what keeps fish where they are?

[mtthwnvk]

This may seem like a stupid question, but someone entertain me, please.

What keeps fish in certain stable places, when water, is by nature not prohibitive to movement. Im sure fish move but in my limited experience catching fish, it seems you can fish the same spots or the same stretches and see fish there but not in others. I've noticed it especially in two spot I fish regularly where the fish are not in what looks to be a great stretch, but move over the line of a wts section fishing the same fly and technique and bam there's trout, always. Its weird. I've often wondered this too when I hear about clubs stocking waters. Why on earth does a fish get thrown into a body of water and say, well this is where I was chucked in, guess I'm just gonna stay here, vs. end up outside of that club's water?

 

[Stevester]

There are lots of reasons that fish move or stay. Water flow, dissolved oxygen, depth, food availability, protection from predators, number of other fish in the area, etc. For your club example, clubs tend to stock on a regular basis and you can expect that not all of the previously stocked fish have been caught or moved. If you put additional fish into a spot that already has fish occupying the preferred lies they will likely move to find a better area to occupy. As water levels get low as they are now, fish will necessarily concentrate in areas with sufficient depth and flow for protection. Since this time of year you don't have the water temperature issue like you do in the summer you will likely find fish somewhat more spread out but remember, their first concern is protection then food.

Steve

 

[JeffK]

Clubs often feed fish, which helps them stay.

The number one priority for trout is security - to not get eaten.
The number two priority is food. This is secondary because how well fed you are is meaningless if you end up as someone else's lunch.

Prime lies have good protection and food; next best lies have protection and so-so food and beat ones with poor protection and good food.

Trout are hierarchal, which varies a shade from territorial. The biggest trout will take the best spot, but since that spot can change over the course of a season, with water level, or even a day it is not really protecting a territory but simply the best lie for the time. For example, the shallow tails of pools held tons of minnows, but offer no protection in bright sunlight, particularly from birds. So you never see good trout there in the day even though the food is there. But under the cover of darkness the larger browns move in for the bait. Trout can also move to shallows at night for a good hatch or spinner fall.

Of course, trout need sufficient oxygen and cool water and will seek optimal conditions. They may look for the cold spots in summer and the warm ones in the winter. The constant temperature of springs (or the Pequest hatchery outfall) can make these the same spots in summer or winter, but other spots can change. A sunny, dark bottomed spot may be warmer in both summer and winter (and good only in the winter) and a deep, shaded spot can be colder in both summer and winter and be better in the summer.

Trout behavior does vary by species. Not that long ago NYSD did radio studies of trout in the Beaverkill system. The browns were homebodies finding a good spot and staying there most of the year except for a two week period when they went to spawning areas. The rainbows were wanderers spending the summer in the West Branch tailwater, spreading out all over the Beaverkill with some all the way up into the Willowemoc in the fall and then slowly moving down in the late spring as the water warmed. PA telemetry studies have trout moving 100 miles. I fish the upper SBR a lot and the browns concentrate in a few holes in the winter and then spread out when the waters rise and warm in the spring. The Beaverkill browns showed similar movements. When browns are concentrated in their winter spots fishing can be pretty good.

But then again we don't know everything. There are places that look great to me that never seem to hold a fish and poor looking spots that are reliable. Not the way to bet, but trout don't always do what we think they will.

 

[mtthwnvk]

Thanks guys, makes sense, I guess they don't 'stay' as much as I assumed they do. I also don't know what it costs to stock fish, so maybe my assumption that it's a crapshoot for clubs to stock isn't really on point considering it may be cheaper than I assume


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[mudbug201]

What surprised me most about the telemetry study that JeffK mentioned is that given the chance, trout will stay in the same exact spot until a change in conditions forces them to move. At this point they'll cover 30 or 40 miles of river if necessary to find a new spot they like.

And then they'll move BACK to the initial spot when conditions improve. This blew my mind. It's really hard to understand what goes on in a trout's brain - it's the size of a pea, hardly a brain at all, and they don't actually have consciousness or memory, so our attempts to explain their behavior are always anthropomorphic, but they clearly have the ability, like anadromous fish or migratory birds or bees, to have a specific place imprinted on their senses, and to return to that place if possible.

 

[Stevester]

Mudbug, you overestimate how much brain it takes to perform complex behaviors. Animals that have smaller brains than trout can do some amazing things. Goldfish can be trained to recognize shapes and will hold the memory for some time. Trout can learn to avoid flies that they have been caught on or when they sense fisherman in their immediate area. Moving back and forth in river to preferred holding and feeding areas is not that much of an intellectual feat.

Steve

 

[mtthwnvk]

Trout can learn to avoid flies that they have been caught on

I remember reading too about a trout's memory (or maybe is sensory?) how dependent on the debris in a river they will know not to strike certain shapes and colors because they will have learned that its not a food source. It's all pretty cool

 

[lightenup]

I have been pondering this question since it was posted....

What keeps fish where they are?
I'd have to say, me fishing for them......

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Moving back and forth in river to preferred holding and feeding areas is not that much of an intellectual feat.

With the obvious exception of the golden beetle, of course

 

[Stevester]

Hmm, can't comment on that since I have never met GB. I try not to use peoples forum behavior determine my opinion of them but am not alway successful.

Steve