is trout production or trout maintenance, they state asked FSB/NJ Chapter to stop its brook trout egg stocking, and trout were reproducing at our stocking sites, that being said, good luck.

 

[sh4ne87]

not looking to lease land for the upteenth time.

the main objective is conservation, a passion for fly fishing and camaraderie. we are NOT try to lease land and exclude any of the fellow anglers of the flat brook.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

The area your looking at is part of the Flatbrook-Roy Wildlife Management Area, and The Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, and hence under Green Acres can't be leased for a private club under state law or under Federal. There is a few stretches of water still in private hands, but very few.

As to a stocking club, you will need state permits, and can't stock anywhere there is trout production or trout maintenance, they state asked FSB/NJ Chapter to stop its brook trout egg stocking, and trout were reproducing at our stocking sites, that being said, good luck.

Rick,

That's not true. The SBR is stocked and TP water. The Musky is stocked and is TM water. And on and on. You do need the $2 stocking permit and fish from a certified disease free hatchery, but that is all that is required. The state and all the clubs have been stocking over wild fish for as long as there have been trout hatcheries in this state and many, many others.


As for the clubhouse, it should have ice cold keg beer year round and some bunk beds with an oversized fireplace in a very rustic setting. An outhouse would be appropriate as would an outdoor fire ring, rod holders against the cabin and a mud room to dry waders and wading boots and to hang your vest. Add a dirt driveway and some targets set up out back behind the cabin. Not that I've given it any thought

 

[Simms]

Why wouldn't the section from 206 bridge down to Shaffers, or even past be deemed YRTCA as well? Some of my FAVORITE water there. The stretch below the 3 bridges (paticularly) the gun range has changed so much the last 3 seasons, most of it being knee deep except for the stretch DIRECTLY accross the street from the range.

You have more cover, structure, and better water below 206 bridge, compared to blewitt or 3 bridges area. I consider those sections "streamer" water, rather than nymphing water. This section also gets considerably WARMER vs. the 206-Shaffers section..

 

[Kronk]

As I have stated in the past why not make a new YR TCA on a piece of the river that is now under-utilized.Leave the current fly stretch as it is.
It is the ONLY one in the state.Change the first nine days and ban bait.
Change YR TCA regulations to No Kill,even it is started with No kill from Oct 1st to Opening Day.At least the quality trout that are stocked in the fall will be available all Winter and not yanked out the first several weeks and transported down the highway.
I fish the Fly zone regularly and all that I have talked to want it left as is.
Anyone that fishes this river knows many areas are under utilized.
One reason I was given was its to hard to get new regs passed and easier
to inflict TCA rules on an already established Fly Zone.This may be an easier solution but in my opinion not the best( No i'm not an expert).
I'am just a regular guy who got a fly rod from my parents for 6th grade graduation and been flyfishing ever since(50 years)Extra effort is most times worth the outcome.

 

[sh4ne87]

might be heading up to bfb to do a stream assessment this weekend or next. has anyone else done this with the watershed ambassdors program? its always nice finding out what creatures lurk under the rocks. i did this with them last fall on the paulinskill and its really a useful tool on discovering the health of a stream and finding out what their eating!

 

[dcabarle]

might be heading up to bfb to do a stream assessment this weekend or next. has anyone else done this with the watershed ambassdors program? its always nice finding out what creatures lurk under the rocks. i did this with them last fall on the paulinskill and its really a useful tool on discovering the health of a stream and finding out what their eating!

Take pictures of those creatures and post them when you're back, they help educate people.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

As I have stated in the past why not make a new YR TCA on a piece of the river that is now under-utilized.Leave the current fly stretch as it is.
It is the ONLY one in the state.Change the first nine days and ban bait.
Change YR TCA regulations to No Kill,even it is started with No kill from Oct 1st to Opening Day.At least the quality trout that are stocked in the fall will be available all Winter and not yanked out the first several weeks and transported down the highway.
I fish the Fly zone regularly and all that I have talked to want it left as is.
Anyone that fishes this river knows many areas are under utilized.
One reason I was given was its to hard to get new regs passed and easier
to inflict TCA rules on an already established Fly Zone.This may be an easier solution but in my opinion not the best( No i'm not an expert).
I'am just a regular guy who got a fly rod from my parents for 6th grade graduation and been flyfishing ever since(50 years)Extra effort is most times worth the outcome.

Kronk, by including the FF only stretch (BLewett Tract) in a TCA it would not only remain FF only, but would gain the additional benefit of eliminating the 9 day slaughter and reduced creel limits (1 per day over 15" currently) year round. TU took the pains to mail out a questionaire to all FSB/North Jersey members with a list of options including no TCA and the proposal we have outlined was voted on by our members and presented to the state council. It has also received support from state biologists.

As for the current year round TCA regs, TU is working on them as well and plans to make our proposal to the division and F&G Council as well as the Federation later this year. Please get involved and have a voice, we are open to any and all ideas as we have not yet begun the process. That will begin at our April state council meeting. You don't need to be in TU to be heard, but certainly a 4,000 member organization carries more weight than one or two individuals. Reaching out to TU leadership and voicing your opinion is another way to be involved as is attending state fisheries meetings and speaking up in the public comment period.

 

[Kronk]

A clarification of the FF only Rules.The Blewiitt stretch is FF all year no 9 day slaughter of the fish with bait. This applies to 1/2 mile above the three bridges although they can keep 6 fish during regular season.I do fish this section and have never seen anyone keep a fish there....Kronk

 

[Ryan R]

Why wouldn't the section from 206 bridge down to Shaffers, or even past be deemed YRTCA as well? Some of my FAVORITE water there. The stretch below the 3 bridges (paticularly) the gun range has changed so much the last 3 seasons, most of it being knee deep except for the stretch DIRECTLY accross the street from the range.

You have more cover, structure, and better water below 206 bridge, compared to blewitt or 3 bridges area. I consider those sections "streamer" water, rather than nymphing water. This section also gets considerably WARMER vs. the 206-Shaffers section..

I agree with you that the section between 206 and Shaffers is some great looking trout holding water. I think part of the reason was that they had to start somewhere and probbly also had a goal of including the blewitt tract under TCA creel regs to get it better protection. The good thing is that once you have the TCA established on the BFB, and it gains angler support, it could always be expanded upstream to include that water.

Personally, I would much prefer a Flyfishing Only stretch but with the TCA-style creel limits but I was told this wasn't feasible under the current regulations structure (not sure I actually believe that is true) so this is a good compromise to start with since to me the most important thing is getting better creel limit protection on he BFB in that stretch.

 

[BIGBOW]

As for the clubhouse, it should have ice cold keg beer year round and some bunk beds with an oversized fireplace in a very rustic setting. An outhouse would be appropriate as would an outdoor fire ring, rod holders against the cabin and a mud room to dry waders and wading boots and to hang your vest. Add a dirt driveway and some targets set up out back behind the cabin. Not that I've given it any thought

Here, here!! Where do we sign?

 

[tmakota]

see lot of GST members - hola!

I'd love to help out with improving BFB experience.
I'm sending you my info via PM so that we can keep in touch.

 

[Stonefly]

Rick,

That's not true. The SBR is stocked and TP water. The Musky is stocked and is TM water. And on and on. You do need the $2 stocking permit and fish from a certified disease free hatchery, but that is all that is required. The state and all the clubs have been stocking over wild fish for as long as there have been trout hatcheries in this state and many, many others.


As for the clubhouse, it should have ice cold keg beer year round and some bunk beds with an oversized fireplace in a very rustic setting. An outhouse would be appropriate as would an outdoor fire ring, rod holders against the cabin and a mud room to dry waders and wading boots and to hang your vest. Add a dirt driveway and some targets set up out back behind the cabin. Not that I've given it any thought

When we went for a permit when I was Chapter President, Pat Hamilton asked us not to put the boxes in the river, as she was getting reproduction in the area, so it is true.

 

[Ryan R]

When we went for a permit when I was Chapter President, Pat Hamilton asked us not to put the boxes in the river, as she was getting reproduction in the area, so it is true.

Rick, these guys are simply talking about stocking trout into the current flyfishing only stretch, the very same stretch the state stocks. It would not be a difficult thing to obtain a permit to do.

It would be absolutely assinine for the state to deny a group a permit to stock trout from a certified hatchery for the reason "there is trout reproduction there" and then the state goes forward with stocking thousands of trout in the same stretch.

I'm guessing that with your brook trout egg boxes that Pat asked you not to continue so as not for those little guys to intermingle (and get counted with in any surveys) and possibly spawn with the wild brook trout already present.

 

[Kronk]

As I have stated in the past why not make a new YR TCA on a piece of the river that is now under-utilized.Leave the current fly stretch as it is.
It is the ONLY one in the state.Change the first nine days and ban bait.
Change YR TCA regulations to No Kill,even it is started with No kill from Oct 1st to Opening Day.At least the quality trout that are stocked in the fall will be available all Winter and not yanked out the first several weeks and transported down the highway.
I fish the Fly zone regularly and all that I have talked to want it left as is.
Anyone that fishes this river knows many areas are under utilized.
One reason I was given was its to hard to get new regs passed and easier
to inflict TCA rules on an already established Fly Zone.This may be an easier solution but in my opinion not the best( No i'm not an expert).
I'am just a regular guy who got a fly rod from my parents for 6th grade graduation and been flyfishing ever since(50 years)Extra effort is most times worth the outcome.

No comments on my opinion...Kronk

 

[Rusty Spinner]

No comments on my opinion...Kronk

The one thing I liked about your comments were a no-kill period to protect the fishing during the months where fish populations would be lowest (fall until Opening Day).

 

[NJpatbee]

No comments on my opinion...Kronk

Kronk - Some of us have been trying to get something other than general kill regulations on a portion of the Flatbrook for almost 4 decades. I could tell you some real war stories trying to get no-kill, limited kill, or FFO without the 9 day slaughter. Attitudes have changed over the last 20 years, and there is a more open attitude concerning managing for the fishery where possible.

The YRTCA is the current program supported by F&W, and has certainly proved successful with the exception of the Paulinskill where the water flow was drastically changed. We also have to face the fact that many (not all) recent studies show that the difference in the mortality rate of trout caught with spinning lure and flies where C&R is practices is insignificant (I do not agree with this entirely because of barbed treble hooks). Therefore, F&W views "artificials only" as a conservation tool as opposed to just FFO, which was the opinion years ago.

You are correct that changing the regulations on an already "special reg" area is somewhat easier than adding a new special reg area. However, that is not the main reason for proposing that the 1.5 mile stretch of the FFO be managed as a YRTCA - it also has some of the best water quality in the State. Recent temperature samples during the mid-Summer show the Blewett Tract to be colder than North at Schaefer's Bridge thanks to the Little Flatbrook. There is also another trib that enters the Flatbrook between 3 Bridges and Roy Bridge that adds cold water. Someone noted that some of this stretch has become shallow in spots, but that is not a long-term obstacle for the likes of Rusty Spinner and friends. Fact is, the water is cold, well oygenated, and has great insect life.

Remember, the TU proposal would retain the Blewtt Tract as FFO and the adjacent 1 mile would be artifcials only, the same as the KLG, Beaverkill, Neversink, Yellow Breeches, Willowemoc, and other streams and rivers that are fly fishing havens.

 

[blue dun]

Good morning ladies and gents,

My friend Shane and I have been toying with the idea of starting a fly fishing club on the BFB. As its only the beginning stages and no idea if it can actually work or not, we were hoping, with advice and reccomendation from fellow fly fishermen and TU Chapter members, how would we go about starting a club on the Flatbrook?

We were thinking making dues somewhere in the 100 bucks a year range, to pay for 16''+ fish, hats, shirts, advertising and potentially some guest speakers/demonstrators much like LOREN who will be at Shannons on April 18th.

We are hoping with respect and dedication from fellow fly fishermen, we can develop into a well respected club in the years to come.

I realize if word gets out if we DO stock some NICE fish, it will be loaded with goons and hicks from top to bottom. I realize we can't controll this but maybe we can stock fish at a more remote location on the BFB, such as WAY down behind the Town garage building next to Shaffers bridge, or something along those lines. The goon patrol wont want to walk that far in their straw flip flops.

So, I hope some of you can chime in and let us know if this idea is a worth while one, or are we pissing into the wind?

Thanks guys!

In principle I like the idea. However $100 dues seem a little pricey. In addition to that stocking a stream open to the public where anyone can legally keep fish is like throwing money in the water.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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Also with regard to throwing money in the water: It used to be in the latter part of May and June lots of stocked fish were visible in the BFB flyfishing area because most fly fishermen practice catch & release. The last few years that hasn't been the case. In that period of time I have often seen otters there. In 50 years of hunting and fishing I have never seen an otter until the last few years. I believe the otter population has exploded and they are feasting on stocked trout. The DFW needs to allow trappers to take more than one otter a year to remedy the situation. Until they do anyone stocking trout, including the DFW, is "throwing money in the water

 

[Kronk]

Last year while fishing a pool on the Flat 3 otters harassed me while I was fishing. This was half hour before first light. They kept sticking their heads out of the water cackling or grunting what ever they do.I did have a handgun with me. If they got any more agressive They would have been floating away.My initial encounter with them was way too close.They Obviously did not want me there.I wish I could shoot them next time.:down:

 

[sh4ne87]

Last year while fishing a pool on the Flat 3 otters harassed me while I was fishing. This was half hour before first light. They kept sticking their heads out of the water cackling or grunting what ever they do.I did have a handgun with me. If they got any more agressive They would have been floating away.My initial encounter with them was way too close.They Obviously did not want me there.I wish I could shoot them next time.:down:

while fishing yesterday at the KLG i saw a beaver running along the banks, i tried snapping a shot of it, but is it possible there are otters there too? i heard beavers make water taste great so i drank 2 bottles of river water. mmm beaver fever.

 

[Trouser Trout]

I never had otter, but beaver can be quite tasty......

 

[PRomano]

I never had otter, but beaver can be quite tasty......

Thats too funny!

Speaking of beavers.
YouTube- Primus - Wynona's Big Brown Beaver

 

[NJpatbee]

So why not get 15-20 fly fishers together and buy an existing house/cabin in the area with a nice fireplace, load the bedrooms with bunk beds, put the minimum down-payment and share the monthly expenses, and help improve and fish the Flatbook and the other streams in the area?

Maybe a pipe dream, but my wife is making a lot of noise about moving to Central or Southern NJ, but the NW Corner of the State has been in my blood since I was a young teen and it would be great to have a lodge/clubhouse to return to.