Rusty Spinner
Active member
Here's the Division's recommendation for spring stocking:
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2014/trout_changes14.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2014/trout_changes14.pdf
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2014 NJ trout stocking changes due to disease at Pequest
- Thread starter Rusty Spinner
- Start date
Pete
Trout Hunter
I was just reading that....
Should I be concerned that the Ramapo (non trout), is NOT on the list of waters "Directly connected to Trout Production Streams", and could get stocked with "trout treated for furunculosis", who may be potential carriers.
Although the Ramapo is technically NT, it has several TP tributaries, including a WTS, and another found to contain heritage strain brook trout.
A potential secondary concern:
The other relevant document
http://www.nj.gov/dep/workgroups/docs/troutmgtnotice20140221.pdf
Indicates that the disease has been recorded in Smallmouth Bass (the Ramapo's other game fish), and Pike (the Ramapo flows into the "pike stocked" Pompton).
If the disease reaches the Pompton, it's a short trip upstream to the Lower Wanaque, and the Pequannock.
Should I be concerned that the Ramapo (non trout), is NOT on the list of waters "Directly connected to Trout Production Streams", and could get stocked with "trout treated for furunculosis", who may be potential carriers.
Although the Ramapo is technically NT, it has several TP tributaries, including a WTS, and another found to contain heritage strain brook trout.
A potential secondary concern:
The other relevant document
http://www.nj.gov/dep/workgroups/docs/troutmgtnotice20140221.pdf
Indicates that the disease has been recorded in Smallmouth Bass (the Ramapo's other game fish), and Pike (the Ramapo flows into the "pike stocked" Pompton).
If the disease reaches the Pompton, it's a short trip upstream to the Lower Wanaque, and the Pequannock.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Maybe we should be concerned. The Musky is also not on this list, yet it has over 23 document TP tribs that flow into it, and most are brook trout and not browns. The Flat Brook is also conspicuously missing as TP water. There are others. Good protections for the wild brooks, browns and rainbows in the SBR and for the wild browns in the Pequannock and the entire Lopat's wild brookies and browns. But other rivers not so much.
Pete
Trout Hunter
You can register your concerns here:
NJDEP Division of Fish & Wildlife - 2014 Spring Trout Comment Form
Another possible scenario:
They're going to stock the rejects into places like the Passaic between the Great Falls and the Dundee Dam.
Sounds harmless enough....Right ?
Fish that wash over the Dundee Dam, could find their way into the Saddle River, and eventually find their way upstream to the WTS section.
If you go far enough upstream or downstream, everything's connected.
NJDEP Division of Fish & Wildlife - 2014 Spring Trout Comment Form
Another possible scenario:
They're going to stock the rejects into places like the Passaic between the Great Falls and the Dundee Dam.
Sounds harmless enough....Right ?
Fish that wash over the Dundee Dam, could find their way into the Saddle River, and eventually find their way upstream to the WTS section.
If you go far enough upstream or downstream, everything's connected.
emoussa
New member
It seems like they have it right in theory but, like you guys mentioned, there are some critical rivers that look like they are still going to get stocked for some reason.
They should not stock any diseased fish anywhere. To make up for the hit to license sales, just let the bucket brigade fish the raceways with infected fish. Everyone wins.
They should not stock any diseased fish anywhere. To make up for the hit to license sales, just let the bucket brigade fish the raceways with infected fish. Everyone wins.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
More rivers and streams they do plan to stock have lots of TP tribs flowing into them than don't.
Pete
Trout Hunter
They're not stocking diseased fish, but they are socking some potential carriers.
I think I know the reason... it's political...
Most of their revenue comes from license sales.
A lot of that comes from people who only fish during the stocking season.
Since I fish mostly the Ramapo, I've had opportunities to get acquainted with a few of them....
Most of the "opening day" spin & bait crowd, don't care if some four inch trout in an obscure trib get sick.
They want to fill their creels/stringers...and then go brag about "caught my limit".
If stocking gets cut back too drastically, there will be negative feedback.
Again, for your feedback:
NJDEP Division of Fish & Wildlife - 2014 Spring Trout Comment Form
emoussa
New member
That's a hell of a journey.
I do get your point though. Our rivers are almost all connected in one way or another.
Pete
Trout Hunter
Fish will do that....
When I was a kid, I once caught an eel under the bridge on Woodside Ave, in Franklin Lakes.
Eel fry hatch in the ocean.
If you know that brook, you'd say it was impossible. It had to have traveled over land on at least one occasion, and made it over some unjumpable dams. One dam even had a fence across it to keep a rich guys trout in his pond, and away from us commoners.
Rusty Spinner
Active member
Nice try, Mark, but you're not going to kick off some of the guys from your favorite NJ and PA WTS that easily
Rusty Spinner
Active member
They are trying to stay away from the main wild trout populations, but so many of our larger trout streams have at least one or more WTS that flow into these larger streams. And many, the Musky included, are scheduled to be stocked. That's what has to be carefully weighed.
lightenup
A fan of Boobery
Rusty..there are two streams in particular that stocking should stop on...they ate not tribs of any large trout stream....they are not tribs......as there is a large blockage to the main river...I am sure you know the two I speak of...they both have wild browns and brookies..one may even have rainbows as well.....stocking should stop on both....
This is the big experiment. We are going to see what fishing is like in lots of places without stocking.
Last year PA had hatchery problems and I saw more PA plates than ever along Warren County streams. I expect to see a lot more NJ plates at the Bushkill, Brodhead, Martins Ck, etc.
Last year PA had hatchery problems and I saw more PA plates than ever along Warren County streams. I expect to see a lot more NJ plates at the Bushkill, Brodhead, Martins Ck, etc.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
I can tell you how I think this will play out. I love the SBR and I am concerned about this. In a twisted way stockies protect wild populations from the “If I catch it I will keep it" crowd. Stocked fish are inherently dumber the native fish. Without that buffer. I see wild populations suffering the onslaught of the I am going to keep my limit guys. If that entire stretch is not made a no kill. Wild populations are going to suffer major decline.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
I can certainly see the potential for that to happen although the strange thing is that while the SBR will not get fish the musky, pequest, and flatbrook among others will. I can certainly see guys driving over schoolys mt rather than fish the SBR. Also catching wild fish on the SBR is not going to be so easy for all the meat hunters. Still you could lose some wild fish for sure.
sneelhead
New member
While it will suck having to deal with increased crowds ie at the musky and pequest..I bet the wilds in klg will prosper between lack of comp for food and decreased foot traffic and no kill policy.. in a yea from now klg may be a hell of a wild fishery
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lightenup
A fan of Boobery
The Gorge will probably benefit the most from this...I hope many creeks do.....How could they not? The wild fish in the stocked creeks have had the added competition every year......now they don't....most meat fishermen I know won't walk past the closest bridge, so, many of the wild fish will not be killed...and if they(the fish) have chosen to live by a bridge where meat heads go, they would be dead already....
,
I am excited to see what happens.....If it sucks, so much better the challenge to catch fish...or just drive to PA like MAC said....
I do that anyway.....
gregschmegg
New member
Has the hatchery done anything yet to prevent birds from spreading the disease into the clean raceways? .. ex: Netted Raceways
Is this really forward thinking? someone tell me its not this simple to fix.... thanks.
Is this really forward thinking? someone tell me its not this simple to fix.... thanks.
Agust
Resident TU Rat Bastard
First netting will make it worse, the birds perch on the net and crap where they perch. They have numerous bird aversion systems in place, including cannons (noise not howitzer), streamers, electric fences and assorted contrivances. Nothing is foolproof, except enclosure.
Also please don't ignore the first item in the list. There are a number of fish (over 200,000) that were never exposed to the disease. These are not subject to the restrictions of the exposed and treated fish.
The biggest impact will be the shortened stocking season, all fish being stocked before May 1st will mean lots of fish early in the season, and no fish late in the typical stocking season. That may mean less pressure when the big hatches come in May, but it may also mean less fish to rise tot he bugs.
I encourage everyone to log on to the division web page and vote, and also plan to come to the March meeting and make you opinion known to the Division, DEp and the Fish and Game Council.
(Full disclosure I am on the F&G Council.)
Agust
Also please don't ignore the first item in the list. There are a number of fish (over 200,000) that were never exposed to the disease. These are not subject to the restrictions of the exposed and treated fish.
The biggest impact will be the shortened stocking season, all fish being stocked before May 1st will mean lots of fish early in the season, and no fish late in the typical stocking season. That may mean less pressure when the big hatches come in May, but it may also mean less fish to rise tot he bugs.
I encourage everyone to log on to the division web page and vote, and also plan to come to the March meeting and make you opinion known to the Division, DEp and the Fish and Game Council.
(Full disclosure I am on the F&G Council.)
Agust
sneelhead
New member
I overlooked the part saying all stocking is to take place before may1st..that sucks. Meat guys can and will clean everything out by the time stocking is over..especially in highly pressured areas like tcas which in my experience get POUNDED by worm dunkers during open regulation periods aka first month of the season. What a bummer..my favorite time to fish has always been may/June when meatheads fizzle out and the state starts dumping browns, etc into our streams.
Guess I'll have to get my PA license again.
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Guess I'll have to get my PA license again.
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gregschmegg
New member
Can you explain what a streamer is, never heard that one...
appreciate someone from the council explaining the bird crap issue with runway nets. And I agree that enclosing the raceways is an expensive but sure fix (we would hope).
So they decided to leave to raceways net free (to avoid potential perched bird shit) and instead used air canons and other devices to deter ?
Are decisions like this voted on or resolved inside the division?... thanks.
appreciate someone from the council explaining the bird crap issue with runway nets. And I agree that enclosing the raceways is an expensive but sure fix (we would hope).
So they decided to leave to raceways net free (to avoid potential perched bird shit) and instead used air canons and other devices to deter ?
Are decisions like this voted on or resolved inside the division?... thanks.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Agust if there were 200k fish not impacted are these the fish that will be stocked in the musky and Pequest. Also if these fish are clean why not stock them in the SBR. Question is more of a curiosity for me as I dont really fish in NJ.
The early stocking is another experiment. I don't think the meat guys catch as many as most people think. IMHO stockies mostly disappear for other reasons. My guess is that the bait guys will quit early and leave they fish that adapted quicker for the fly guys. We will see how this plays out as well. However, those end of year browns do provide good late season dry fly action. I think that will fall off.
Just as an aside, the famous trout streams of PA and NYS just get 2 or 3 stockings in the spring and the fishing stays all season. NJ is pretty rare in having 1 preseason and up to 6 in season stockings. Even the little Lopatcong got 5 stockings in the spring.
Just as an aside, the famous trout streams of PA and NYS just get 2 or 3 stockings in the spring and the fishing stays all season. NJ is pretty rare in having 1 preseason and up to 6 in season stockings. Even the little Lopatcong got 5 stockings in the spring.
NJAngler
Daily trifecta - brookies, browns and rainbows.
Nice try, Mark, but you're not going to kick off some of the guys from your favorite NJ and PA WTS that easily
ehhh..worth a shot ;-)
I still think that if its naturally occurring, wild fish should be ok. Also no virus or bacteria is 100% mortal or contagious. In worst case scenario, wild pops drop temporarily. Immune fish can repopulate a stream within two years. They are resilient creatures.
A bigger concern would be anglers harvesting wild trout. Wild trout would normally be thrown back but if they are the only option, I could see more wild browns being creeled at higher numbers(brookies & bows tend to be under the 9" minimum so they'll be alright). Thankfully most stocked TP waters have limited access so wild trout on private/posted sections will be off limits to the angling public and off the dinner menu.
I trout fished less in 2013 than any year since 1987(that's 26 years) due to poor conditions(low flows mostly). I found fishing for pike, smb, lmb, pickerel, perch and sunfish was more than enough to satisfy my fishing lust. Heck most of those fish fight better, grow bigger and are easier to get. If you limit yourself to a specific species, your def missing out on some great experiences.
Pete
Trout Hunter
Rusty Spinner
Active member
I think with the SBR, they just felt that stream has enough wild fish to allow it to take a year off the stocking list above Solitude. I'm also concerned about the wild fish being creeled, but catch and kill anglers won't be very interested in fishing a stream that hasn't been stocked since last fall like they will "normal" stocking areas in the Musky, Pequest, Paulins Kill, Flat Brook, etc.
Like I've been saying, it's a big :shit: sandwich and everyone that fishes for trout in NJ has to take a bite.
Like I've been saying, it's a big :shit: sandwich and everyone that fishes for trout in NJ has to take a bite.
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