Vermont and Big Browns

[flyI4]

So- being bored at work on a Friday I have been browsing looking at new locations to fish. My search criteria is always the same- "Big browns". In looking at Vermont, it seems that there are a few streams up there that produce some really really big fish, and even more interesting is they are fairly small waters. In looking them up, these streams appear to all be in a similar part of Vermont, and I am wondering if these are lake run fish out of lake champlain, or whether these streams support these types of big brownies on their own. Specifically, I have been looking at otter creek and the dog river. Anyone ever hit them before? If Not check out these pics and you should be intrigued.

Vermont Fish & Wildlife

 

[Trout Nazi]

Ok, so let's get one thing settled straight up, browns of the size you get up in the Delaware are not as common up in VT. You have to work really hard and put alot of time on different waters to find them. They are there though, in some unlikely places (see my VT post from a while back)

Regarding the Dog and Otter, the Otter has a 80ft high hydro dam in Vergennes, and the Dog is a trib of the Winooski, which is dammed up as well before Champlain. Never fished the Otter, but I fish the Winooski alot. Winooski is more of a Rainbow fisheries ( some big boys in there). Never got into any big browns, but the state record was caught in the Little River, which is a poorly managed tail water trib.

Most of my 17-20" browns have come from little known, nutrient poor streams that are off the beaten path, and those fish were the exceptions, not the rule. Just trying to manage expectations here.

 

[flyI4]

gotcha-- thanks for the info. Sometimes its all relative and a 16-17'' fish in a small stream feels like a 22-24'' fish in a larger river. Some of those pics on the vt fish and game website are of both big and beautiful browns that look to be wild fish.

 

[flyI4]

and then there is this thing, which is just downright gigantic and also appears to be a wild fish

 

[Flyzlo]

I'm a NJ guy with a son in college in VT so I get up there for drop-offs/pick ups. I never fished Otter, but the Dog goes through his campus. I fished it once before the massive Irene flood of 2011. The stretch from Northfield downstream (North) to Montpilier has some deep holes and undercuts. I didn't touch a fish but it has potential. It's one of those low gradient meadow streams with a fair amount of sand/silt, so if you're looking to fly fish it, you may want find a decent hatch first. I saw no signs of life in the air, but it was also late summer. I understand there are bunch of tiny brooks around with wild brookies, just haven't found them yet.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Something is up with the Dog. There has been a massive decline in fish over the past few years, and no one knows why. F&G and others have tried to look into it, but there is not obvious cause. Ironically, the fishing downstream in the Winooski is pretty good, there are some pretty big bows down there, but they're tough to catch. I've seen some that were in the 24" range, but they hardly ever look up. Most who have caught them have nymphed them up.

The picture of the giant fish looks like it was caught at the dam in Vergennes, in which case its a Champlain-run fish. Suprised there are no lampry scars on it. A fish like that is uncommon, I can tell you that for sure. I'm pretty good friends with a guide up there as well, so I have a pretty good idea of the size of trout being caught. Hatches up there are also not as prolific, since most of the smaller streams are nutrient poor. I do know a couple of spots that get a good Hendrickson hatch though.

 

[Trout Nazi]

gotcha-- thanks for the info. Sometimes its all relative and a 16-17'' fish in a small stream feels like a 22-24'' fish in a larger river. Some of those pics on the vt fish and game website are of both big and beautiful browns that look to be wild fish.

Usually fishing those streams with a 3wt, so when I get into a fish like that its fun. There is one relatively unknow tail-water up there that is a small stream, but harbors some big browns. Serious bush-wacking is required though, you literally have to hike a mile upstream to get to where the fishing gets good, no trails, and some serious undergrowth. I routinely catch 14-16" fish there, have heard confirmed reports of some monsters, but have not gotten into one yet as its a bitch to get to and fish.

 

[lightenup]

I drive over all those creeks on my way to Smuggs every year....I always look at the frozen water ans wonder what is lurking......there a promising looking creek that runs down from the notch...I believe it is called the Brewster. .but I am not sure...from the looks of things, maybe a spring trip is in order....that is one large brown.....

 

[Trout Nazi]

I drive over all those creeks on my way to Smuggs every year....I always look at the frozen water ans wonder what is lurking......there a promising looking creek that runs down from the notch...I believe it is called the Brewster. .but I am not sure...from the looks of things, maybe a spring trip is in order....that is one large brown.....

Just stay on your side of the Notch, other side is my water.

FYI, the Lamoile at the end of 108 there is awesome for smallmouth, head upstream about 10 miles and its trout water. There is alot of good water in the area that you're missing out on. Especially when its hot down here in the summer.

 

[lightenup]

Just stay on your side of the Notch, other side is my water.

FYI, the Lamoile at the end of 108 there is awesome for smallmouth, head upstream about 10 miles and its trout water. There is alot of good water in the area that you're missing out on. Especially when its hot down here in the summer.

Don't worry, you won't see me rubbing elbows with the pretentious Stowe crowd....Taxpayers bailed out your mountain.....:looser:

I want to fish those falls in Vergennes....

 

[Trout Nazi]

Don't worry, you won't see me rubbing elbows with the pretentious Stowe crowd....Taxpayers bailed out your mountain.....:looser:

I want to fish those falls in Vergennes....

Who needs tax payers when you're raping people on lift tickets?

FYI, one of the best guides, if the not the best guide, in the area is also the bartender at the Mansfield base lodge, thats his winter job.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I know the Dog fairly well and was there just last August again. It was dead of all life. I recall seeing a single, 4" wild brown trout and not another fish of any size or any species in the half mile of water I walked. The channels had been completely scoured by Irene to the point where 100% of the insect life was wiped out, crashing the food chain. It's going to take some more years before insects repopulate in good enough numbers for wild trout to rebound in many areas.

I was stunned by what I saw and spent some time flipping rocks and not finding bugs. The river bottom looked like it had been pressure washed clean. I think it's just one of those catastrophic flood events that alters a stream's health for years after. It will come back, but it will take time. I'll be back up this August and will take another look locally.

 

[Trout Nazi]

I know the Dog fairly well and was there just last August again. It was dead of all life. I recall seeing a single, 4" wild brown trout and not another fish of any size or any species in the half mile of water I walked. The channels had been completely scoured by Irene to the point where 100% of the insect life was wiped out, crashing the food chain. It's going to take some more years before insects repopulate in good enough numbers for wild trout to rebound in many areas.

I was stunned by what I saw and spent some time flipping rocks and not finding bugs. The river bottom looked like it had been pressure washed clean. I think it's just one of those catastrophic flood events that alters a stream's health for years after. It will come back, but it will take time. I'll be back up this August and will take another look locally.

Whats been happening with the Dog has been going on well before Irene, although Irene certainly didn't help. Most of the mountain streams up there are similar to the dog, you flip over rocks and find very little, except for some very tiny critters scurring around. The part of the Dog from the Winooski up for about a mile is spectacular, you just won't catch much.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Whats been happening with the Dog has been going on well before Irene, although Irene certainly didn't help. Most of the mountain streams up there are similar to the dog, you flip over rocks and find very little, except for some very tiny critters scurring around. The part of the Dog from the Winooski up for about a mile is spectacular, you just won't catch much.

I'm going back in August to float the upper CT with my buddy and fellow staff, Joe Norton in his boat. But I'll be staying with family in E. Montpelier, so will also hit the Dog if not the Winooski or Lamoille.

 

[Philthy Phil]

My sister went to school in Vermont and the white river flowed right through town. The conditions were always crappy on the main river while I was visiting. It kinda reminded me of the Lehigh...has a lot of potential but the conditions are flukey. I did stumble into some good brook trout water with first to last cast fish, high number days...Im not as adventurous with the brookies as I was then but maybe ill get the bug again...

 

[Trout Nazi]

My sister went to school in Vermont and the white river flowed right through town. The conditions were always crappy on the main river while I was visiting. It kinda reminded me of the Lehigh...has a lot of potential but the conditions are flukey. I did stumble into some good brook trout water with first to last cast fish, high number days...Im not as adventurous with the brookies as I was then but maybe ill get the bug again...

Just about every little stream that doesn't dry up and stays cold has brookies in it. The White looks like an awesome river to float, but I hear it gets warm. Need to go really high upstream.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Just about every little stream that doesn't dry up and stays cold has brookies in it.

That is so true of VT. We had a small stream flow past our old ski house that dumped into the Mad River and it was loaded with tiny brookies. Every stream on that mountain was the same way.

 

[Trout Nazi]

That is so true of VT. We had a small stream flow past our old ski house that dumped into the Mad River and it was loaded with tiny brookies. Every stream on that mountain was the same way.

Bunch of streams that I fish in my area have all 3 species, so you get get the grand-slam. One stream I fish commonly gets brookies in the 12+ range. The White river is also starting to get some salmon. A couple of years ago Vermont fish and game tracked one of their tagged fish to someones freezer.

 

[brachycentrus]

and then there is this thing, which is just downright gigantic and also appears to be a wild fish

What's up with that Dorsal fin ? Seriously, used to go up to the NE Kingdom to fish. Get a canoe, a Delormes' and hit a bunch of Beaver ponds off the track. Lots of unfished water up there plus we used to stay on a farmers land where the Barton ran through it. Good spring steelhead runs on the Barton and Willoughby. Then they extended
I 91 which made it far easier to get up there, but the backwoods stuff is still good. The steelhead runs kind of faltered for a while, then became like the Salmon River and I quit that game.

 

[rangeleyflyfisher]

Great past topic for us local vermonsters


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