Fair or foul?

[trico mike]

I was doing some research and found a few things that might interest you guys. Snagging, hooking or attempting to hook a fish where by the fish does not volluntarily take the hook into it's mouth. Foul hooked, a fish that is hook anywere but on the inside of it's mouth. Nydec, all fish foul hooked must be released immidiatley with no undue harm. That means no pics of sloppy droppies foulhooked with pegged beads.

 

[AKSkim]

I was doing some research and found a few things that might interest you guys. Snagging, hooking or attempting to hook a fish where by the fish does not volluntarily take the hook into it's mouth. Foul hooked, a fish that is hook anywere but on the inside of it's mouth. Nydec, all fish foul hooked must be released immidiatley with no undue harm.

You "Just" discovered that part of the regulations.

BRILLIANT !!!




News Flash....

Bozo just discovered the wheel.

 

[trico mike]

I love that when you don't have anything intelligent to add to a thread you resort to name calling. Got to get those post numbers up. The march to ten thousand continues.

---------- Post added at 06:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 AM ----------

Oh and by the way didn't just discover those regs mereley pointing them out for guys who choose to snaps pics of snagged fish.

 

[AKSkim]

The march to ten thousand continues.

You at least got that right Zipper Head.

 

[trico mike]

Zipper head? Pretty racist term, you and simms will be just fine togther. As I recall about 2 months ago everybody was getting on his case for racially in sensative comments. My how the tides change.

 

[LyNcH]

Oh and by the way didn't just discover those regs mereley pointing them out for guys who choose to snaps pics of snagged fish.

It's a good thing you did this. Those fish snaggers surely hang out on a fly fishing forum and now that they know the regs, they will surely stop their offensive behavior.

I too will add to the article of enlightenment. NYSDEC requires a fishing license for NY and out of state anglers.

 

[AKSkim]

it's a good thing you did this. Those fish snaggers surely hang out on a fly fishing forum and now that they know the regs, they will surely stop their offensive behavior.

I too will add to the article of enlightenment. Nysdec requires a fishing license for ny and out of state anglers.

lol .... lol..... lol..... lol .... lol..... lol.....




Body slam.................. !

 

[Andy B]

Now since the snagging might get under control can we see if we can get them to pick up and carry out there beer cans from a drunken stuper. I know one thing at a time, that might be a little to much to ask for:rofl::applaudit

 

[AKSkim]

Now since the snagging might get under control can we see if we can get them to pick up and carry out there beer cans from a drunken stuper.

The "We Fish the Salmon River Gang."

aka: "We Trash The Salmon River Gang."

 

[trico mike]

It is nice to see that when someone makes a solid point all you guys deflect the arguement. I guess it is a good way to get the post count up. I would also like to see people acting better on the river and removing their trash. As far as drinking I think it is a good way to get yourself wet or dead on the Sr. I really don't get your point though Ak, I know exactally one person in that pic and that is only from trout fishing. By the way that is the same person you said you were excited to to see tie at shannons. Now back to the topic . Foul or Fair.

---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

To get this thread back on track I'll ask you deflectors straight out. This means you AK, Andy B & Lynch is a fish hooked anywere but on the INSIDE of the mouth foul hooked. Curious to here your opinions.

 

[eddavidson9]

[/COLOR]To get this thread back on track I'll ask you deflectors straight out. This means you AK, Andy B & Lynch is a fish hooked anywere but on the INSIDE of the mouth foul hooked. Curious to here your opinions.

im not any of them, but since i know the right answer, i'll give it.

by the letter of the law (in all instances i've seen), outside the mouth is foulhooked. this is only from an enforceability standpoint however. whether hooked on the inside or on the outside of the mouth, if the fish is hooked while attempting to take the offering, it is fair hooked. a fish that eats a bead and is hooked in the ouside of the jaw is not a lined or snagged fish. in the spirit of the law and general ethic, a fish hooked on the outside of the mouth can be either fair or foul.

who else enjoys wasting time by beating a neverending controversy to death?

 

[LyNcH]

I am confused as to where I am deflecting by complimenting you on the usefulness of the content of this topic and you post Mike. I even added some additional information for those that don't know! Remember, I have no sense of humor, so I ask that you read my posts in the genuine straight forward manner of which they are typed. Please refrain from adding your interpretation of my content. So I will ask you straight out. Where am I deflecting?

I have one more question and comment for you Mike, straight out, to ponder INSIDE your head.

I see nothing solid by the points you make in this thread, they seem more like a soft ice cream cone on a hot July day. Please point out to me where in the regs DEC talks about a fish "voluntarily" taking a hook in the mouth. Can I be next.....please?

.............and what Ed Davidson said.

 

[AKSkim]

After reading Trico STOOGES rambling dribble

Doesn't he remind of you of someone ... ?

 

[CMoser]

I love that when you don't have anything intelligent to add to a thread you resort to name calling. Got to get those post numbers up. The march to ten thousand continues.

What a pathetic goal. Is this the same as saying Horray I have nothing else productive to do but spend time running other people into the ground to get to 10k

?---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

im not any of them, but since i know the right answer, i'll give it.

by the letter of the law (in all instances i've seen), outside the mouth is foulhooked. this is only from an enforceability standpoint however. whether hooked on the inside or on the outside of the mouth, if the fish is hooked while attempting to take the offering, it is fair hooked. a fish that eats a bead and is hooked in the ouside of the jaw is not a lined or snagged fish. in the spirit of the law and general ethic, a fish hooked on the outside of the mouth can be either fair or foul.

I agree with everything but the last quote. Of course you almost never see a fish take the bead so in general, if hooked outside the mounth, it is foul hooked.

 

[AKSkim]

What a pathetic goal. Is this the same as saying Horray I have nothing else productive to do but spend time running other people into the ground to get to 10k?

CLoser:

You are almost to 250 pathetic posts.

# 8261

 

[CMoser]

"You are almost to 250 pathetic posts."

LOL. I guess you got me there. Only issue is Im playing with my kids, fishing, tying, building rods and bow hunting not posting.

 

[Trouser Trout]

"You are almost to 250 pathetic posts."

LOL. I guess you got me there. Only issue is Im playing with my kids, fishing, tying, building rods and bow hunting not posting.

But, I see you have emerged from "master baiter", how is the latin coming along?

 

[AKSkim]

"You are almost to 250 pathetic posts."

LOL. I guess you got me there. Only issue is Im playing with my kids, fishing, tying, building rods and bow hunting not posting.

I guess you got me there.

Only issue there is I had my son home from college working for me all summer, going to baseball games 2-3 nights a week when they are in town, this weekend my daughter was in from Fresno, Ca. and I got a complete lesson on the House of Tudor, tying flies, working with RRTU members all summer getting ready for the start of a new year, working on my FY 2012 budget at night, and managed to read three good (non-fishing or tying) books this summer...

Thats just off the top of my head... like everyone else on here I do have another life.

Just that I do more with both.

PS

I almost forgot.
#3 daughter at PSU also worked part of the summer for me.

 

[Simms]

Mike,

I believe you have me confused with the old simms... I am the NEW simms...The simms who is NOW friends with what was his arch enemy, GOLDEN BEETLE...So please, refrain from bringing back the hatchet to circle time.

Now, I know this thread is directed at me. So, let me just say a few words... I can bet you that YOU personally have not caught a steelhead on a pegged bead.. I bet you personally have NOT seen a fish hooke din real life with a pegged bead...The pegged bead method was started by FLY FISHERMEN in alaska to reduce the mortality rate on trout/steel/varden... With the bead pegged 1.5 inches above the hook, it provides for a seemless hookset INSIDE the mouth EVER TIME! Sure, when the bead fisherman get slopped and pegg it durther than 2'', we do see some "foul hooked fish" int he side of the face. Howevr a properly placed BEAD will get them inside the mouth every time...

Personally, I have had more deep throat hooks with GLO BUGS than i care to admit...Sure, I cut the line, but fast do my stainless steelhooks rust out? oh wait, they dont.
This back to this trout season, and EVERYONE for that matter, how many fish did you foul hook? Im sure a few...Fish prob came unhooked from the point fly and you nailed him with the dropper...Do you see me starting a thread about TRICO MIKE THE BABOON's ASS WHO FISHES THE CLAREMONT STRETCH AND THINKS HE IS A GOOD FLY FISHERMAN? NO.
I am going to take it you dont swing speys either...IM not talkin about streamer, im talking SPEYS! on a t-14 head with a 14' rod... I have foul hooked more salmon/chrome and I care to admit when swinging...its jsut nature... SO before you go posting threads about bead fishermen "foul" hooking fish even though they are inside the MOUTH, just take note of the "normal" fishing practices they get their share of foul hooked fish as well..

So please, refrain from posting another comment here until you meet me streamside on the salmon river and I can show you how to fish a bead and how they are hooked inside the mouth..

However, im going to assume you are one of those keyboard incredible hulks, who's presence is known by the indicator on your profile telling you so, but never seen in real life...

 

[trico mike]

Simms, Everything I have read and watched tauts the effectiveness of pegged beads because the fish is hooked on the outside of the mouth. That is how the rig is supposed to work. You can referance the you tube video link that Lynch was kind enough to put up. As I said on the other post I can only remeber one really deep hooked fish that I have caught and it was a trout not a steelhead. Yes I do swing flies and foul hooking fish is always a possability in any style of fishing. The pegged bead system was developed specifically to foul hook fish though. I'm not claiming you are a snagger or an unethical fisherman. The point I'm trying to get at is that the system eliminates alot of what I like to call far chase. Last year I had a giant brown rise for a cricket poke it with his nose and then boil on it. He never fully took the fly but I'm sure that if I trailed a hook an inch of the back I would have caught this fish. If I catch a fish on an egg or hairwing and the fly is on the inside of it's mouth I know 100% that I had fooled the fish. Sometimes you'll get a hit and come up empty maybe the fish didn't fully take or maybe you were to slow in any event when the hook is trailing the lure by an inch or so you have a much better chance to stick him. Lynch . To answer your question I never posted that ny regs stated that a fish must take a hook voluntarily it is just a generally excepted definition of snagging. AS far as you deflection question,you proved my point exactly by not answering my question and posting some witty comments. I had asked if a fish hooked anywere but the inside of the mouth is foul hooked, you did'nt answer nor has AK or Andy. Really it is a simple question about your opinion, a yes or no would suffice. Ed, thank you for answering me with an intelligent well thought out post. While I don't agree with all your poinst I can understand your side and interpretations of the law and spirit of the law.

---------- Post added at 02:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 AM ----------

One more thing simms I don't think I have fished the clairmont in 3 or maybe even 4 years as a matter of fact I think I have only fished in nj about 4 times over the last four years so what was your point?

---------- Post added at 04:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 AM ----------

More then anything I'am sick of hearing about beads and seeing pictures of fish caught on beads. Last time I looked this is a flyfishing forum. Maybe you would be better suited posting your bead exploits on salmon crazy or gst. Bead fishing aint flyfishing. You never see me posting pics of big bass that I catch on the beach in the fall using needle fish do you? Ya know why? It aint flyfishing. Thats my last comment on this subject case closed.

 

[AKSkim]

Simms, Everything I have read and watched tauts the effectiveness of pegged beads because the fish is hooked on the outside of the mouth. That is how the rig is supposed to work. You can referance the you tube video link that Lynch was kind enough to put up. As I said on the other post I can only remeber one really deep hooked fish that I have caught and it was a trout not a steelhead. Yes I do swing flies and foul hooking fish is always a possability in any style of fishing. The pegged bead system was developed specifically to foul hook fish though. I'm not claiming you are a snagger or an unethical fisherman. The point I'm trying to get at is that the system eliminates alot of what I like to call far chase. Last year I had a giant brown rise for a cricket poke it with his nose and then boil on it. He never fully took the fly but I'm sure that if I trailed a hook an inch of the back I would have caught this fish. If I catch a fish on an egg or hairwing and the fly is on the inside of it's mouth I know 100% that I had fooled the fish. Sometimes you'll get a hit and come up empty maybe the fish didn't fully take or maybe you were to slow in any event when the hook is trailing the lure by an inch or so you have a much better chance to stick him. Lynch . To answer your question I never posted that ny regs stated that a fish must take a hook voluntarily it is just a generally excepted definition of snagging. AS far as you deflection question,you proved my point exactly by not answering my question and posting some witty comments. I had asked if a fish hooked anywere but the inside of the mouth is foul hooked, you did'nt answer nor has AK or Andy. Really it is a simple question about your opinion, a yes or no would suffice. Ed, thank you for answering me with an intelligent well thought out post. While I don't agree with all your poinst I can understand your side and interpretations of the law and spirit of the law. One more thing simms I don't think I have fished the clairmont in 3 or maybe even 4 years as a matter of fact I think I have only fished in nj about 4 times over the last four years so what was your point? More then anything I'am sick of hearing about beads and seeing pictures of fish caught on beads. Last time I looked this is a flyfishing forum. Maybe you would be better suited posting your bead exploits on salmon crazy or gst. Bead fishing aint flyfishing. You never see me posting pics of big bass that I catch on the beach in the fall using needle fish do you? Ya know why? It aint flyfishing. Thats my last comment on this subject case closed.

Thank God I own the ball other wise Little Mikey would have taken that home with him also.

Blah.. .blah... blah....blahhhhhhh....

Ever notice when someone writes these long drawn out responses, it seems that they are trying
their darnest to convince themselves more than anyone else at what ever they are trying to sell.

NO SALE.


WE WIN !!!

 

[LyNcH]

Trico, I did not answer your question because my opinion on the matter is about as relevant to the topic as me posting that anglers in NY must have a fishing license.

Although you have decided to have the last word.........you said: "I'am sick of hearing about beads and seeing pictures of fish caught on beads" You are the one who started this stupidity, which is what all this was. I do thank you for it because it gave me entertainment during my morning coffee and helped during my sanity breaks at work. Also, could you please reference these pictures of fish that have been caught with beads? If I am understanding your post correctly, they are being posted all over the place yet I can't seem to find them. I know you haven't seen any posted by the LyNcH.

I just might have to have Simms rig me up this fall so I can have first hand understanding of how it works and where the fish is hooked. I will compare it to how I usually fish, which has already been posted. I can tell you this, if the fish I land with this method are consistently hooked way under the chin, near their hinge, etc, this will not be a method I use. I said this before and I'll say it again, I have seen what bead fishing with CP rods does to the hinge of a steelhead. The difference I see between the 2 moethods is bead placement in relation to the hook. I have never seen a bead placed so close to hook on cenetr pin rigs. The guides up there tend to rig the bead 3"-4" from the hook, which in turn explains the mouth/hinge ripping, which is a tragedy. Does that answer your question? It's similar to what I said about 3 days ago when I posted the damage I have seen to fish on the North Sandy.

So I leave you with this final thought on the subject case closed no punctuation run-on sentence.

Let it be my brother.......enjoy yourself when you have the opportunity to fish, maybe we'll run into each other on the river and you may not seem so bad while not on your computer. If we do run into each other, and you come across as Mr. know-it-all fly fisherman, as you try to be on this board, let me clue you into non-verbal behavior (most know-it-all's are not capable of reading social cues and as they are so focused on themselves). If I start to respond to everything with a "uh-huh", "yep", "ok". and slowly turn my back to you, that means you are a wanna-be know-it-all. Let's hope that's not the case.

 

[G Lech]

Steelhead bring out the worst in people.
Just fish! Who gives a shit!

But I can see where some MIGHT argue that bead fishing can considered "foul" and I can see where the other side will argue it's not.

I have my opinion but I will leave it out.


Hey Mike you wanna the hit the claremont later and learn how to swing spey flies?

 

[Simms]

A properly placed bead should be NO MORE than two finger widths from the hook...

I guess all I have to do is tie some veil to the hook and trice will call it fly fishing?

I also want to say, I run a PEGGED bead in front of my speys and big streamers sometime on the Salmon River...It just gives a little more "steak and potatoes" look to the fly and works very well.

Trico Mike, I hope you attend the 1st Annual Steelhead Bash this year..Hell, Ill even let you float with me...I make no enemies..A fisherman is a friend...REgardless if you you masterbait, dunk garden hackle, or fish with needle fish...and JESUS CHRIST FISH WITH NEEDLE FISH?! Atleast I use a fricken fly rod and fly line when fishing this 'barbaric' bead method...On second thought, spin fisherman are enemies....

Just browsing through some of my pics...

Tell me where you see my hook on the FACE/CHIN/ or Gill plate? YOU DONT.

Again? NOPE..hook is JUST inside the corner of the mouth...

OH AND LOOK AT THIS..this fish was no more than 10 inches long, and the hook is inside the mouth!!!

LOOK AT THIS ONE!! INSIDE THE MOUTH!!!! OHHH NOOOO

And this is prob the "worst" hook out of all there, and still, in the corner of the mouth...

Inside the mouth, AGAIN...

Trico Mike, please dont knock it till you have experienced it...

 

[AKSkim]

Thats my last comment on this subject case closed.

POOF POSITIVE

There is no teaching the dumb.

He opens the can of worms and when the entire NEFF community attempts to right him,
he squeals and runs away.

Oh Mikey Baby... you forgot your can ....

 

[Andy B]

I had asked if a fish hooked anywere but the inside of the mouth is foul hooked, you did'nt answer nor has AK or Andy. Really it is a simple question about your opinion, a yes or no would suffice. Ed, thank you for answering me with an intelligent well thought out post. While I don't agree with all your poinst I can understand your side and interpretations of the law and spirit of the law.

Honestly Mike if you had to ask this question or go with what's your opinion then that means you either do not know or are not sure. This is a pretty straight forward question that I believe you already have the answer for. So my question back to you, what is the point. I never claim when you look at my post's on fishing in general on NEFF to be answering questions or adding input. So why is that. It is because I do not know everything and do not claim to like some on this board. I learn something new every day. I too have another life and it keeps me plenty active right now. I chime in every now and then. I do not have to answer you nor feel obligated to do so. If you know me then you know my answer. But from the looks of it you do not know me. Time to end this post due to some do not know or will ever know that snagging fish is wrong period and if one truly feels proud by fish snagging then I know of people with no respect for life, sport and a sence of education. Sigh :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

 

[GARYB]

If I hook a fish other than inside the mouth...........snagged, unless the fish
rises to my fly, then I count it. But doesn't matter I usually keep my count to
myself.
As far as beads, I don't consider fly fishing........don't care if "invented" by
flyfishers in Alaska.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Why don't you all switch to dry flies? Cased closed

I will never understand the mentality of the snagger, but that's just me. Catch it legally or not at all.

 

[Simms]

Oh mikey baby, where art thou?

 

[AKSkim]

Oh mikey baby, where art thou?

Don't forget, we just had a bunch of rain.

That is when all the worms come out of the ground.

Didn't rain today.... so guess where he is now....