What we're not doing

[Catskill Mountain Man]

First, let me start off by applauding the people working on the Mucky, oops I mean Musky. As a fellow crick fisherman I always have to give credit where credit is due. But, what aren't we doing? From salmon in Maine to brookies in the south, the Eastern U.S. is plagued by water quality problems. From dams, and culverts, to siltation from construction, and ATV's. To make matters worse, add to it the more direct conundrums like energy exploration and "drought proofing" the South (the damn Tellico and Little Tennessee).
With all this upcoming excitment of dams actually coming down and "sucess" stories all over TU's website. Have we really stopped and evaluated if what we're focusing on is the biggest problem to fly fishing as a whole in our part of the counrty? And is what we are focusing on keeping us from bigger problems for our trout?

good: Musky gets 2 dams removed
bad: East branch gets millions of gallons of water taken from it a day
good: Tellico gets atv's off of it's tribs
bad: drought in the south could push for new resivours

Or the worst problem for Right Coast Fly-fishers (RCFF). Development. Not only are my local stream destroyed by it but I belive that most members here (from nj) have had streams destroyed because of development also. The saddle, musky, SBR, NBR and countless others. Take all of the problems with streams and combine them and devlopment would still take the cake for destroying the most trout criks.

So not only is the long term out-look grim for us and our children. But, with every step forward (dam removal) there are hundreds of steps back. With every person who moves into a valued watershed we take a step back. So are dams, atv's, and poor releases the problem? Or should we look into slowing development? But, then of course that is contrary to industrialzation and economics and is always a bad idea for local economy and people's lives. So then another long pondered question rears it's ugly head.


Trout or people?

 

[Rusty Spinner]

It's not about "slowing development", the only way to do that is to impose
Draconian measures like in China to limit population growth. The answer is in smart development. NJ has finally woken up to some extent and given us C-1 regulations on some of our important trout stream, for example, and we now have 300' minimum buffers from development.

The problem we face in the east and anywhere heavy development has occurred is that we waited far too long to stop building next to our drinking water supplies or in the flood plain. But all is not lost, developers and planning boards are beginning to see the wisdom of cluster developments where homes are built close to each other on large properties, with the balance of the land left natural and shopping is built on site to reduce the need to drive to stores. Only one example, but all hope is not lost.

 

[flyI4]

the east branch is only going to lead to a few cfs per day lowerage so im not to worried about that, and it hasnt even been passed yet. Lets be real, the lower east is never going to be treated as a legit fishery and in my oppinion the less hot water thats flowing into the mainstem from that end the better, since the mainstem has a lot more worth in saving then the lower east. Even if the upper east had a consistent cold flow, it wouldnt be enough to keep it cool over the summer so it is what it is...a decent spring and fall fishery. Now if we could only get the wb at a decent steady flow to keep the mainstem going....we'd have a world class fishery

 

[Drossi]

The economic downturn will do more to slow development in the coming years than anything else. No cheap funding (i.e. loans) will severly curtail building.

 

[babyblue]

Drossi,
Where did you get the idea money is expensive?

 

[Drossi]

Drossi,
Where did you get the idea money is expensive?

It's not that its expensive it's just that for the immediate future you will have to be credit worthy to get a loan to build or buy...at least we as taxpayers should hope.

 

[babyblue]

Ya think it should have been that way all along? It sounds as though that is a revelation.

If you have great credit and a job, money is about as cheap as you will ever see.

 

[eelweir]

the east branch is only going to lead to a few cfs per day lowerage so im not to worried about that, and it hasnt even been passed yet. Lets be real, the lower east is never going to be treated as a legit fishery and in my oppinion the less hot water thats flowing into the mainstem from that end the better, since the mainstem has a lot more worth in saving then the lower east. Even if the upper east had a consistent cold flow, it wouldnt be enough to keep it cool over the summer so it is what it is...a decent spring and fall fishery. Now if we could only get the wb at a decent steady flow to keep the mainstem going....we'd have a world class fishery

These "few" CFS being sucked from the East Branch represent the tip of the iceberg if gas drilling in the Delaware watershed is approved. There is the potential for many gas companies looking to dip their respective straws in lots of streams including the mainstem and West Branch. We can't get complacent on these type of proposals or the fishery will suffer death of a thousand cuts (or gulps). If you want to keep OUR water in OUR Catskill Rivers, you should send an email to Carol Collier from the DRBC (carol.collier@drbc.state.nj.us) and her not to allow gas drilling in the Delware watershed. The trout and your grandkids will thank you...

 

[Future Fanatic]

These "few" CFS being sucked from the East Branch represent the tip of the iceberg if gas drilling in the Delaware watershed is approved. There is the potential for many gas companies looking to dip their respective straws in lots of streams including the mainstem and West Branch. We can't get complacent on these type of proposals or the fishery will suffer death of a thousand cuts (or gulps). If you want to keep OUR water in OUR Catskill Rivers, you should send an email to Carol Collier from the DRBC (carol.collier@drbc.state.nj.us) and her not to allow gas drilling in the Delware watershed. The trout and your grandkids will thank you...

You see, there's another side to this. I propose that we MAKE the gas companies take the water out of the lower East Branch between the hours of 12-6pm during July and August ONLY. They would then be sucking up ridiculously warm water right BEFORE it gets to the Mainstem. The West Branch would then be a HIGHER percentage of the water in the Mainstem and THUS, be cooler for the trout. Sure it would be a bit less water, but it would not matter, because it would be colder.

I therefore ask ALL groups and individuals who CARE about the TROUT in our great Delaware, to PUSH the DRBC to mandate that ALL gas drillers pull their water from the East Branch between 12-6pm in July and August ONLY.

The TROUT will Thank You.

 

[Uncrowded]

You see, there's another side to this. I propose that we MAKE the gas companies take the water out of the lower East Branch between the hours of 12-6pm during July and August ONLY. They would then be sucking up ridiculously warm water right BEFORE it gets to the Mainstem. The West Branch would then be a HIGHER percentage of the water in the Mainstem and THUS, be cooler for the trout. Sure it would be a bit less water, but it would not matter, because it would be colder.

I therefore ask ALL groups and individuals who CARE about the TROUT in our great Delaware, to PUSH the DRBC to mandate that ALL gas drillers pull their water from the East Branch between 12-6pm in July and August ONLY.

The TROUT will Thank You.

Great idea. I think we should let the gas companies de-water the East Branch entirely. It's a warm, bad river. Might as well head up the Beaverkill, too. That gets pretty warm. And the mainstem below Callicoon gets really warm, too...

 

[Catskill Mountain Man]

Great idea. I think we should let the gas companies de-water the East Branch entirely. It's a warm, bad river. Might as well head up the Beaverkill, too. That gets pretty warm. And the mainstem below Callicoon gets really warm, too...

ARE YOU ON CRACK? This better be sarcasim...


As to your statement "Eelwier". That is a great idea in some forms. But what about bug life below the all the spots ther are withdrawing at that time? YES, the east branch is warm BUT it holds some of the best bug life. If every gas company turns on their pumps at that time in JULY and AUGUST only. The water level will drop dramatically and nymphs would be stranded to bake in the sun. The outcome will hurt the hatches in the catskills as a whole.

 

[Uncrowded]

Let the record show that NO I'm not on crack, YES this was sarcasm, and that FUTURE FANATIC, not EELWEIR, came up with the idea of allowing the gas companies to "have at it" by taking lots and lots of water from our trout streams...

Hmmm, do I smell a signed gas lease somewhere....

 

[Future Fanatic]

Let the record show that NO I'm not on crack, YES this was sarcasm, and that FUTURE FANATIC, not EELWEIR, came up with the idea of allowing the gas companies to "have at it" by taking lots and lots of water from our trout streams...

Hmmm, do I smell a signed gas lease somewhere....

Better get the nose checked, Steve-o. BUT there is still hope.

And let the record show, by NO means did I say that the gas companies should " ...'have at it' by taking lots and lots of water..."

The water I sarcastically proposed they take is water NO TROUT would want. Certainly, for years and years trout fisherman have cursed the water that flows to the Junction of the Ds at that time of year. The relatively cool waters of the West Branch get diluted with the warm waters that flow from that 30 mile trip from Pepacton and of course the near bath water from the Beaverkill. This certainly impacts the temperature of the Mainstem.

By the way, as someone posted in another thread, "1 million gallons is equal to about 5 CFS if withdrawn over 8 hrs". Is 500cfs of 75 degree water better than 495cfs of 73 degree water in the Mainstem? The amount of water is NOT the problem. BUT it would be even less than "not the problem" if that water that they did take was reused time after time.

I KNOW that the DRBC is not going to stop all the drilling. What every concerned activist should be pushing for is the mandating of the use of a closed loop system and the reusing of water from each completed well to the next new site.

 

[Kilgour Farms]

One million gallons is equal to 5.5cfs over a 24 hour peroid.

I also agree with FF closed loop system. They are currently trying a new drilling technique, air drilling in western PA.

Right now the DRBC is being reactive with their approach to drilling issues, they say they don't know what to do.

What makes you think they will be able to regulate drilling when they can't regulate stream flows? I think it would be better left to the state regulators.

 

[Kilgour Farms]

I have heard that since NYC is going to work on the aqueducts this November that several groups are talking to NYC about increasing the summer flows and having NYC make up the difference starting in November when they close them rather then having excessive water flows in the winter months.