To Biot Or Not to Biot - That is the Question

[danme]

Hi All my fellow Tiers. I have a question and would ike your opinions on this if you would be so kind.

Last year I bought a GREAT BOOK By Henry Ramsey Called Matching Major Eastern Hatches. It is a very well laid out and informative book, easy to understand and this particular person is from NE Pensylvania. Needless to say much of his research was done on the NE Pennsy streams and rivers.

He has a very unique way (At least to me that is) of tying Most of his Dries particularly his Mayflies tied with Biot Bodies. I have tied quite a few of his patterns since buying the book and was just wondering if any one of the many tiers here use Biot Bodies on their Dry Flies and If you had noticed a difference in trout selectvity and or preference to the traditional fur bodied mayflies.

He ties Thorax Style Biot Bodies (as previously mentioned) With a Fur Thorax, using CDC and Either Wood Duck -- Cree -- Malard and other types of feathers mixed in for the wing. Hackle wrapped around the Fur thorax then cut off at the bottom of the fly. I must say they look AWESOME and they have produced for me especially when the trout refuse the traditional Fur Bodied May Flies. Another thing that really caught my attention was the segmentation of the bodies using the Biots as compared to the Fur Bodied flies segmented with either Quill of Tinsel ar whatever else cam be used.

Thought and Opinions are More than welcome

Peace

Dan

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I tie more and more dries using biots. I like the segmented look, although I think you give up something in durability. But I think the minor tradeoff is worth while.

 

[danme]

I tie more and more dries using biots. I like the segmented look, although I think you give up something in durability. But I think the minor tradeoff is worth while.

Thats what intrigued me so much about this book - The Segmentation is 2nd to none Very good point Rusty and it is well noted

thanks

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Thats what intrigued me so much about this book - The Segmentation is 2nd to none Very good point Rusty and it is well noted

thanks

It's not just segmentation as in the overlap you get, but also in the varied color that biot bodies give which is much closer to the natural mayfly or caddis, but especially mayflies. I love them for my rusty spinners as well as emergers and duns, although mostly I use them for duns and spinners. There is something about spiky dubbing I still like for emergers most of the time.

 

[danme]

It's not just segmentation as in the overlap you get, but also in the varied color that biot bodies give which is much closer to the natural mayfly or caddis, but especially mayflies. I love them for my rusty spinners as well as emergers and duns, although mostly I use them for duns and spinners. There is something about spiky dubbing I still like for emergers most of the time.

I agree 100% Rusty -- IMOVHO there is nothing better than fur with guard hairs sticking out on emergers and Nymphs, but those Biots on Dries are The Shit

peace
Dan

 

[flyI4]

Biot bodies are a great way to turn out some realistic patterns ,but I think they are best suited for smaller patterns. Small olives, sulphers, and blue quills are 3 hatches I especially like to go with the biot style body. They are great because they don't absorb water like dubbing does and allow for a fine profile which will help when fish get picky and start really sizing up your patterns during heavy hatches. On those bigger bugs like March Browns and Isos, I prefer a buggier dubbing body, but it cant hurt to have a couple biot style patterns in the box for any hatch. I've always done well with biot style patterns during Light Cahill hatches, but then again its not tough to fool a fish when its 10 minutes before dark.

 

[danme]

Biot bodies are a great way to turn out some realistic patterns ,but I think they are best suited for smaller patterns. Small olives, sulphers, and blue quills are 3 hatches I especially like to go with the biot style body. They are great because they don't absorb water like dubbing does and allow for a fine profile which will help when fish get picky and start really sizing up your patterns during heavy hatches. On those bigger bugs like March Browns and Isos, I prefer a buggier dubbing body, but it cant hurt to have a couple biot style patterns in the box for any hatch. I've always done well with biot style patterns during Light Cahill hatches, but then again its not tough to fool a fish when its 10 minutes before dark.

Very astute comment and I will take it!!!!! I have found that Turkey Biots are much bigger than the goose Biots for the bigger flies. That being said, You are limited to the size of the hook shank and the fly that you tie with Biots

Thanks for your input fly 14 Very Nice post

Peace
Dan

 

[Alan_B]

Biots are the bomb! I like them on Hendricksons, Adams and larger olives like Cornutas. I use strictly Goose and buy only Natures Spirit, there colors arre spot on and they are the longest I have seen. I think the goose has a more realistic segmentation.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Biots are great to use on nymphs also. I tie alot of my stonefly patterns with biot. The trick with the bigger flies is to be able to overlap 2 biots seamlessly if one is not long enough. If you coat your threadbase with tyers glue or Crazy glue before you wrap, your durability also goes way up. On the dry fly end, all of my rusty spinners are with biot, and they are some of my top producers. Use the glue there as well. Rest of my dries are split between biot and dubbing, depending on the effect I want. I like to tie them in with the notch up so that the ridge really emphasizes the segmentation.

 

[GARYB]

I like the biot body for blue quill, hendricksons, BWOs, and sulphurs. The segmentation is why it's great, especially on the old rusty spinner.
Dennis at Catskill Flies ties really nice ones.

 

[JeffK]

I really like biots for spinners - most of my rusty spinners now have a biot body. I'm a big Iso spinner fan too and my go--to Iso spinners use a biot body. It is a great way to get a nice slim spinner body. I'm on the fence about biots for other dry flies - but they sure look nice and they do catch fish. I use a lot of John Collins' biot sulphurs, but a big part of that is some days I just like to fish John's flies. I also fish plenty of sparkle duns and parachute duns with dubbed bodies with good luck.

For smaller nymphs I am moving away from biot bodies and going more to quill bodies since they seem to look in better proportion to me. However, when all is said and done I've had good luck with dubbed bodies, thread bodies, pheasant tail bodies, biot bodies, and quill bodies for size 16 and smaller nymphs. I've used them plain, laquered, and coated with UV cured epoxy. I'm not sure one works better than the others.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I very rarely will go with biots for dries. I prefer quill bodies but the vast majority of my larger dries are dubbed synthetic bodies. Smaller dries I just go with a thread body. When dubbing dry bodies it's best to use hardly any dubbing at all. The diameter of the thread should not change drastically. Using this much dubbing ensures that it will be tightly dubbed to the thread. This is very important for keeping water out from in between the dubbing fibers.
And by far I have caught more trout during heavy hatches with a dubbed body no-hackle. Spinner falls I have great success with double or triple wing spinners that have thread bodies.
But I will say, biots do make some good people catchers. Sure are buggy looking.

 

[Everybody's Friend]

I very rarely will go with biots for dries. I prefer quill bodies but the vast majority of my larger dries are dubbed synthetic bodies. Smaller dries I just go with a thread body. When dubbing dry bodies it's best to use hardly any dubbing at all. The diameter of the thread should not change drastically. Using this much dubbing ensures that it will be tightly dubbed to the thread. This is very important for keeping water out from in between the dubbing fibers.
And by far I have caught more trout during heavy hatches with a dubbed body no-hackle. Spinner falls I have great success with double or triple wing spinners that have thread bodies.
But I will say, biots do make some good people catchers. Sure are buggy looking.

Johnny, how much $$$ for a dozen marauders?

 

[Trouser Trout]

Welcome back JU!!

 

[Alan_B]

Johnny,
You are a pompous douchbag!

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I very rarely will go with biots for dries. I prefer quill bodies but the vast majority of my larger dries are dubbed synthetic bodies.

Quills do a similar service in that they give segmentation and some contrasting colors like the natural species of many mayflies. But I think biots give more contrast. I highly doubt trout care all that much. Any fly that gives me confidence is a better fly than one I have less confidence in, that I much I know for certain

 

[Johnny Utah]

Quills do a similar service in that they give segmentation and some contrasting colors like the natural species of many mayflies. But I think biots give more contrast. I highly doubt trout care all that much. Any fly that gives me confidence is a better fly than one I have less confidence in, that I much I know for certain

I agree about the similarities and the trout caring lol. However, How is it you become confident in a fly? Would you not become confident if you were to tie on a fly you never used before and it produced wonderfully? I think so. So you should fish those flies your less confident in.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I agree about the similarities and the trout caring lol. However, How is it you become confident in a fly? Would you not become confident if you were to tie on a fly you never used before and it produced wonderfully? I think so. So you should fish those flies your less confident in.

Confidence in a fly comes to me, at least, in more than one way. Initially I may like the look of the fly and nothing else. Or I may have received it from a friend that gave it high marks and insisted I try it and I wound up catching fish. Or it could be because I decided to experiment with flies less used (or never used) in my fly boxes because nothing else was working that particular day and I wound up catching fish on something new. I'm not a slave to only certain flies. I clearly have my go-to flies, but I often experiment as well. Too many anglers become slaves to too few flies, in my experiences.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Johnny, how much $$$ for a dozen marauders?

 

[Johnny Utah]

Confidence in a fly comes to me, at least, in more than one way. Initially I may like the look of the fly and nothing else. Or I may have received it from a friend that gave it high marks and insisted I try it and I wound up catching fish. Or it could be because I decided to experiment with flies less used (or never used) in my fly boxes because nothing else was working that particular day and I wound up catching fish on something new. I'm not a slave to only certain flies. I clearly have my go-to flies, but I often experiment as well. Too many anglers become slaves to too few flies, in my experiences.

agreed , but then again it's all about presentation right :rofl:

 

[flyI4]

Confidence in a fly comes to me, at least, in more than one way. Initially I may like the look of the fly and nothing else. Or I may have received it from a friend that gave it high marks and insisted I try it and I wound up catching fish. Or it could be because I decided to experiment with flies less used (or never used) in my fly boxes because nothing else was working that particular day and I wound up catching fish on something new. I'm not a slave to only certain flies. I clearly have my go-to flies, but I often experiment as well. Too many anglers become slaves to too few flies, in my experiences.

I totally agree that too many anglers are slaves to go to patterns and rely on general "adams" patterns or just throw on a elk hair caddis after a few match the hatch patterns fail them rather than think their way through a hatch and figure out whats actually going on out on the water.
The confidence thing is interesting now that I think about it. Now that I've been fishing a while, I have confidence in a fly once I see it based on experience and understanding of what certain hatches require in a pattern to be effective. Sulphers and small olives are especially like this as we've both spent enough frustrating days on the D to know what you need out there in the form of cripples, creative emerger patterns, spinners, ect. Having success with a pattern certainly adds to the confidence one has in the fly, but usually you know a fly is going to work well before you try it, or vise versa you don't buy a dozen flies in a shop you think are too bulky in the wings, too much hackle, body color is off ect.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

agreed , but then again it's all about presentation right :rofl:

You got me on that one, I've always said that flies don't matter, it's all about presentation

 

[NJpatbee]

I use Turkey and goose biots for some segmented bodies, but the best segmented bodies I have ever tied were created using porcupine guard hairs. The link below has a Fly Fisherman article on them, and I will post a brand name (hopefully still in business) once I get to my materials at home.

Slickwater Quill-Body Flies - Fly Fisherman

 

[Trout Nazi]

Aside from confidence, segmentation, etc. we know they are effective, and its so easy to tie a biot abdomen (easier than dubbing IMO), the question is why wouldn't you tie with biot?