Big Bass Flies....

[sqerl]

One of these days I will update this thread with a pic of a sunfish pattern fly I tied.. A fly that was created in the hopes of catching a huge largemouth..

As it was, I set out Sunday (6/4) to use three different fly rods in an attempt to catch just such a largemouth.. I used a "small" 5wt rod with standard dry flies to catch bait... but the sunfish hitting the surface were too big to use as bait.... then I used a 7wt with floating line to work a deer hair mouse pattern that was nibbled on by some sunfish... then I used another 7wt with sinking line to sling the sunfish pattern tied "hi-tied" style... or at least i think thats the style.... anyway, the sunfish pattern worked better than expected but it didnt catch any fish...

Here's what I learned using the 2 big bass flies:

I learned that it is very difficult to sling a heavy fly no matter what weight fly rod you're using... any tips on chucking heavy flies???
on the bright side, the fly swam verticle and didn't tip sideways during the retreive...
Tips on fly fishing with large "bunker" type flies appreciated...

I also learned that a deer hair mouse will take on some water and not stay on top as I had hoped and instead would run just under the surface on retreive... Just how much hair should you stack when making deer hair flies? Should you use less hair per clump and make more clumps or use lots of big clumps with deer hair flies? I would like to make a fly with the hair as tightly bundled (densely tied) together as possible... Tips?


and now the rest of the story....

....after I packed it in for the day, my boys were tossing rubber worms and a giant rapala because they tired of the sunfish... My 5yo was pulling bass after bass using the rubber worm and of course, as luck would have it, my 4 yo (the one chucking the 6" rapala on his batman fishing pole) would call out - "dad, i got a fish!" that would lead to the most exciting time i have experienced.. probably ever...

For the next 5-10 minutes, all i wanted to do was grab the pole and reel in the fish my son was fighting... even when he complained that his hands hurt, i just loosened the drag so that he didnt have to hold the pole so hard... after what seemed forever, he finally got this fish close to shore but it was tangled in the weeds. At this point I allowed myself to touch the rod to pull the fish through the 7ft tall cattails. I didn't want to touch the pole any earlier because the parent in me wanted to give him the confidence that he could do it by himself - maybe thats a lesson he'll only realize later on in life. Anyway, as the fish came through the cattails, it was covered in grass and still impossible to see just how big this fish was... one last vicious headshake would uncover the largest bass I have ever seen with my own eyes that wasnt in an aquarium or stuffed... how big? 24" and nearly 6lbs...

My 4 year old son caught what I wanted to catch on the fly and outdid any bass I ever caught in my life... Picture attached to this message...

Since we were doing catch and release, I will have another try at hooking this beast on the fly later this year... and my son has a story that will last a lifetime...

 

[Fly Ty R]

Nice fat fish there!!! Yeah, I'd say 5 or 6lbs. Good job to your son!!

As for casting large flies, did you load your sunny fly with a bunch of lead or something? If so, that may be why you are having difficulty casting it. It would be like casting a 1oz sinker on the end of your 7wt; not a very fluid motion! Since you have a sinking line (according to your post), there is no need to load the fly with weight. The line will take the fly down for you, and a weightless fly typically swims much better than a weighted fly. Unless you have a tiny bit of weight in the nose or tail to make it dip around like an injured fish, then that is fine.

Your best bet for throwing large flies like that is to use a line wt or two heavier than you think you'll need. On your 7wt, an 8 or even 9wt line will throw the larger fly much more easily because you need less line on the air to load the rod. Also, don't expect to throw large air-resistant flies 100 miles. A good lob of 50 ft or so is all you should really expect to get.

Also, a fly that swims vertically on the retrieve but suspends horizontally on the pause is perfectly fine. The Slab Fly is one example of a fly designed to do that. It looks much more like an injured fish that way.

 

[DJ]

This post is exactly why I switched from a mod-fast 6 wt to a sw 6 wt for skinny water bassin/bream fishing and an 8wt for general bassing !!!!! You'll have much more success with big nasty/saltwater flies in all but the skinniest and clearest water (where smaller sparse flies work best). Hey, I am not the best fly fisherman but using my med-fast 8wt (St. Croix Avid) and even my 8 wt mod action (pro graphite) I can easily and accurately lay out even the nastiest of flies (water logged dahlberg divers and rabbit strips) over 40 feet. The mod-fast rod makes chucking them in the wind easy. However, I find the clouser line and striper lines much easier to throw than the standard bass taper.. Especially if you need any distance. If you can't double haul, learn/practice. It makes things much easier. Alot of people laugh at me for saying use an 8 wt but I try to match my line/rod to the flies I'm throwing not the fish I want to catch. A mod or mod-faast 8wt is comparable to med action conventional rod...... and that is considered all around FW tackle right? After a day of throwing large poppers, water logged rabbit strips, dahlberg divers and 1/0 SW clousers, I felt fine with the 8 wt but exhausted with my 6wt!! Another help, I use 7-9 foot 1X or 0 leaders with 1x-0x tippets or 9-10 foot 1x-0x saltwater leaders even on the SW 6 wt. to get large bream and smaller bass out of the salad and structure. Alot of people say its over kill but I'm very effective at getting large bream and they do put up a fight even on a SW 6wt. On the delaware river and some local rivers (millstone, canal) you'll run into very large robins and pickerel that will even put a bend in an 8 wt (especially if they get into the current)!!!! Also, I don't beleive in over taxing a bream in 90 degree weather with a 5 minute fight on a 2 or 3 wt, or a bass on a 4/5 weight then returning them to somewhat oxygen depleted 75+ degree water. That is not good! Might as well put that fish in a creel bag.:applaudit

 

[sqerl]

Nice fat fish there!!! Yeah, I'd say 5 or 6lbs. Good job to your son!!

quite the thrill... definitely more for me than for him!

As for casting large flies, did you load your sunny fly with a bunch of lead or something?

Nope! but the instructions I kinda followed for tying it used epoxy on the head to get the eyes on... so the only weight is the epoxy... in fact, the entire head is epoxy... i'll get a pic and the link to the recipe I found that inspired it to show you...

Your best bet for throwing large flies like that is to use a line wt or two heavier than you think you'll need.

That might explain it... i think it was a 7wt rod with 5wt line... thus the line was nowhere near heavy enough to carry the fly... Thus, taper forward 8/9wt line would be the best, no?

A good lob of 50 ft or so....

Whew! glad I'm not going crazy... i could get a good 30 feet or so and it was definitely a lob... and needed a lot of effort... hopefully a heavier line willl smooth things out...

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Pete]

DJ
I'm not one of the people who laugh because an 8 wt is "too heavy". My favorite bass bugging rod is a 9 weight.

 

[Fly Ty R]

Yeah, you can't tight-loop those big air-resistant bass flies like #22 midges!! It takes a different casting stroke altogether. Don't expect to break distance records!! Lobbing is a standard practice. 30 ft is fine if that is all you can muster, as long as you can reach the fish...

Ok, so the fly had practically no weight, but it sounds like the line you're using is too light. Yeah, on a 7wt rod, go with an 8 or even 9wt WF line. A bass bug taper or striper taper (which was already recommended) will be good. A nice fat thick short wind-cutting taper in the front of the line will help propel those big parachute-like flies. Also a short heavy leader of 5ft will turn over the fly much better than a longer lighter leader. Remember, LMB's are not really line shy, so you can get away with pretty heavy leaders.

 

[sqerl]

picture update!

Edit: I have added 2 pics to this post. i wanted to edit the main post but it didn't let me...
The first is the sunfish pattern I tied on a Mustad C71S SS Circle Streamer 2/0 hook.
Although I can go smaller in hook size or go larger with the fly size, this is what I had when tying big streamers for Pike.
This links for inspiration are here:
ASWF.org

FlyTek Fly Fishing FlyTek Tutorials

New England Saltwater Fly Rodders
Reel-Time Fly Patterns

there's one more link I can't find but it showed the head epoxied as in the photo.

The other photo is a deer hair mouse pattern tied on the same hook as above.

One of these days I hope to actually catch something on these.

also, although it might be overkill, i am using 25lb test as a leader because thats what i had when originally going after pike... perhaps i'll drop down to 15 or 10 when i know it'll just be bass.....

 

[Fly Ty R]

Those hi-tied bunker-style patterns should be fairly easy to cast, since they have little weight and actually very few materials on the hook. Actually, a little bit of added weight in the nose makes them turn over easier, and it makes the fly dip and jig in the water.

Your sunny fly looks like it should work. I would add a bit more umph to it though. It looks a bit sparse. Sparseness is good for clear baits, like spearing or minnows, but sunnies are a broad opaque fish. A thicker fly would present more profile in the water. You can add more bulk without adding weight by hi-tying a bunch of ties close together on the hook. The ASWF site should explain that.

Your mouse pattern should be killer!! One thing to note is how stiff those deer hairs are near the hook point. If they are too stiff you will miss a whole lot of strikes. It is good to have some hair over the point as a weed guard, but not so much as to make it tough to hook anything. Throw it on the bank and slowly pull it off into the water, then strip it in short quick pulses, walking the dog style, to make it look like it's swimming frantically. If you've ever seen a real mouse swim, they bob back and forth, side to side, doing a doggy paddle, with their head out of the water. I've gotten quite a few big bass doing that with those plastic worm type bass bugs on the spinning rod, especially where there is overhanging debris. The key is having a weedless lure or fly.

25lb test may be overkill, unless you're in some serious cover. 8-12lb test is typically what I use for LMBs. Stiff leader material is better for turning the big flies over, though. You can get away with stiff 20lb test if that's what it takes to turn the bug over.