Leader selection question

[scotth]

Hello all... I've read in L.L. Bean Ultimate Guide to Fly Fishing about matching the leader to the hook size. Is this how most people select their leader? I know there is probably more to it than that but for a beginner is this the best way to do it? Thanks for any info




Regards,


Scott

 

[Mike Ridolfino]

I build my own leaders, but I normally stick to about a 7.5' leader with a 4x tip section and I add lighter tippet to the end, or if I'm fishing heavy nymphs or streamers I cut the leader back and throw on 2x tippet. I don't worry too much about matching the leader to the size of the fly. I hardly ever go smaller than a size 16 fly, and usually just stick with 4x tippet no matter the size of the fly. I fish mostly small wild trout streams where the fish aren't spooked by a heavy tippet, so this works fine for me.

 

[stumpy]

Matching your leader to the fly is usually pretty good rule of thumb, and adjusting that leader to the requirements of the fish (or the river) is done by adding enough tippet in the size demanded by the fish is the refinement. For trout, I usually start with a 7-9' leader in a 4-6x, then add 2-4' of 1#-3# tippet. these sizes get stepped up for bass, when I'm throwing big poppers andfat, heavy flies. In the salt, I may use a 12' leader tapering to 15#, and a shock tippet of 20-30#. Basically, you need a leader that will turn over your fly, without spooking the fish.

 

[rckrego]

I think that with fluorocarbon you can get away with using a much thicker tippet than you used to with mono. that being said, if your tippet gets too thick then you lose some (or all) of the movement in the fly that makes it appealing to a trout. I usually do some trial by error, but am normally in the 4x to 6x fluoro range. Then again I rarely fish anything larger than a size 12 and often am into 20-26. Oh by the way, I almost exclusively nymph fish or wet fly fish, and only occassionally throw a streamer or dry.

I think for dry fly there is still a debate over mono vs. fluro with some people preferrign the floating ability of mono while others just grease the fluoro. For dries I construct a tapered leader of mono with a fluoro tippet. For wet fly leader I construct almost the same thing but with fluoro droppers.

As for streamers, the appropriate leader construction is best taken from Kelly galloup. He uses a foot of 20 lb with 18 inches of 12 lb to a 0x-2x tippet section, if I remember correctly, somewhere around 3 ft. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If you want a killer nymph fishing leader construction, PM ajfromnj or check out his site troutpredator.com. He introduced me to long line tandem nymphing. It gets killer results. Much more entertaining than highsticking too!

Please don't take me as an expert! If you saw some of my knots you would laugh. But I give it my best.

Oh I'd also love to hear people's opinions about what is the right diameter tippet for certian fly sizes. And what people think about weighted vs. unweighted flies for producing natural movement.

 

[Pete]

..........Oh I'd also love to hear people's opinions about what is the right diameter tippet for certian fly sizes. And what people think about weighted vs. unweighted flies for producing natural movement.

I generally use "The rule of four". Hook size divided by four equals approximate tippet "X" size:

• #12 = 3X
  #14 = 3X or 4X
  #16 = 4X
  #18 = 4X or 5X
  #20 = 5X

I've seen recommendations by others who use a very similar formula that yields lighter tippets. "The rule of three":

• #12 = 4X
  #14 = 4X or 5X
  #16 = 5X
  #18 = 6X
  #20 = 6X or 7X
  etc.

It might be wise to consider conditions before deciding which way to go. Normal conditions "rule of four". Fussy low clear water conditions "rule of three".

If you release your fish, also consider that a heavier leader will allow you to land and release the fish more quickly, and increase the chances of survival. If conditions allow, any tippet that fits comfortably in the eye of a standard hook should be light enough for a dedicated C&R fisher.

 

[BIGBOW]

Most brands of leaders give you the hook size to leader size ratio on the back, which is what usually should be followed. If I know what size hooks I'll be using first, I'll start with the leader that matches their size. If I change hook sizes, I'll cut the leader and tie on tippet that matches the hook size. If you're lazy like I sometimes am, it's easier starting off without the tippet for a while until you switch hook sizes. It's always good to keep a few diff sized leaders with you.

 

[NJDrew]

I generally use "The rule of four". Hook size divided by four equals approximate tippet "X" size:

• #12 = 3X
  #14 = 3X or 4X
  #16 = 4X
  #18 = 4X or 5X
  #20 = 5X

I've seen recommendations by others who use a very similar formula that yields lighter tippets. "The rule of three":

• #12 = 4X
  #14 = 4X or 5X
  #16 = 5X
  #18 = 6X
  #20 = 6X or 7X
  etc.

It might be wise to consider conditions before deciding which way to go. Normal conditions "rule of four". Fussy low clear water conditions "rule of three".

If you release your fish, also consider that a heavier leader will allow you to land and release the fish more quickly, and increase the chances of survival. If conditions allow, any tippet that fits comfortably in the eye of a standard hook should be light enough for a dedicated C&R fisher.

That's interesting. I pretty much only throw size 16-20 and I only use 7x. It's kind of my all purpose leader. I see you point about using a heavier leader to land and release faster. Maybe its the time I spend reviving them or maybe its just stupid luck, but I haven't lost a trout yet. Although I must admit, a couple where close calls. I will have to try some 5x and 6x in the future.

 

[Trout Nazi]

It all depends....

It depends really I think on where you are and the conditions. If you're fishing small dry flys on clear low water, you have to go light (6-7x). If you're fishing larger dries or high water or wets, you can afford to go heavier. I try to go as heavy as conditions allow. I think that the diameter thing is more important when dry fly fishing generally. Sub surface, you can go a little heavier. I Read an article once where a guy was scuba diving while his buddy nymphed, just to see things from the fishes perspective. Said that 3x and 6x looked the same, and the fish did not care (they were experimenting with tippet diameter).

Having said that, this time of year though, I mainly fish gin-clear mountain streams in Vermont, so I need to go 6x when fishing drys. Fish the same streams down after I've gone up dry flying, and I switch to 4x for wets and do fine with that.

 

[dcabarle]

7x - 6x? Wow, they still make that stuff? You guys must be fishing for sunnies!

For a beginners skill level, I would use the standard leader/tippet setup described above. This will help you turn your fly over better. Be carefull where you're fishing though. If you're fishing a river that holds wild fish, you might want to bump up a little. Wild trout won't be so willing to swim into your net like a stocked trout.

Once you become a little more experienced, you can start fooling around with your tippets. I personally use a 12 - 16 foot leader/tippet setup. 5x and 4x are pretty standard for tippets no matter what fly I have on.

 

[stumpy]

If I recall correctly, the record for landing a fish on 4x tippet used to be a 225# striped marlin, though, at that strength, a lot of the credit for fighting the fish has to go to the boat captain.

 

[rckrego]

Drew- I don't think you can really say whether you have a zero mortality rate. Its my understanding that most fish that succumb after being caught die some time after their release. Particularly with those fish that are over handled. the fungus takes time to set in. With the physical exhaustion theres a good cahnce they make it if they swim away, but even then they might have neough strength to get away from you, but die later.

 

[dcabarle]

I hardly even take pictures of my fish anymore. They'de have to be something to write home about. I'll gladly take pics of someone else and their fish and of course I don't mind if someone takes a picture of me with fish or whatever... It's just too much work to take a picture of your own fish.

This past weekend I watched this guy hook and land a nice 17" fish. I was a football field away from him and he was standing in the middle of the river. He netted the fish then walked to the bank with the fish in the net (leaned over to keep the fish in the water). Because I'm curious, I walked over to take a look.

I didn't think that was so bad, but he took his time getting the hook out, then while still in the net, the fish was on its side. It was still alive and breathing, but he opened his vest, went to a zipper, found a plastic ziploc bag which had his camera, turned it on, then proceeded to take pictures. Then he turned the camera off, put it back in his bag, zipped the bag, then back into his vest, then zipped the inner vest pocket back up, then let the fish go (BELLY UP). I said to him, why don't you try to revive it or at least keep it. It was clear to me that he never properly revived a trout before.

He kept the fish in the barely moving water and held it upright thinking that would take care of everything. I tried to explain to him that he had to get the water through the gills but I honestly felt that he thought I was being annoying. Anyhow, the trout did eventually swim away on its own, but I can't be too sure that it survived for too long.

Description: Asian male, white hat, awe hell... see the picture...

If you happen to run into him on the river, please explain to him how to properly release a trout. He didn't seem to want to hear it from me.

 

[rckrego]

Tourist from Japan???? they're crazy for their fly fishing over there.

 

[NJDrew]

Drew- I don't think you can really say whether you have a zero mortality rate. Its my understanding that most fish that succumb after being caught die some time after their release. Particularly with those fish that are over handled. the fungus takes time to set in. With the physical exhaustion theres a good cahnce they make it if they swim away, but even then they might have neough strength to get away from you, but die later.

Understood, I should have said "I haven't lost a fish yet as far as I know." I do try to take all precautions when handling the fish like wetting my hands, touching them as little as possible and releasing them quickly.

 

[scotth]

Thank You for all the good information. I'm very new to flyfishing and it's nice to get some information from people, and not just various books.



Regards,


Scott

 

[stumpy]

I commonly use 6x-8x tippet in most trout water, have never had a problem landing a fish quickly with that fne a tippet, and use ketchum-release type hook removers, so as to minimize handling of the fish- I almost never touch them. Does anyone else use those tools? They really make things easy on the fish as well as the fisherman. Photos are for other people.

 

[podobed45]

usually just use hemo's when their head is just out of the water.


buuuut. i have heard great things with that ketchum release tools. maybe ill pick one up

 

[NJDrew]

I commonly use 6x-8x tippet in most trout water, have never had a problem landing a fish quickly with that fne a tippet, and use ketchum-release type hook removers, so as to minimize handling of the fish- I almost never touch them. Does anyone else use those tools? They really make things easy on the fish as well as the fisherman. Photos are for other people.

Ive been using forceps, but that tool looks like a great way to un-hook a trout. How well do they work?

 

[stumpy]

Ive been using forceps, but that tool looks like a great way to un-hook a trout. How well do they work?

They work like a champ! Usually available in 2 or more sizes to accomodate different size flies. The one I have is an English design, with a weighted handle called a "preacher" for those occasions that you might want to keep a fish for the pan, one quick pop on the back of the head, and into the kreel. Sorry to all the c&r only people, but there are times when it is appropriate and tasty to make a meal of your catch.
ketchum-release tools sell for around $15 each, and usually the larger one is ok, unless you're fishing a lot of #20 and smaller flies. For release, just bring the fish in close, slip the tool over the tippet, and slide it down into the mouth 'till you feel the hook come out- no touching the fish, no lifting it out of the water.

 

[The_Sib]

Tools

How well does the ketchum release work on barbed hooks?

I'm assuming that they work really well on flies with
pinched down barbs.