Welcome to NEFF

Sign up for a new account today, or log on with your old account!

Give us a try!

Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!

Smallmouth Bass / Upper Delaware River / Jim Serio

_ritter_

Gadfly
To all,
An article appeared this past week in The River Reporter (Narrowsburg, New York) regarding the smallmouth bass fishery in the Upper Delaware River.

Mr. Serio, a frequent poster of this board, is quoted in the article as saying:

"Jim Serio, chairman of the Delaware River Foundation and also a guide, sees it differently. He said the reason {the smallmouth bass fishing} fishing is better now is due to higher and more consistent flows. He {Mr. Serio} wrote in an email, “Much of this flow is natural, as the floods and full reservoirs are testament to. The other regime change that has resulted in better and more consistent flows is the ‘Spill Mitigation Release’ (SMR) program we have had the last couple of winters. Low winter flows are the main reason that fish die in this system.”

In reality, smallmouth thrive when the water temperatures are in the 70's - not the 50's or 60's - which is what the main stem UDR has been receiving south of Lordville - and for many months - south of Hancock in 2006 and 2007.

So, how Mr. Serio thinks that "higher and more consisitent flows" - as he stated in this interview - have led to better smallmouth bass fishing is bewildering unless he wants to confuse others with this spin promoted his party's line.

What we have had during the past two summers is really lower flows - compared to year's past - which, in turn, have led to warmer water reaching the upper portions of the Main Stem UDR when in the past they ran higher and cooler.

Kindest regards,
Tony Ritter
Narrowsburg, NY
::Fishing Report for the Upper Delaware River - Catskills - Poconos:: New York and Pennsylvania
--------------------------


Online at:

Smallmouth bass in the Upper Delaware

Smallmouth bass in the Upper Delaware

National magazine says the river is full of them

By FRITZ MAYER

UPPER DELAWARE VALLEY — If you’re looking to catch a smallmouth bass, the Upper Delaware River is one of the best places to find them. That’s according to the July issue of the sportsman’s magazine Field & Stream.

The magazine reports that the river is one of the top five in the United States for fishing for smallmouth. The other four are Maine’s Androscoggin River, West Virginia’s New River, the John Day River in Oregon and Minnesota’s Upper Mississippi River.

The magazine explained, “The Upper Delaware River’s reputation as an excellent smallmouth bass fishery has until now, remained mostly local knowledge. From late June to the end of October the smallmouth bass is king. The deep pools, riffles, small rapids and deep runs of the Delaware provide an ideal home for these river residents.”

Most fishing writers agree that smallmouth are fun to catch because, pound for pound, they are the hardest fighting fresh-water fish in the country.

There is a perception among some in the river community that smallmouth in the river were almost nonexistent five or six years ago. So is this something new, or have the smallmouth always been plenty and active?

Narrowsburg fishing guide Tony Ritter said the fish are definitely more plentiful than in years past, and his customers can catch up to 50 fish in a day on the river, many of them smallmouth. His theory is that because the New York City reservoirs are releasing less cold water from the reservoirs, the river is reverting to the way it used to be before the reservoirs were built in the ’50s and ’60s, which is a habitat more favorable for smallmouth.

Jim Serio, chairman of the Delaware River Foundation and also a guide, sees it differently. He said the reason fishing is better now is due to higher and more consistent flows. He wrote in an email, “Much of this flow is natural, as the floods and full reservoirs are testament to. The other regime change that has resulted in better and more consistent flows is the ‘Spill Mitigation Release’ (SMR) program we have had the last couple of winters. Low winter flows are the main reason that fish die in this system.”

He added, “The size [of the smallmouth] does seem to have improved the last couple of years. Better survival due to better winter flows? That would be my guess.”

(The origins of the SMR program, which is administered by the Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC), date to April 2004, and the program is due to be changed or replaced in the coming months by the controversial, complex and much-debated Flexible Flow Management Plan (FFMP). According to the DRBC website, an informational hearing and public comment period on the revised FFMP, scheduled for August 14, was cancelled because information regarding related regulatory changes was not yet available. A new meeting and public comment period will be scheduled once the DRBC has the necessary information.)

Dave Angyal of the New York State Department of Conservation said the rule for the size of smallmouth that can be kept by anglers was changed in the spring of 2006. Before that, any fish larger than nine inches could be kept. Now the size limit is 12 inches; anything smaller must be thrown back. However, he said, there have been no studies done to determine whether this has resulted in more or larger smallmouth in the river.
 
Hi Ritter,

I, of course, respectfully disagree with you.

The bass that you see this summer did not just appear out of thin air this year because of warmer water this summer.

I believe they have survived and thrived the last 3 years due to the high natural flows we experienced on the Delaware. (High flow, not high release)This of course has been supplemented by Revision 7 and Revision 9 releases which have kept the minimum flows much higher in the winter.

Higher temperatures would of course favor bass over trout, but not significantly below Lordville. The average temperature this summer (July and August) at Callicoon was 22.54 degrees celsius. In 2006 the summer average temperature was 22.02 degrees celsuis. I doubt the fish noticed much difference.

The only difference you see at Callicoon between the two years is a major flow difference in the winter (December and January). This past winter the flow did not drop below 2000 cfs while the average flow at Callicoon the previous winter was only about half that!!!!! This was a direct result of Revision 9 and releases nearly all winter of 1000 cfs from Cannonsville.

Raising the size limit will also probably be responsible for seeing more and bigger bass in the future.

In reality, who cares, the fishing is good, so just enjoy it.

Jim
 
We are not seeing more and larger smallmouth bass in the Upper Delaware for any of the above reasons. The lower and mid sections of the Upper Delaware has always been excellent smallmouth habitat. I believe the increase in the average size, as Dave Angyal, of the NYDEC speculates, is due to the size limit increase. The article that appeared in the July 2007 issue of Field & Stream Magazine wasn't written or dreamed up in June of 2007, lead time is much, much longer than that, so their observations had to be made prior than any flow plan could have had an affect.

If the purpose and benefit of the flow plans is to enhance a warm water fishery then the plan is greatly flawed. The bass have done well down river of Callicoon since they were first introduced in the 1870's. In the past two to three years there has been a noticable population growth of smallmouths upriver of Callicoon. I've had some excellent bass fishing this current year from Buckingham to Callicoon. The water temperatures have been favorable for the bass to expand their range


Also, the article from the River Reporter is greatly flawed. They quote the magazine as saying, "The magazine explained, “The Upper Delaware River’s reputation as an excellent smallmouth bass fishery has until now, remained mostly local knowledge. From late June to the end of October the smallmouth bass is king. The deep pools, riffles, small rapids and deep runs of the Delaware provide an ideal home for these river residents.”

That was not in the article, or anything even close. The article simply named the Upper Delaware on a list of what they consider to be the top five smallmouth bass rivers in the country.

Kilgour Farms first made mention of this fishery on this forum: http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBullet...per-delaware-rated-top-five-field-stream.html

Joe D.
 
In parts...
===============

{serio}
"I, of course, respectfully disagree with you.

I believe they {smallmouth bass} have survived and thrived the last 3 years due to the high natural flows we experienced on the Delaware. (High flow, not high release)This of course has been supplemented by Revision 7 and Revision 9 releases which have kept the minimum flows much higher in the winter."

---------

Jim, - my point was to inform this board of the article that appeared last week in The River Reporter about smallmouth bass on the Upper Delaware River in which you and I are quoted.

You rebut my reasoning as why the smallmouth bass fishery has improved on this river.

The fact is that the water on the main stem UDR has gotten warmer during the summer months over the past few years.

This has increased the length of the smallmouth bass fishery north of Callicoon, New York.

In the past, many sportswriters during the 70's, 80's and 90's - would say that Callicoon was the cut off zone on the UDR. Warmwater species to the south - coldwater species to the north during the summer months - or something to that effect.

In the past there were more coldwater releases from the NYC reservoirs during the summer to extend the coldwater zone to Hankins - or maybe Callicoon.

Fact: The coldwater zone on this river has decreased during the summer months of June through August during the past few years - maybe as far down to Buckingham/Lordville - realistically - as far down as Stockport.

I stated in the article that, in my opinion, which I can back up with fact, that the main stem UDR is reverting back to what it was before the construction of the New York City reservoirs in the 50's and 60's - which was a warmwater fishery.

Or better - that the "tailwater coldwater" fishery that so many anglers now read about has been shortened by 10 to 15 miles during the summer and the smallmouth are now finding that area in their comfort zone with water temps in the mid 60's during the am and in the mid 70's by 6:00pm.

The structure for bass on this river is the same near Narrowsburg as it is in Long Eddy - in Dark Eddy - in Bouchouxville - etc. Submerged boulders, drop offs with plenty of forage such as hellgrammites, stoneflies and minnows for the bass.

What has changed is that the water on the main stem UDR is now consistently warmer during the summer months due to a cut back in coldwater releases that make its' way into the main stem.

Please refer to the USGS tables from the 1970's, 80's and early 90's and compare them to the past three years as far as June through August water temp for Callicoon on the main stem UDR.

You'll see that the main stem from Callicoon north to Lordville was much cooler - sometimes as much as 15 degrees - consistently - ten or twenty years ago.

That makes a world of difference to smallmouth bass - and also to trout.

Sadly, it seems that your explanation in the article in The River Reporter is an attempt to push your plan and confuse readers.

Better to ask a few guides that charter float trips on this river - and those that have more than ten years experience on this river - who specifically charter for bass in the summer months and they'll tell you that the bass fishing on this river has improved not only due to the fact most - if not all - of their clients release their catch but that the warmwater zone has increased due to a decrease of coldwater into the main stem at Hancock.

===========

and

===========

{Joe D.}

"If the purpose and benefit of the flow plans is to enhance a warm water fishery then the plan is greatly flawed. The bass have done well down river of Callicoon since they were first introduced in the 1870's. In the past two to three years there has been a noticable population growth of smallmouths upriver of Callicoon. I've had some excellent bass fishing this current year from Buckingham to Callicoon. The water temperatures have been favorable for the bass to expand their range."
============

I'm sure you have - due to paltry coldwater releases into the main stem during the summer months.

Put another way - I don't think that you'd have the success with smallmouth from Buckingham to Callicoon if this was August of 1997.

If it was August of 1997 - you'd be seeing sulphurs, BWO's and Iso's on that stretch with a few rising trout - and the water would be about 63 in the afternoon and about 58 in the morning.

Kindest regards,
Tony Ritter
Narrowsburg, NY
::Fishing Report for the Upper Delaware River - Catskills - Poconos:: New York and Pennsylvania
 
I have to say Ritter is right.

The 90’s were a great time to be alive and fishing the UDR from Lordville to Callicoon. The August ISO’s would start about 3 with all kinds of other bugs joining in about 6, no people, just me and Camparadun.

There were always a few smallies around but not like there is now.

Caster
 
I have to say Ritter is right.

The 90’s were a great time to be alive and fishing the UDR from Lordville to Callicoon. The August ISO’s would start about 3 with all kinds of other bugs joining in about 6, no people, just me and Camparadun.

There were always a few smallies around but not like there is now.

Caster

I was with you all the way up to the time you mentioned you were with Comparadun.
 
Three different GUIDES with three DIFFERENT reasons for a couple of good years of bass fishing! Whose theory is correct? Nothing that a few tens of thousands of dollars and a couple of years of research couldn't figure out.

Each has the answer, but it means everyone else is wrong. That is of course, unless all three of these factors are at work and everyone is right...

But, boy oh boy, does this not illustrate the problem of ANY question raised about ANY aspect of the D's health and well being?

The D is ******.
 
{John / Future Fanatic writes:}

"Three different GUIDES with three DIFFERENT reasons for a couple of good years of bass fishing! Whose theory is correct? Nothing that a few tens of thousands of dollars and a couple of years of research couldn't figure out."
==========

I don't believe Mr. Serio guides for specifically for smallmouth bass on the Upper Delaware River.

For the most part - most of his charters have been and are - for trout - on the EB, WB and upper part of the main stem.

It would have better for him when approached by the writer to defer to other licensed guides who have - and are - guiding for smallmouth bass since they have a better undertsnading of why the river has changed.

Mr. Serio has been disingenuous and has taken this opportunity with the media to advance his agenda. Mr. Serio states that 'higher flows have led to better bass fishing' - is incorrect.

================

{John / Future Fanatic writes:}

"Each has the answer, but it means everyone else is wrong. That is of course, unless all three of these factors are at work and everyone is right..."
===============

The facts are that the upper main stem UDR is warmer than in year's past during the summer months of June through August/September.

Why?

There is less coldwater coming into the main stem at Hancock.

Thus the smallmouth bass are relocating to areas that are suitable for them.

These are facts.

=================

{John / Future Fanatic writes:}

"But, boy oh boy, does this not illustrate the problem of ANY question raised about ANY aspect of the D's health and well being?

The D is ******."

=================

I'm just observing what has transpired on the upper part of main stem of the Upper Delaware River during the past few summers John.

Kindest reagards,
Tony Ritter
Narrowsburg, NY
 
So I wonder what happend when Jim and TOny see eachother on the water. Anyone want to be there when they both pull out at Buckingham one night? We could sell tickets and refreshments.

I think the warm water is moving upstream and the bass are comming with it. That's also why there are more rainbows in the WB. Just an opinion.
 
Hi tompg,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I will continue to refer people who want to bass fish to Tony Ritter as I respect his ability on the lower river. I do not have the interest and it is a long drive home at night.

The trout fishing and guiding on the upper river I find much more satisfying. It is a personal preference.

Don't get me wrong. I love smallmouths!!! They are still the hardest fighting fish pound for pound that live in fresh water. I have fished for them longer than trout. I go up to the St. Lawrence River every year and grew up fishing for smallmouths on Lake Erie. The Susquehanna River is also a bass fishing trip I try to make once or twice a year. Heck, I even wrote a computer model in graduate school to model the effect of a nuclear power plant on bass spawning. Just for the record, the model was written in FORTRAN, an ancient language known by very few people at this time!!!!!

I of course take every opportunity to push what I feel is a better plan for the management of the Delaware River!! I am not shy about advocating for something I believe in.

Hope you can all get some time to get out and fish the next couple of weeks.

Jim
 
Jim and Tony for that matter,

I was just trying to have a little fun. Hope I did not insight any ill feelings. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.

Tom
 
The Section of the the Upper Delaware that appeared in a list in the July 2007 issue of Field & Stream Magazine is specifically stated as that portion down river of Callicoon. I don't have any scientific data to why it has improved over the past few years (it's always been really good) and can only speculate.

Much of the improvement has been in the average size of the fish. This corresponds pretty directly with a size limit increase. I've also seen an increase in the number of bass caught per day, but I'm not sure if this is indicative of a true population increase, or is due to the fish being more concentrated in the lower flows above the Lackawaxen River.

It appears that this thread has evolved into a discussion of the smallmouth basses expanded range in the upper river, rather than the virtues of an excellent downriver bass fishery.

I have noticed higher catch rates in the bass fishing upriver of Callicoon, even into the lower West Branch. I guess this could be an upriver expansion or it could be a seasonal migration of sorts from the East Branch smallmouths. In either case, it would only happen due to more favorable bass habitat.

More warm water, more warm water fishes. More cold water, more cold water fishes. Really not too hard to figure out.

Joe
 
Back
Top