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The 2nd Amendment as clearly written

Future Fanatic said:
More on point, here is a quote by another President, Andrew Jackson:


"I don't think it's about more gun control, I grew up in the South with guns everywhere and we never shot anyone. This is about people who aren't taught the value of life. We need to stop deranged people from getting access to guns,"


Oh, wait a minute... That wasn't ANDREW Jackson, that was SAMUEL Jackson... Nevermind... My bad....

Shooting: Samuel Jackson says fewer guns aren't necessarily the answer - Los Angeles Times
Click to expand...

There are arguments on both sides of the issue.

I believe the recent Supreme Court decisions support your view, and offer a reasonable interpretation of the Second Amendment that I disagree with...
 
CTobias said:
» Decorated Combat Veteran Arrested: Charged With 5 Felonies For Possession of AR Magazines Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
Click to expand...

I've wondered about things like that.
After my active duty stint, I spent some time in the active reserve...
on one occasion, my unit was about to get some "civil disturbance" training.
An officer from each company went to Fort Dix, the month before, for a briefing. I was one of them.

We were each issued a "special" shotgun (with bayonet) to bring back to our units.
By the time we got back, the arms room was closed and the guy with the key had gone home.
I was told to take it home and bring it to the training next month.

I don't remember the details, nor the model, but....
That bayonet was huge (about 16 in.)
The barrel was short.
It held more than 5 shells.

What would have happened if a cop had stopped me with it in my "civilian" car?
 
Last edited:
Pete said:
I've wondered about things like that.
After my active duty stint, I spent some time in the active reserve...
on one occasion, my unit was about to get some "civil disturbance" training.
An officer from each company went to Fort Dix, the month before, for a briefing. I was one of them.

We were each issued a "special" shotgun (with bayonet) to bring back to our units.
By the time we got back, the arms room was closed and the guy with the key had gone home.
I was told to take it home and bring it to the training next month.

I don't remember the details, nor the model, but....
That bayonet was huge (about 16 in.)
The barrel was short.
It held more than 5 shells.

What would have happened if a cop had stopped me with it in my "civilian" car?
Click to expand...

If the people keep allowing the government to roll over them. This will keep happening.
 
05079BCF-7E1E-4FDF-A22A-A49CAFF71151-1083-000000AD5DD63875_zpsc642b4da.jpg
 
"Follow along folks... You are expected to have an emotional connection with this and blindly agree that because this case is so tragic and involved children, you should give up your right to knowledge of police investigations. Look beyond the emotional component and ask why would this be done in this case. A case with national attention fOr inconsistencies, used to promote sweeping legislation before any facts were presented, and one in which no prosecution wold be compromised if we are to believe that the shooter is dead... Do you think that you should be prevented from finding out info on the Boston bombing? Maybe you should be shielded from finding out why the IRS targeted certain groups. Maybe you have no right to hear the details about the Donovan campaign investigation.... Keep it a secret, we can trust the police and politicians will do what's best right????"


This is the first comment to the article...besides the spelling errors, I think it a perfectly sarcastic response, and plainly expresses the intent of the government to shield the American people from reality...because we are waaayyyyy to stupid to understand such things.....really?!!?!

I call,horseshit...make it public...and please keep voting your party lines and re-electing arrogant bastards!!!
 
The Obama administration (and the left through their blind following) never lets a good crisis go to waste.

If this was about protecting kids, they would have outlawed swimming pools. Cause they kill more kids a year than any gun violence. But hey this is the facts from the CDC, their own agency.

I guess a kid dead by a gun is more special than a kid dead by a pool. More blood hey?
 
BrownChickenBrownTrout said:
The Obama administration (and the left through their blind following) never lets a good crisis go to waste.

If this was about protecting kids, they would have outlawed swimming pools. Cause they kill more kids a year than any gun violence. But hey this is the facts from the CDC, their own agency.

I guess a kid dead by a gun is more special than a kid dead by a pool. More blood hey?
Click to expand...

Exactly, the feds would also regulate cars and trucks to go no faster than the speed limit if it truly was about saving lives. We all have right to bear arms, none of us has a right to go 125 mph..... And, no... I am not in favor of regulating how fast cars can go...just making the point...
 
Or maybe, we should outlaw parents...

"Resnick said one out of every 33 homicides in the United States is the killing of a child under 18 by their parent, or between 250 and 300 of the country's killings each year. In a 2005 study, he found filicide to be the third-leading cause of death of American children ages 5 to 14."

That is, in order to save the kids, we should outlaw having them...
 
Leave it to Fox to make an issue of protecting the rights of some sick bastard who wants to see pictures of murdered children or listen to 911 calls of a dying victims screams. sick.
 
The problem with using local or state law to prevent gun violence in New York City is that 68 percent of the illegal guns recovered by the NYPD weren’t purchased in New York; they were trafficked from states where it’s easier to buy a gun — or as is usually the case, to buy a lotof guns at once
CTobias said:
Good thing NY has all those strict gun laws so criminals can't get guns. :nose-picking:


Mayhem in the city: 25 people shot in 48 hours* - NY Daily News
Click to expand...
 
fishhead said:
The problem with using local or state law to prevent gun violence in New York City is that 68 percent of the illegal guns recovered by the NYPD weren’t purchased in New York; they were trafficked from states where it’s easier to buy a gun — or as is usually the case, to buy a lotof guns at once
Click to expand...

I will need to see the sources and documentation for claim of 68% being trafficked in. The question is how many of those were LEGAL concealed permit holders. I am willing to be ZERO. So, what you really meant to say was, criminals don't pay attention to laws so gun laws make no sense except to restrict law abiding citizens.



I knew things were getting bad, but this?!!

Elementary School Beginning Toy Gun Turn-In Program
 
NYs laws are the second worst in the country. Trailing only behind California's. Youd think the people upstate would have some better representation.
 
Your argument about criminals not paying attention to laws, so gun laws make no sense is ridiculous. Following your convoluted logic, why have any laws at all? Silly Here's where Chicago guns come from. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/29/us/where-50000-guns-in-chicago-came-from.html?_r=0

CTobias said:
I will need to see the sources and documentation for claim of 68% being trafficked in. The question is how many of those were LEGAL concealed permit holders. I am willing to be ZERO. So, what you really meant to say was, criminals don't pay attention to laws so gun laws make no sense except to restrict law abiding citizens.



I knew things were getting bad, but this?!!

Elementary School Beginning Toy Gun Turn-In Program
Click to expand...
 
That's a great link from a liberal rag. Straw purchases are already illegal and we see how well that works out. One thing your little study fails to show is how many of those guns were stolen.

Criminals don't follow the laws to begin with.
 
Straw purchases are legal except in cases where the ultimate receiver of goods or services uses those goods or services in the commission of a crime with the prior knowledge of the straw purchaser. Impossible to prove. This is one of the loopholes in the gun laws that needs to be closed. I love the way you deny truth and rationalize.

CTobias said:
That's a great link from a liberal rag. Straw purchases are already illegal and we see how well that works out. One thing your little study fails to show is how many of those guns were stolen.

Criminals don't follow the laws to begin with.
Click to expand...
 
fishhead said:
Straw purchases are legal except in cases where the ultimate receiver of goods or services uses those goods or services in the commission of a crime with the prior knowledge of the straw purchaser. Impossible to prove. This is one of the loopholes in the gun laws that needs to be closed. I love the way you deny truth and rationalize.
Click to expand...


Fishhead I think the point is why create a law that is unenforcable to begin with. Your post states there is a loophole that needs to be closed. What exactly do you propose? Making all straw purchases illegal.
There are likely some common sense things that could be done but just as everyone rails against the NRA as too extremist in their views you have other groups and politicians who believe in severely restricting ones ability to own a firearm. In any event simply creating another law will not deter a criminal who has violent intentions.

A lot of people like to use England as an example when providing a model for gun laws. My former boss is a volunteer policeman in a semi rural area. The crime rate is through the roof. One of the worst in Europe. If you kill or injure a criminal who breaks into your house you are almost certainly going to be prosecuted.

I don't believe ctobias ever said we shouldn't have any gun laws so let's not create false arguments.
 
fishhead said:
Your argument about criminals not paying attention to laws, so gun laws make no sense is ridiculous. Following your convoluted logic, why have any laws at all? Silly Here's where Chicago guns come from. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/29/us/where-50000-guns-in-chicago-came-from.html?_r=0
Click to expand...

My cousin is a detective in the NYP, and the criminals aren't wielding high-end weapons like in the movies. 95% of the guns they have in lockup are crap imported knockoffs that you or I would never pay a dime for. Also, most of the violent crime, gang initiations, etc are committed with knives, screw drivers, etc. penalty is much lower getting caught with these. And he would rather work a shooting scene over a stabbing scene any day of the week because the stabbing scenes are absolute messes after after someone gets stabbed 30-40 times.
 
The crap knock off guns are the result of straw purchases, and yes, I think all straw purchases should be illegal and carry severe penalties. I have absolutely nothing against gun ownership by responsible owners for self defense and recreation. I don't buy into the paranoia that the government is about to enslave us and is planning to disarm its citizens as a first step, so universal background checks and registration of guns makes sense to me. I don't know about you, but I would rather face an asshole with a knife, than an asshole with a gun. By the same logic, I would rather have a gun to defend myself if necessary than a knife. I never implied that ctobias said we shouldn't have any gun laws.

Trout Nazi said:
My cousin is a detective in the NYP, and the criminals aren't wielding high-end weapons like in the movies. 95% of the guns they have in lockup are crap imported knockoffs that you or I would never pay a dime for. Also, most of the violent crime, gang initiations, etc are committed with knives, screw drivers, etc. penalty is much lower getting caught with these. And he would rather work a shooting scene over a stabbing scene any day of the week because the stabbing scenes are absolute messes after after someone gets stabbed 30-40 times.
Click to expand...
 
My favorite argument of my opponents is based on the distinction between law abiding gun owners, and non law-abiding gun owners.

It is a convenient argument, to categorize all gun crime as committed by non law-abiding gun owners.

Isn't that always going to be true? That the ones that commit the crimes are not law abiding?

So who cares to distinguish law abiding from non law-abiding gun owning nut jobs?
 
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