Sweetgrass Bamboo

[sstasiak]

This weekend I saw an episode of Fly Fishing America on OLN that featured the Sweetgrass rod company. These are the guys that all left Winstons bamboo division.

It was a pretty informative show and let the guys show a little bit of what goes into making a bamboo rod. They mentioned Winston a few times, but never really gave an exact reason for leaving. On the show, and website, they did stress the fact that they take pride in having all the work done here in the US and nothing outsourced like other rod companies(possibly why they left Winston?)

They must be pretty good at what they do since they have a 2 year wait for any new orders. Anyone else catch the show?

 

[theartoflee]

Didnt see the special but know of the company that you speak of. They are Winstons bamboo divison.. talk about the captain NOT going down with the ship. I belive the entire bamboo divison left with Glen Bracket. Primary reasons for them leaving had to deal with Winston switching hands.

The new owners right off the bat set goals to increase ALL production, profit, and sales. The new owners also have a very hand off approach quite the opposite to the previous owners. The goals mentioned above and led to alot of confusion. These new goals did not sit well with many of the employees seing that the company is already turning a very nice profit. They see many of the goals that Winston has set under their new management to be unattainable if Winston wishes to maintain their current standards.

For all that were considering purchasing a Winston bamboo you might be bamboozled into thinking you are getting onething and receive another.

 

[jcstikfish]

Here is an old (early 06) podcast that interviews Glen Bracket. It's an interesting listen just about the bamboo, but he also alludes to the break from Winston as well.



Fly Fish Radio - The original podcast for flyfish anglers


~James

 

[theartoflee]

I am looking at the Winston website as we speak and notice some changes under the new management. Now they have a section called company films which they never had before. You can even take a tour of their cane department which will be a nice touch. It is listed as coming soon... guess they have yet to replace Glen and his crew. :rofl:

 

[Joe D]

theartoflee,

Here are a couple of articles from the Missoulian News you might find of interest:

End of an era

Craftsmen say they're leaving R.L. Winston Rod Co.


Joe

 

[theartoflee]

theartoflee,

Here are a couple of articles from the Missoulian News you might find of interest:

End of an era

Craftsmen say they're leaving R.L. Winston Rod Co.


Joe

Joe

I guess I might have mistaken Glen reasoning for leaving with Tom Morgans but in general I think both Glen and Tom had their issues with the new management. I dont think either were fond of the purposed outsourcing of Winstons jobs.

I used to be a huge Winston fan but due to recent dealings with their repair department I am off the Winston kick.

 

[sstasiak]

Quote from Woody Woodward(Winston CEO) in the first article:

“Bamboo is a very small percentage of Winston Rod,” he said. “The company is stronger than it's ever been. Our market share is much larger. That's customers saying they like what we're doing. That's what the market is telling us.”

I guess we'll see how that market share changes if the customer service reports from members here are any indication of what's to be expected from Winston down the road.

It's unfortunate that they seem to be following in the footsteps of most of corporate America....trying to make more money, faster. I guess that's the goal of all companies, but sometimes shouldn't be the most important one.

 

[acirig]

All,
For those of you interested in any more material on this topic the last release of "Fish & Fly" for Autumn 2006 has a great article "Changing of The Gaurd At R.L. Winston Rod Company" all about this. It is a lot more information on history of what happened inside the company and the split of the Boo Boys. The Fly Fish America was a nice follow up though.

 

[The_Sib]

Yeah, I saw it.
I was "most impressed" by how it looked like a throw it all together on a shoestring - and then charge the customer through the nose while making them wait two years. It's a real big time production.

Thanks, but I'll be sending my bamboo order to John Niemiera.

BTW, have YOU seen John's slide show presentation on how HE builds bamboo rods? I have, and I'm impressed with his exacting dedication to the
subtle nuances of his craft.

 

[sstasiak]

BTW, have YOU seen John's slide show presentation on how HE builds bamboo rods? I have, and I'm impressed with his exacting dedication to the subtle nuances of his craft.

I haven't seen it, but I don't have to much interrest in bamboo rods at this point probably because I won't be able to afford one for a while. I was more interrested in their history with Winston and why everything fell through between them.

I'm sure John builds a great rod though...I've heard a lot about him.

 

[dcabarle]

Yeah, I saw it.
I was "most impressed" by how it looked like a throw it all together on a shoestring - and then charge the customer through the nose while making them wait two years. It's a real big time production.

Thanks, but I'll be sending my bamboo order to John Niemiera.

BTW, have YOU seen John's slide show presentation on how HE builds bamboo rods? I have, and I'm impressed with his exacting dedication to the
subtle nuances of his craft.

I watched the show. I can't say that I was overly impressed but it was interesting and kept my attention.

Greg, with regards to John... It's a touchy name with me. I remember when a guy from NJTrout ordered a rod, he waited considerably long for it and even posted a message on NJTrout regarding the lack of service. John didn't respond to this person until he saw the message on NJTrout. John requires a heafty deposit for what he calls a custom rod. All bamboo rods are custom. Now if a name or additional items were/are included on the rod, that's another story and I can't blame him for wanting a deposit but from my understanding, that was not the case.

I've heard via word of mouth of a few shops who were not too happy with him either. I've also heard from at least 1 more bamboo rod user who was not happy with the service. I personally just don't like the way the rods cast but that's just a matter of opinion.

Anyhow, if you read about John on NJtrout, the latest talk is that he has taken the steps needed to become more reputable. I think that's a great thing but he still requires a hefty deposit, and that doesn't sit right with me.

Am I off base?

 

[The_Sib]

I concur about the FF TV show being interesting....

I actually know John N. moderately well.
I do know some of those people and some of the circumstances that you mentioned - AND I have discussed their issues with both the customers AND John. I have also heard from a couple of satisfied customers.

I personally do not have a problem with paying that deposit for something that I would really want. That being said, I have a standing invitation from John ( with absolutely NO PRESSURE ) to come to his shop and test cast any or all available rods that he has ( Including his own personal rods ) to see if I like a particular model, length, or taper enough to warrant an order.
I just have not had the time to do that lately. I may cast a few if he's there at the Somerset show.

Your comments are serious food for thought - and I take them under advisement.

Hey, I wouldn't order & buy one if I didn't like it enough.
That goes double for a relatively expensive, made-to-order bamboo rod.
I think that's good advice for anyone to follow.

As John explained to me, availability times vary - according to the quantity
of previously placed orders that are in various stages of completion and for various model rods that may have been made without an order and placed into inventory. Just like a FIFO queue. ONE thing that I got from talking to him is that he will not compromise his craft by taking shortcuts with procedures or materials. He said to me that after all, "his name goes on the rod".

I've seen his slide show presentation on how he goes about building a bamboo rod and I can say his methodology appears to be substantially more intense
with much greater attention to detail than I saw evidenced on the TV show about the new Sweetgrass Rod Co. I have to take a look but I'm wondering what is their requirement for placing an order - The stated TWO YEAR wait is also pretty extreme.

I'm sure that most of us have heard the saying "Good things can come to those who wait". This may be applicable here.

Dennis, I do remember that you had a lot of problems with a bamboo rod that you ordered from a different "custom" rodmaker. True ???

~ Greg

 

[dcabarle]

Dennis, I do remember that you had a lot of problems with a bamboo rod that you ordered from a different "custom" rodmaker. True ???

~ Greg

Thanks for the response, Greg.

Yes, I had some major issues with Tim Zietak, and posted about it on this site. Not only that, but recently received some emails from people who shared the same experience with Zietak. One guy emailed me back in November asking me if he could post his aweful experience but I asked him to hold off until I contacted Zietak to find out Zietak's side of the story. Tim (Zietak) gave me his side of the story which was pretty much the same BS story he gave me. The person emailed me the other day asking me if he heard back from Zietak yet, regarding his rod. Tim was supposed to replace a ferule and correct a few other minor items with the rod. It's almost February, and this guy still does not have his rod. I'd tell anyone who asked me, "Keep away from Zietak". From my experience and from what others have told me, Zietak provides an unacceptable product at premium cost. Everyone I spoke with has had to return rods to him for one reason or another. I have a feeling that the person who contacted me will be posting a pretty bad review very soon regarding his nightmare experience with Tim.

 

[FLI FISSURE]

All I have to say about John N. vs. Glenn B. is ask around at the Fly Fishing show in N.J. this weekend who is a better boo builder and I think everyones response including John's would be Glenn. As Fish and Fly is quoted "Glenn is to Bamboo what Lefty is to casting". Have fun.

 

[The_Sib]

I am quite old enough to form my own opinion, thank you.

I really don't give a $h1+ what "every body else" MIGHT say.
( especially that RAG, Fish & Fly - which is ONLY a compilation of fishing vacation reviews and photos at exotic ports-of-call provided by the extremely wealthy ). However, I am very thankful to be living in the USA, where we all enjoy freedom of expression, choices and opportunities that many of our globe's co-inhabitants do not.

Contrasting the rod building techniques that I saw on the TV show about Sweetgrass versus what I have actually seen in real life ( built by John ) and a lenghty slide show presentation on how John builds a rod, I get a sense that, overall, the NJ built rod is as good a tool - as well as having ( probably ) a more timely delivery with pricing that reflects a better value.

That's MY opinion.
You and "everyone else" are just as deserving of your own opinion(s).

I am NOT denigrating Sweetgrass IN ANY WAY.
IF you want to spend and wait, far be it for me to "rain on your parade".

From the Sweetgrass site:
Why We Are Different

There are so many wonderful rod makers around the country these days. Sweetgrass Rods does not presume that anything the company builds will be better than what can be found within this gathering of great craftsmen. What makes Sweetgrass Rods different is the eighty years of collective experience that the team brings to each and every rod built. And since fly fishing is a way of life in the Twin Bridges area, in many ways, this influence permeates everything we do.

It is our intention to do our share to preserve the traditions of a unique American craft. In an age where time is money and more cheaply produced outsourced goods rule the corporate world, we believe there is still a place for quality craftsmanship done the old fashioned way. What we build will have a heart, soul, and spirit connected to our sense of history, community, and obligation to the resource that makes what we do possible.

Sweetgrass cost between $2000 - 2500, WITH A $300 DEPOSIT

Delivery times are currently 8 months to 1 year.

 

[DoubleHaul]

I saw the show. These guys, especially John, are heavy Zen type artists. I wonder if their product is as "deep & utilitarian" as their view on the universe? I got the feeling that the new owners of Winston had a major rub with the "we don't care about $ we care about cane karma" attitude that the Sweetgrass Rod Co. projects. An old cowboy once told me "pretty is as pretty does & the rest is all Bulls***". I like bamboo but wood is wood. I fish both carbon & bamboo, each has it's place. I would never pay their price, I would rather buy a vintage bamboo rod. My 2 cents!

 

[Scott]

Having cast several different rods made from several different materials over the years (e.g. fiberglass, bamboo, graphite, aluminum, etc.) I find that modern graphite rods suit my casting style and performance requirements best.

Maybe this is one of those "If we have to explain you wouldn't understand" things. I just don't have that kind of disposable income to spend on something that is going to get hard use.

Just like the shotguns I take bird hunting are ones I don't mind dropping on the ground when I have to.

But I have to agree with Doublehaul, if I were to buy a bamboo rod it would be a vintage one, not a new one.