Give us a try!
Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!
Deposit DEP permit
- Thread starter EB WADER
- Start date
Here is PA there have been two recent situations where contaminants have spilled into waters...in both cases upstream reservoirs released water to dilute/flush the stuff out of the system. You would think in this case some water would be released for dilution purposes from Cannonsville?? Or I guess not, since they do have a permit and the amount being discharged is well below an amount which could harm anyone?
I don't know, but if NYCDEP does not release water for this purpose, how does anyone think they will release water for the fish. It is shame...maybe in the coming years the trout will get some relief.
I don't know, but if NYCDEP does not release water for this purpose, how does anyone think they will release water for the fish. It is shame...maybe in the coming years the trout will get some relief.
Bsides the Deposit Seage Treatment plant, has anyone heard anything about a sewage treatment plant in hancock, dumping in just above junction pool? I heard this from someone who may not have the story straight.
A larger release may be a good thing for diluting but chlorine is still needed to kill the bacteria in the sewage.
I wonder if more water would mean more chlorine needed and would more chlorine added then is already going in have more of a negative effect on the ecosystem than whats being done now?
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I have no idea.
A larger release may be a good thing for diluting but chlorine is still needed to kill the bacteria in the sewage.
I wonder if more water would mean more chlorine needed and would more chlorine added then is already going in have more of a negative effect on the ecosystem than whats being done now?
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I have no idea.
Joe D
Registered User
The sewer plant in Hancock is working.
The sewage in Deposit is treated with chlorine and then released into the river. So additional water in the river doesn't mean more chlorine. More water from Cannonsville would certainly help matters with additional dilution of the sewage.
At maximum capacity, the sewer plant is releasing 400,000 gallons per day. This averages out to .62 cfs. A large percentage of Deposits sewage is from ground water that gets into the system from faulty sewer lines in the village. This crap is then chlorinated to kill bacteria and piped into the river. Even when the plant was working properly the discharge was treated with chlorine. Now it is treated with a higher dose. The more water flowing in the river simply means that the percentage of sewage is less.
As Coz mentioned, the sewer plant will be partially functional in seven weeks or so. Hopefully at that time chlorine usage will be adjusted accordingly.
Joe
The sewage in Deposit is treated with chlorine and then released into the river. So additional water in the river doesn't mean more chlorine. More water from Cannonsville would certainly help matters with additional dilution of the sewage.
At maximum capacity, the sewer plant is releasing 400,000 gallons per day. This averages out to .62 cfs. A large percentage of Deposits sewage is from ground water that gets into the system from faulty sewer lines in the village. This crap is then chlorinated to kill bacteria and piped into the river. Even when the plant was working properly the discharge was treated with chlorine. Now it is treated with a higher dose. The more water flowing in the river simply means that the percentage of sewage is less.
As Coz mentioned, the sewer plant will be partially functional in seven weeks or so. Hopefully at that time chlorine usage will be adjusted accordingly.
Joe
HydeLowRider
Member
I am Profoundly Disturbed by This
Why doesn't the Town of Deposit ship out this waste by Truck? The river is the most valuable possession the region has today. I just wish the local, state and federal governments would recognize this today.
Hot Topics
Village of Deposit Dumping Sewage in the Upper Delaware
The Village of Deposit is discharging 400 million gallons of chlorinated raw sewage into the West Branch of the Delaware River. Deposit’s sewage treatment plant was damaged in recent flooding. Rather than truck their sewage offsite for treatment and disposal at a fully operational facility (as is often done elsewhere in like circumstances) Deposit is dumping their sewage, treated only with chlorination, into the river.
The Delaware River is used by hundreds of thousands of individuals every year with use highest in the hot months of summer. Boaters, swimmers, fishers, birders and more gather in and around the River to appreciate its cool, flowing beauty and bounty. Children splash in its waters, families spend hard earned dollars to vacation in and along the river, fishers invest time and money in their favorite past time, fishing the Delaware River, its headwaters and tributaries. To knowingly discharge chlorinated raw sewage or partially treated sewage into the waters of the Delaware River and to knowingly subject our communities and ecosystems to all the dangerous contaminants found in this effluent is illegal and unacceptable. The precedent that is being set by New York and Deposit for our region is dangerous and damaging.
Reports are that this discharge will continue for nearly 2 whole months – taking us through July, August and September, high vacation and recreational months for the Delaware River, and a time of year when flows are often at their lowest and aquatic life are more vulnerable. Yes, we just had a flood and high flows along the Delaware, but this most recent storm event will not provide full protection to those ecosystems from the stresses of the hot summer months and increased pollution discharges from Deposit. In addition, ecotourism businesses are dependent upon the public’s perception of the River’s health – hearing that chlorinated raw sewage is being dumped upstream could have a harmful impact on these businesses, particularly those supporting contact recreation. The Upper reaches of the Delaware System are important economically to the region – the discharge of chlorinated raw sewage or partially treated sewage will inflict far reaching economic harms to people and businesses throughout the region. Reports that the system will not be fully functional for 2 years ensure that the impacts of the failures at Deposit will have long-term and cumulative effects on all.
The receiving waters of the main stem Upper Delaware River is designated as both Wild and Scenic and Special Protection Waters. The high quality waters and exceptional resources of this part of the watershed are entitled to a higher level of protection. The Delaware River is an important drinking water supply for many. It is incumbent on those upstream to respect and protect downstream users, just as those receiving water supply from the upstream reservoirs expect and receive a heightened level of protection.
The Delaware Riverkeeper Network has contacted state and federal officials to oppose what is happening at Deposit. It is DRN’s position that the Village of Deposit must be required to identify and carry out a short term and long term strategy that will not subject our Delaware River and all those who depend upon it and appreciate it to their sewage. Until a better solution can be identified, Deposit must be required to truck its sewage to an alternative treatment plant for treatment and disposal
7/20/06
Why doesn't the Town of Deposit ship out this waste by Truck? The river is the most valuable possession the region has today. I just wish the local, state and federal governments would recognize this today.
Hot Topics
Village of Deposit Dumping Sewage in the Upper Delaware
The Village of Deposit is discharging 400 million gallons of chlorinated raw sewage into the West Branch of the Delaware River. Deposit’s sewage treatment plant was damaged in recent flooding. Rather than truck their sewage offsite for treatment and disposal at a fully operational facility (as is often done elsewhere in like circumstances) Deposit is dumping their sewage, treated only with chlorination, into the river.
The Delaware River is used by hundreds of thousands of individuals every year with use highest in the hot months of summer. Boaters, swimmers, fishers, birders and more gather in and around the River to appreciate its cool, flowing beauty and bounty. Children splash in its waters, families spend hard earned dollars to vacation in and along the river, fishers invest time and money in their favorite past time, fishing the Delaware River, its headwaters and tributaries. To knowingly discharge chlorinated raw sewage or partially treated sewage into the waters of the Delaware River and to knowingly subject our communities and ecosystems to all the dangerous contaminants found in this effluent is illegal and unacceptable. The precedent that is being set by New York and Deposit for our region is dangerous and damaging.
Reports are that this discharge will continue for nearly 2 whole months – taking us through July, August and September, high vacation and recreational months for the Delaware River, and a time of year when flows are often at their lowest and aquatic life are more vulnerable. Yes, we just had a flood and high flows along the Delaware, but this most recent storm event will not provide full protection to those ecosystems from the stresses of the hot summer months and increased pollution discharges from Deposit. In addition, ecotourism businesses are dependent upon the public’s perception of the River’s health – hearing that chlorinated raw sewage is being dumped upstream could have a harmful impact on these businesses, particularly those supporting contact recreation. The Upper reaches of the Delaware System are important economically to the region – the discharge of chlorinated raw sewage or partially treated sewage will inflict far reaching economic harms to people and businesses throughout the region. Reports that the system will not be fully functional for 2 years ensure that the impacts of the failures at Deposit will have long-term and cumulative effects on all.
The receiving waters of the main stem Upper Delaware River is designated as both Wild and Scenic and Special Protection Waters. The high quality waters and exceptional resources of this part of the watershed are entitled to a higher level of protection. The Delaware River is an important drinking water supply for many. It is incumbent on those upstream to respect and protect downstream users, just as those receiving water supply from the upstream reservoirs expect and receive a heightened level of protection.
The Delaware Riverkeeper Network has contacted state and federal officials to oppose what is happening at Deposit. It is DRN’s position that the Village of Deposit must be required to identify and carry out a short term and long term strategy that will not subject our Delaware River and all those who depend upon it and appreciate it to their sewage. Until a better solution can be identified, Deposit must be required to truck its sewage to an alternative treatment plant for treatment and disposal
7/20/06
Last edited:
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
400 million gallons? Where did that number come from, does anyone know? A day? Until it's back online? 400 million a day is like 4500 gallons a second. That's over 600cfs! Last time I looked Hale Eddy was not up that high. Check my math, but I think the author should have cleared that one up before it was written. Well if it is 400 million gallons over whatever time period, does anyone want to take a stab at how many tankers it would take to truck 400 million gallons of anything off site? At an estimated 10,000 gallons per truck load, that's a mere 40,000 trips. What's a trucker get for haulin' a 10,000 gallon load of sewage? X 40,000... There goes all that hard earned cash that came in from the fisherfolk all year...
Eagle Claw
Trout Hunter
I dont want to get too graphic, most will get the point. If you have ever seen a treatment plant from the inside, and I have, there is a rake that pulls out solid items that may be flushed down the toilets such as paper and other type items. I wonder if that part of the treatment system is operational or is just water soluable items being discharged. The soluable is bad enough,hope the other stuff does not litter the banks.
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
Johnw said:
Thank you Johnw. I think we can all speculate a reason or two.
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
dcabarle said:
Well, it's been three days since I immersed myself in the "Black Lagoon", and I have yet to suffer any ill effects or witness any unusal growths or critters on my body. Of course though, I was in a full haz-mat suit. They're now selling them at all the local fly shops I believe. All, kidding aside, I saw NO TURDS floating, emerging, subsurface or otherwise. I smelled NO TURD AROMA. The water was CLOUDY. Not to muddy the waters (pun intended), I do not know if this was the color of the water coming from the dam OR due to the discharge. I would BET that it was due to what is coming from the dam. Does anyone know where the sewage discharge enters the WB exactly? Next time I go I can take a look upstream AND downstream to give you guys a clearer picture (pun intended again) as to what the situation is.
Dennis, I saw NO fecal maggots! BUT I am working up a fly pattern based on them, do you have any good photos of a fecal maggot that I can go on? Now that would technically be a nymph, yes?
Future Fanatic
Nirvana
Fly Tier said:
Thanks a bunch! I'm on it!!!
(I don't even want to ask what that is or why you felt the need to get a shot of it...)
Scott
Salmo salar Sebago finatic
HydeLowRider said:
This is what you are asking:
A tanker truck holds about 9000 gallons.
If they are discharging 400,000 gallons per day, that means they need to load 44.44 trucks per day, or 1.85 trucks per hour.
So to put a hypothetical dollar amount to it, Assume another treatment plant will take it for free. Let's also assume a cost of $500 per truck load, probably a low estimate. That's $22,200 per day.
So over the 7 weeks it will take to get the plant "partially" functional (which I read in a previous post) that means $1,087,000 in shipping costs alone.
Let's also assume that 300 fly fishermen chip in to pay for the trucking costs.
That's $3,286 per fisherman - about $74 per day. That's almost 20 Grande decaf no-foam lattes per day.
That's a new Sage TXL rod every week for almost two months.
It would be cheaper to buy a town-wide supply of immodium and ask the people to crap in a bucket.
Think about that the next time you have to drop the kids off at the pool...
hatchman
Just a lucky soul,enjoying God's gifts to us.
Logistical details aside(finding enough poop hauling tankers to be on call everyday etc.) That figure is a small amount for something that should fall into FEMA's category for federal funding for a natural disaster.Don't get me wrong I think the DEP dropped the ball on this issue,and river discharge of the sewage was the easiest solution to a complex problem.I think they could have brought in big storage tanks ,set up in tandem ,to buffer the flow of sewage and truck it away in tankers.I don't think the sewage is as much a problem as other substances(sewage is just a protein that breaks down like all other proteins,like dead fish,fish poop critter poop etc.,that occurs naturally in all rivers) washed into the rivers such as waste oil,fuel oil from underground tanks,and other chemicals stored in underground tanks ,drums etc. and inside manufacturing facilities that were decimated by the raging flood waters,and washed into the rivers and water table of the area.I think a close monitering of the river over time,and studying the insect populations(stone flies don't do well in substandard quality water) will tell the true damage to the water quality due to the flood.That somewhat depressing diatribe aside,I have seen totally polluted rivers clean themselves out over time once the pollutants were stopped.I'm not talking about heavy metals pollutions like in the Hudson river dredging scenerio,I am talking about rivers polluted by sewage .The Lackawanna near my home is a perfect example.The Lackawanna was a sewage polluted mess years ago,and most locals still think it is ,but through efforts of river coalitions,and fly fisherman the river has turned around dramatically and actually has a trophy trout section,and naturally producing brown trout population.
